BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 1

[roach]

we have a solar twin???

 

[PacificBoy]

Incorrect.

The argument is that the opinions of experts are worth more, and that if you disagree with an expert you need to pause and reflect, because your odds of being correct are small.

That is true for art, for evolution vs creationism, for medicine vs homeopathy, for civil engineering vs lego blocks, for big bang theory vs young earth geology, et cetera.

I agree that the opinions of experts carry more weight in a regular capacity or sphere -- public, professional, academic, etc., but I think in the bubble of an online discussion of a movie, Waid's points, while undoubtedly coming from a place of knowledge, are there to be argued and challenged like any other.

Highly informed be that as it may, it's just another informed fanboy's opinion on a movie.

 

[DA_Champion]

Secondly, just because their son still appears yellow, doesn't mean it's
a. the same age as our sun
b. giving off the same frequency of radiation as our sun.

I've got a PhD in astronomy, and you've got multiple viewings of Man of Steel and possibly the documentary on black holes known as JJ Abrams' Star Trek, so of course you'd argue with me.

Let me hold your hand: if Krypton's sun is a yellow star, then its radiation will be nearly the same. That's the way it works. Temperature/color/radiation map onto radiation very, very sharply.

 

[DA_Champion]

^ Or, they didn't expect smarties to actually OBSERVE the film

They had something functional before. Making Krypton's sun into a solar twin is, as far as I can tell, an invention of Goyer/Snyder/Nolan. What's the point of this stupid invention, other than to say one thing and show another?

 

[Marvin]

Take this:
"The argument is that the opinions of experts are worth more, and that if you disagree with an expert you need to pause and reflect, because your odds of being correct are small."

And then apply it to this:

Nolan is the only one of the three who has an exemplary track record. He wasn't interesting in making the movie, as he farmed it out to to other directors (Affleck among them, I'd guess there were more) and eventually settled on Zach Snyder once the people higher on the list declined the opportunity to direct Goyer's script.

This was a great decision by Nolan. He's made a lot of money, and his reputation as an artist is completely unaffected.

It's quite the dance, but eventually it get's tired.

 

[DA_Champion]

It's quite the dance

Nolan wasn't the director of this movie, and he didn't write the screenplay.

That's not a dance, you can look that up yourself.

 

[PacificBoy]

It is a McGuffin but I thought cleverly gave it a weight by it being fused with Kal's blood and making him the ultimate Kryptonian.

Agree. I thought the setup, (magic skull, multiple expositions) made the codex rather contrived for a McGuffin, compare with, say, The Avengers' tesseract (unlimited energy source), but it can go further as a plot device ("being fused with Kal's blood and making him the ultimate Kryptonian") should it be referenced again.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Also what happened to the supposed concept and theme the movie was meant to run with? You know the whole nature vs nurture? We have Faora spout that horrible line about evolution and that was that.

 

[roach]

Take this:
"The argument is that the opinions of experts are worth more, and that if you disagree with an expert you need to pause and reflect, because your odds of being correct are small."

And then apply it to this:


It's quite the dance, but eventually it get's tired.

Let me sum it up for you:

"I hated Man of Steel. Anyone who agrees with me is right. Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong."

Thats what it boils down to.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Agree. I thought the setup, (magic skull, multiple expositions) made the codex rather contrived for a McGuffin, compare with, say, The Avengers' tesseract (unlimited energy source), but it can go further as a plot device ("being fused with Kal's blood and making him the ultimate Kryptonian") should it be referenced again.

You guys are just making stuff up now, ultimate kryptonian? What the hell. Have you guys seen the directors cut or something?

 

[PacificBoy]

You guys are just making stuff up now, ultimate kryptonian? What the hell. Have you guys seen the directors cut or something?

"Ultimate Krytonian" was Krumm's line, but I took it on as a fairly valid take on the codex's significance.

 

[Marvin]

I've got a PhD in astronomy, and you've got multiple viewings of Man of Steel and possibly the documentary on black holes known as JJ Abrams' Star Trek, so of course you'd argue with me.

Let me hold your hand: if Krypton's sun is a yellow star, then its radiation will be nearly the same. That's the way it works. Temperature/color/radiation map onto radiation very, very sharply.

"nearly the same" isn't the same as "the same".
I also understand basic english.

"There son is younger and brighter than ours"
Use your phd or whatever piece of paper you want to wave around and prove this isn't true as the movie states it. While your at it, prove our sun isn't larger than their as well, given size is a huge factor is apparently brightness.

A minimal change in radiation frequency isn't the sole fuel for supermans powers, as the movie showed on multiple occasions.

 

[PacificBoy]

Also what happened to the supposed concept and theme the movie was meant to run with? You know the whole nature vs nurture? We have Faora spout that horrible line about evolution and that was that.

Yeah, that line was cool as heck, "You are weak, Son of El, unsure of yourself. The fact that you possess a sense of morality, and we do not, gives us an evolutionary advantage", but it was just that -- a cool, throwaway line.

You'd have expected Clark's "sense of morality" to be used again him by Zod in the end fight. Where was the "evolutionary advantage" in the fight sequence?

 

[LordofhouseEl]

"Ultimate Krytonian" was Krumm's line, but I took it on as a fairly valid take on the codex's significance.

There is no reason to take it as anything, it wasn't implied that it granted him any extra benefits. Hell if we go with what the movie presented Zod was the ultimate kryptonian as he mastered all his abilities in a few hours while it took Clark 33 years.

 

[PacificBoy]

There is no reason to take it as anything, it wasn't implied that it granted him any extra benefits. Hell if we go with what the movie presented Zod was the ultimate kryptonian as he mastered all his abilities in a few hours while it took Clark 33 years.

Zod's physical prowess is portrayed inconsistency. The whole powering up scene is supposed to outline how powerful he's getting, but not once did he gain an advantage over Clark.

And he lost to Jor-El in a fair fight! He's clearly not the "ultimate kryptonian", when it comes to combat at least. He's merely a master in "mastering his senses".

 

[LordofhouseEl]

"nearly the same" isn't the same as "the same".
I also understand basic english.

"There son is younger and brighter than ours"
Use your phd or whatever piece of paper you want to wave around and prove this isn't true as the movie states it. While your at it, prove our sun isn't larger than their as well, given size is a huge factor is apparently brightness.

A minimal change in radiation frequency isn't the sole fuel for supermans powers, as the movie showed on multiple occasions.

And unto that point Kryptons atmosphere hinders his abilities even when in closer proximity to the yellow sun? A new and unneeded addition to the Superman lore.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

Zod's physical prowess is portrayed inconsistency. The whole powering up scene is supposed to outline how powerful he's getting, but not once did he gain an advantage over Clark.

And he lost to Jor-El in a fair fight! He's clearly not the "ultimate kryptonian", when it comes to combat at least.

I wasn't being serious I stated that to further highlight inconsistencies in the movie.

 

[PacificBoy]

I wasn't being serious I stated that to further highlight inconsistencies in the movie.

And I was being serious in highlighting the inconsistencies in the end fight.

 

[Marvin]

Nolan wasn't the director of this movie, and he didn't write the screenplay.

That's not a dance, you can look that up yourself.

It's a dance when you clearly state that the opinions of professions are worth more than your own, then you go on to describe just what you think Goyer and Snyder are if not professionals.

" if you disagree with an expert you need to pause and reflect, because your odds of being correct are small"
Sorry but you can't have it both ways friend.

Furthermore, Nolan was an executive producer, that means he didn't just sign off on everything, he endorsed it and was given last word. Makes sense given his story credit. It means he"the professional and celebrated film maker and writer with comic book adaptation experience" endorsed it, where Waid "the mostly celebrated comic book writer" did not endorse the film.

Like I said, it's a tricky dance to stand by your words when they are applied elsewhere.

 

[Marvin]

Let me sum it up for you:

"I hated Man of Steel. Anyone who agrees with me is right. Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong."

Thats what it boils down to.

I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt, it can't be that simple.

 

[LordofhouseEl]

And I was being serious in highlighting the inconsistencies in the end fight.

And I am sure you was since the film is full of inconsistencies.

 

[roach]

It's a dance when you clearly state that the opinions of professions are worth more than your own, then you go on to describe just what you think Goyer and Snyder are if not professionals.

" if you disagree with an expert you need to pause and reflect, because your odds of being correct are small"
Sorry but you can't have it both ways friend.

Furthermore, Nolan was an executive producer, that means he didn't just sign off on everything, he endorsed it and was given last word. Makes sense given his story credit. It means he"the professional and celebrated film maker and writer with comic book adaptation experience" endorsed it, where Waid "the mostly celebrated comic book writer" did not endorse the film.

Like I said, it's a tricky dance to stand by your words when they are applied elsewhere.

Not his own words...oh snap

 

[Marvin]

And unto that point Kryptons atmosphere hinders his abilities even when in closer proximity to the yellow sun? A new and unneeded addition to the Superman lore.

unneeded?
Didn't know you were a DC editor.

And yes, if kryptonite can do such things no reason to start questioning the internal sci fi now.

 

[PacificBoy]

And I am sure you was since the film is full of inconsistencies.

My main gripe really is the end fight with Zod. Zod's physical prowess, warrior status wasn't consistent throughout the movie, so it made the stakes much less gripping than it should have been.

I mean, Clark fended off TWO Kryptonians in Smallville while doing showing concern, saving the people. So why couldn't he have been made to do the same in Metropolis, against a so-so warrior in Zod?

Inconsistent strength portrayal.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I agree that the opinions of experts carry more weight in a regular capacity or sphere -- public, professional, academic, etc., but I think in the bubble of an online discussion of a movie, Waid's points, while undoubtedly coming from a place of knowledge, are there to be argued and challenged like any other.

Highly informed be that as it may, it's just another informed fanboy's opinion on a movie.

I don't know. I would think that fans have a greater understanding on what films honor their favorite character. If Mark Waid doesn't think it does, then it's his opinion.

But I do think something is miss when Waid AND Morrison have mixed to poor feelings about the film, with Bryne not seeming to like the film, though he thought ending had a nice tone to it. On the other hand, JB tends to be REALLY whiny and rude in general.