DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 1

[Kurosawa]

I can' take this post seriously .

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. I know Wonder Woman's history, I know the ups and mostly downs of the series, and I know that the warrior thing has been tried and pushed for 25 years now and it has failed to bring an audience. There are things that aren't to my taste-like the X-Men becoming nothing but Wolverine and his little mutie sidekicks or supergrimdark Batgod Batman, but I cannot argue with their success. I don't like them but they sell, sell, sell. But things like warrior Wonder Woman and farmboy Clark Kent-is-the-real-person Superman I CAN point to as proven failures, as their declines on the sales charts have shown over and over. Facts are facts, and the fact is the warrior Wonder Woman has been a proven loser for 25 years now. The target audience for that-male comics fans-have no interest in it, or they would buy it. The correct audience for it is LGBT fans and people who get into the same kinds of things that LGBT fans are into. They need the GaGa audience if Wonder Woman is to be anything but a comic that is published due to legal arrangements with the Marston estate.

That "decline" and "failure" is all your opinion there, buddy. I'd much rather read the modern depiction of Wonder Woman than that near-smut level of sexism that Marston pumped out.

And when you say target "people like Mysti" I take it you mean "female", right?

It's not my opinion because I can point to over 40 years of poor sales for Wonder Woman to prove it. From her creaton to Marston's death, the character sold. In the 50's, she maintained solid sales, mostly because Peter was still doing the art and Robert Kanigher was an excellent writer. From the late 60's on, she has changed directions often and has declined. As I said before, I don't like Wolverine but how can I argue against his success? I can't.

By "People like Mysti" I of course mean either LGBT fans or people who are into very sexualized and open culture. I certainly don't mean it as any disrespect to her, as I completely and totally support her right to live as she wishes. Consenting adults should be able to do as they wish and I completely support the LGBT community and feel they should never be discriminated against in any way. The GaGa audience is who they need to target for Wonder Woman is my point.

 

[SuperFerret]

Ah, so you want to gay up Wonder Woman in an attempt to attract those poor saps who can't define themselves beyond their sexuality. Yeah, I'd rather see a Wonder Woman who's an actual character, not something that's just pandering to a minority group for sales (which should be highly offensive to anyone of that group).

 

[The Batman]

.....makes perfect sense to me, even if i disagree slightly.

I'm sorry, trashing something just cause its old is just as ******ed as being stuck in the past.

 

[Anubis]

That's your assumption. Could be we trash it because, you know, we just don't like it.

 

[The Batman]

I agree with Kuro in that WW should try to appeal to a different demographic, not necessarily LGBT groups, but the type of female readers who buy manga and shop at Barnes and Noble. Catering to a male audience isnt doing her much favors, tbh

Also, WW already has a large LGBT following. Its just a matter of getting more people to pick up the books.

 

[Charlie Boy]

Ah, so you want to gay up Wonder Woman in an attempt to attract those poor saps who can't define themselves beyond their sexuality. Yeah, I'd rather see a Wonder Woman who's an actual character, not something that's just pandering to a minority group for sales (which should be highly offensive to anyone of that group).

Mysti would buy the hell out of that book.

 

[Anubis]

I agree with Kuro in that WW should try to appeal to a different demographic, not necessarily LGBT groups, but the type of female readers who buy manga and shop at Barnes and Noble. Catering to a male audience isnt doing her much favors, tbh

Funny thing....so do I.

But I also think the the industry will go nowhere unless they can appeal to that group in general. Not just for WW, but everybody. That's gonna require they actually, you know, move on instead of regress every couple of decades.

 

[Kurosawa]

Ah, so you want to gay up Wonder Woman in an attempt to attract those poor saps who can't define themselves beyond their sexuality. Yeah, I'd rather see a Wonder Woman who's an actual character, not something that's just pandering to a minority group for sales (which should be highly offensive to anyone of that group).

I want Wonder Woman to succeed. Superbadass snarling warrior chix Wonder Woman has been tried and it has failed. The only Wonder Woman that ever sold in huge numbers (both in sales numbers and in terms of market share) was the very bizarre and freaky bondage-laced original. It outsold Superman, Batman and Captain Marvel at times. Show me another way to make the character connect with people and I'd be all for it. So far they've tried generic superhero, warrior chik, and Emma Peel ripoff and they've all failed. What worked was bizarre stories and worlds and heightened sexuality and bondage.

I mean, does anyone think this new Wonder Woman with the second new costume in a year and continuing the old grim and gritty warrior bs will sell? We all know it won't. They'll print a Wonder Woman book because when they bought the character outright from the Marston estate the requirement to keep a WW title going was obviously maintained, and that is the only reason. It's not like anyone actually buys the damn title.

 

[SuperFerret]

That's your assumption. Could be we trash it because, you know, we just don't like it.

This.

Mysti would buy the hell out of that book.

I know.




Kuro, you're pointless to talk to.

 

[Kurosawa]

That's your assumption. Could be we trash it because, you know, we just don't like it.

I hate Wolverine but obviously I'm in the massive minority because the character sells. Warrior Wonder Woman has failed. It's time they move on to something else, and they need to look at what actually has worked in the character's history and update that.

 

[Anubis]

I agree with you. We were talking about how Goldenage stuff sucks though.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Maybe a little more Princess Leia and a little less Xena. But I do like that she's strong. That must stay.

 

[Kurosawa]

I agree with you. We were talking about how Goldenage stuff sucks though.

That's irrelevant and just an attempt to flamebait me. Sorry, not interested.

 

[Anubis]

I still say the biggest hurdle WW has is that the current crop of comic fans just don't like female heroes.

 

[Franklin Richards]

She's great in an ensemble though. No Justice League Prime would be complete without her.

 

[SuperFerret]

I hate Wolverine but obviously I'm in the massive minority because the character sells. Warrior Wonder Woman has failed. It's time they move on to something else, and they need to look at what actually has worked in the character's history and update that.

Sigh. Trying one last time.


Why don't you like Wolverine? Is it because he's basically a pandering to the lowest common denominator one-dimensional excuse for a character now?

Hell, don't you HATE modern Superman because they "Parker-fied" him to help sales?

Do you even READ your own posts!?

I mean, come on!

 

[Kurosawa]

She's great in an ensemble though. No Justice League Prime would be complete without her.

She would have just been a team book character for 40 years or more now if it wasn't for legal obligations.

 

[Anubis]

That's irrelevant and just an attempt to flamebait me. Sorry, not interested.

Hey, you quoted me. Go back and read the context of that statement. That's what we were talking about. The Batman, Super Ferret, and myself.

But yes, irrelevant. I think that in this instance, sure, they should go back and try out the original Marston format with WW. Like you said, everything else hasn't worked, this couldn't f**k things up any more, right? I mean unless the guy writing it f**ks it up and that never happens.

Personally, I liked Rucka's WW best, but nobody bought it. I think that was mostly cuz fanboys today are chauvinistic *****e nozzels, and wouldn't know a good comic if it crawled up in their lap and bit em in the no no area.

 

[Kurosawa]

Sigh. Trying one last time.


Why don't you like Wolverine? Is it because he's basically a pandering to the lowest common denominator one-dimensional excuse for a character now?

Hell, don't you HATE modern Superman because they "Parker-fied" him to help sales?

Do you even READ your own posts!?

I mean, come on!

I wish you would read my posts. Maybe you'd learn something about the history of comics.

I never liked Wolverine much and once they started cramming him down everyone's throat, I came to hate him. But I cannot argue against the character's success. I can't argue against Batgod's success either. But I can argue against warrior Wonder Woman and Marvelized Superman because I can point to actual numbers, you know, FACTS and show that these tactics have failed to sell comics.

 

[Kurosawa]

Hey, you quoted me. Go back and read the context of that statement. That's what we were talking about. The Batman, Super Ferret, and myself.

But yes, irrelevant. I think that in this instance, sure, they should go back and try out the original Marston format with WW. Like you said, everything else hasn't worked, this couldn't f**k things up any more, right? I mean unless the guy writing it f**ks it up and that never happens.

Personally, I liked Rucka's WW best, but nobody bought it. I think that was mostly cuz fanboys today are chauvinistic *****e nozzels, and wouldn't know a good comic if it crawled up in their lap and bit em in the no no area.

The fact that they ran Rucka off is a damn shame. His Wonder Woman was really good and he took Batwoman from a token to a real character. Sad thing is, they really need writers now.

 

[Anubis]

I wish you would read my posts. Maybe you'd learn something about the history of comics.

I never liked Wolverine much and once they started cramming him down everyone's throat, I came to hate him. But I cannot argue against the character's success. I can't argue against Batgod's success either. But I can argue against warrior Wonder Woman and Marvelized Superman because I can point to actual numbers, you know, FACTS and show that these tactics have failed to sell comics.

Well, it's mostly stilted facts. There are all sorts of variables. Superman could easily be attributed to the Silver Age's crazy ass power increase.

Ask anybody that don't like Superman why, and they'll tell you he's too powerful. Not because he doesn't beat up crooked politicos and wife beaters.

 

[The Batman]

Forget WW, I just wish they hadnt taken the oval off bruces suit...AGAIN.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

That's because you don't know what you're talking about. I know Wonder Woman's history, I know the ups and mostly downs of the series, and I know that the warrior thing has been tried and pushed for 25 years now and it has failed to bring an audience. There are things that aren't to my taste-like the X-Men becoming nothing but Wolverine and his little mutie sidekicks or supergrimdark Batgod Batman, but I cannot argue with their success. I don't like them but they sell, sell, sell. But things like warrior Wonder Woman and farmboy Clark Kent-is-the-real-person Superman I CAN point to as proven failures, as their declines on the sales charts have shown over and over. Facts are facts, and the fact is the warrior Wonder Woman has been a proven loser for 25 years now. The target audience for that-male comics fans-have no interest in it, or they would buy it. The correct audience for it is LGBT fans and people who get into the same kinds of things that LGBT fans are into. They need the GaGa audience if Wonder Woman is to be anything but a comic that is published due to legal arrangements with the Marston estate.



It's not my opinion because I can point to over 40 years of poor sales for Wonder Woman to prove it. From her creaton to Marston's death, the character sold. In the 50's, she maintained solid sales, mostly because Peter was still doing the art and Robert Kanigher was an excellent writer. From the late 60's on, she has changed directions often and has declined. As I said before, I don't like Wolverine but how can I argue against his success? I can't.

By "People like Mysti" I of course mean either LGBT fans or people who are into very sexualized and open culture. I certainly don't mean it as any disrespect to her, as I completely and totally support her right to live as she wishes. Consenting adults should be able to do as they wish and I completely support the LGBT community and feel they should never be discriminated against in any way. The GaGa audience is who they need to target for Wonder Woman is my point.

I don't take your post seriously because you wanna gay up Wonder Woman and thats ****ing ******. Yeah you could appeal to the women fans but still not make it gay so you know straight dude like me can read. Dude get the hell out past. It's not 1940, Its 2011.
Seriously that whole I know her history,40 years, ********, I dont care, your opinion and I hate to say this because I shouldn't is stupid. You really wanna gay up Wonder Woman. Seriously

 

[Kurosawa]

Forget WW, I just wish they hadnt taken the oval off bruces suit...AGAIN.

The Batman books were soooo good before all this. I'm really gonna miss Dick as Batman and Batman, INC was just awesome. At least Vegeta Wayne is still around, but I guess him and Bruce will get into snarl contests now.

Dick and Damien were my favorite B&R team besides the original.

 

[SuperFerret]

I wish you would read my posts. Maybe you'd learn something about the history of comics.

I never liked Wolverine much and once they started cramming him down everyone's throat, I came to hate him. But I cannot argue against the character's success. I can't argue against Batgod's success either. But I can argue against warrior Wonder Woman and Marvelized Superman because I can point to actual numbers, you know, FACTS and show that these tactics have failed to sell comics.

I do read your posts, and you clearly care more about bull**** like history and sales than the characters themselves.

Like Anubis, I greatly enjoyed Rucka's WW, she was one of the best and most iconic portrayals of the character ever, and I don't give two ****s how little it sold. So you can take your FACTS and your history and your sales figures and shove it, because that's not what I give anything close to the D in "Damn" about. I care about the characters and I care about seeing them portrayed well.

For Wonder Woman, that's being a warrior for peace.

For Wolverine, that's being a heroic figure who fights his ruthless beast within.

For Superman, that's being a god-like man trying to be a man for himself and a god for everyone else.

For Batman, that's being a dedicated, no-nonsense person who uses his collected skills and wits to do a job normally reserved for superbeings (and can smile and have a friend or two like a normal person).

Just because something sells, doesn't make it good. And I would rather Wonder Woman crash and burn for eternity than have a bastardized version sell like hotcakes.


EDIT: Also, I regret now using the term "gay up", as TheIncredibleSk has made me look dumb by his interpretation of it. I did NOT mean it as "make it gay", I meant it as "pander to the gay community in a cheap attempt to boost sales" like some sort of rainbow die cut holographic cover. I personally don't care if something is "made gay" as long as it's not coming from a exploitative idea.