Arrow Dinah Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy Thread - Part 3

[SpideyVille]

Not every comic run portrays every character the same way, same with movies. To me the show is it's own entity with it's own story to tell and the characters have their own journey's.

The thing is they really dialed back on her character, and I don't know if it's just poor writing, or if it's true that Guggenheim just doesn't like Katie Cassidy.

In the first half of season one, they established that she at least had self defense training and could handle herself in a fight. By by season's end, they reduced her to the typical CW love triangles and she became a damsel in distress. Then season 2, her overall arc was quite redeeming based on where she started, but she was just written to be completely unlikable, while a badass Canary was introduced. But once she learned Oliver's secret, it opened up a new dynamic for them and her deciding to fight instead of going back to her addictions made her character look much better by season's end.

But for Laurel and Thea, I was as excited about them coming into this season as I was for Roy last season, and ultimately, their roles have been disappointing. I really do feel like they all need their individual arcs, kinda like how Felicity had her own arc last night and came out of it looking strong, without any interference from Oliver. But the fact that most characters aren't important until the plot calls for it shows that there's something not quite right with how the characters are being written and what the overall focus of it show is each season.

 

[Batsfan1]

I didn't like Laurel in seasons 1-2 b/c for me she was not likeable b/c of the way she was written, not b/c she was flawed. For instance, I like Jessica Jones and she has potentially way bigger personality issues and handicaps than Laurel ever did in seasons 1-2, but she was written in a way that also allowed me to see her vulnerabilities. Laurel was not written in a well-balanced way IMO that allowed me to connect with her - I was mostly stuck with her S1 bitter brittle (tho understandably and justifiably from an intellectual standpoint) angry personality or the S2 substance abuse where she felt sorry for herself and blamed others (normal behavior with addiction certainly).

She stopped being bitter by mid-season 1. She didn't blame others for her problems and had many scenes where she was vulnerable.

For instance, in the reality show on A/E Intervention, the producers always start out each episode by laying the groundwork to let audience know who the subject was before they turned into an addict and they also ground the subject in context of their family. Laurel didn't really get any of this or at least, IMO whatever she got was not done well.

We had a season of how she was before becoming an addict and with her family.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Batsfan1]

Not every comic run portrays every character the same way, same with movies. To me the show is it's own entity with it's own story to tell and the characters have their own journey's.

If they can't give an accurate portrayal of the character, then they might as well create their own characters and not use ones from previously established source material.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Primal Slayer]

Not every comic run portrays every character the same way, same with movies. To me the show is it's own entity with it's own story to tell and the characters have their own journey's.

Maybe I would be ok with it if the changes they made were really good but taking one of DCs most kickass females and basically depowering her isn't acceptable to me.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Such an upgrade by ditching that wig.

 

[Hunter Rider]

But for Laurel and Thea, I was as excited about them coming into this season as I was for Roy last season, and ultimately, their roles have been disappointing. I really do feel like they all need their individual arcs, kinda like how Felicity had her own arc last night and came out of it looking strong, without any interference from Oliver. But the fact that most characters aren't important until the plot calls for it shows that there's something not quite right with how the characters are being written and what the overall focus of it show is each season.

I think Laurel has found her spot nicely on the team this season, she challenges Oliver and also advises him, plus she was the one that was capable of getting through to Nyssa in last nights arc. Thea is still a rookie and getting into the whole hero gig, she has been crippled with the blood lust, but she was the driving force behind Oliver's Mayoral campaign and as had the start of an arc with Anarky who I think he will be her nemesis rather than Ollie's, in the same way The Calculator is Felclity's.

If they can't give an accurate portrayal of the character, then they might as well create their own characters and not use ones from previously established source material.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

You missed the point as usual.

Maybe I would be ok with it if the changes they made were really good but taking one of DCs most kickass females and basically depowering her isn't acceptable to me.

So it's more about the level of fighting she is capable of?

 

[Primal Slayer]

It is a part of it. A character with the most skill, the most history, probably one of the more level headed ones and they striped her of majority of it while making everyone around her more progressed.

They made her into probably one of the more realistic characters in the long run but threw away a lot.

 

[Batsfan1]

You missed the point as usual.

The point is that an adaption shouldn't use characters if they can't adapt them properly.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Hunter Rider]

It is a part of it. A character with the most skill, the most history, probably one of the more level headed ones and they striped her of majority of it while making everyone around her more progressed.

They made her into probably one of the more realistic characters in the long run but threw away a lot.

It's been a long way around with Laurel but I don't think they could have started her out as the uber badass, but I do think they should have had her go away with Nyssa for extensive training between seasons 3 and 4.

The point is that an adaption shouldn't use characters if they can't adapt them properly.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

Like I said, you missed the point.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

We could use a scene that have Laurel train in hand to hand combat. The writer seem to love original character more comic character beside Oliver that is developed and continuing to.

I think BC fans need to be patience as they have to wait some time until laurel is master hand to hand kiss ass female fighter. It will slowly get there perhaps "Sins of the father" start her role being more important?

 

[Paradox1]

It's been a long way around with Laurel but I don't think they could have started her out as the uber badass, but I do think they should have had her go away with Nyssa for extensive training between seasons 3 and 4.



Like I said, you missed the point.

The only reason I disagree with your Nyssa idea is that was Sara's route. Laurel in season 3 to be her own Canary she needed to do things her way. Which helped formed the Black Canary persona. Going to train with Nyssa would of thrown all that away. She needs her own trainer though someone that can take her fighting skills to a new level.

 

[Slade W]

Such an upgrade by ditching that wig.

Her look now is great too, but personally I preferred the wig. It was a more mysterious and alluring look, IMO.

 

[SpideyVille]

The wig was pointless for both Laurel and Sara.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It's been a long way around with Laurel but I don't think they could have started her out as the uber badass, but I do think they should have had her go away with Nyssa for extensive training between seasons 3 and 4.

I think having the charecter practice martial arts in s1 would've worked just like they have Patsy on JJ practicing it to relieve the anger she had for Oliver/Sara and her family crumbling. It should've definitely happened at the start of s2 after Laurel spent a year being in constant danger and losing Tommy.

 

[SpideyVille]

Honestly, I can handle the drug arc, it gave her character something to overcome, and it made sense considering Quentin became an alcoholic as well after Sara died.

What bothers me, and again, I can't help but feel like the BTS rumors are true, is that the series started, as it should have, with seeds being planted to imply that she could be a badass fighter. But as the season progressed, and Sara was introduced, it felt more and more like they were trying to push her out of the way. In a season that felt nearly perfect for the majority, Laurel was clearly the dark spot of season 2. I personally feel like she was redeemed in the end, but the majority of fans gave up on her and she has never truly recovered in their eyes.

What I would have done differently was kill Sara at the end of season 2, don't involve Malcolm or Thea, and have it be the League that killed her. Introduce Ra's, who ordered the kill. Nyssa walks away from the League, Malcolm agrees to help Oliver avenge Sara, and Laurel takes on fighting as a stress reliever, and also as a secret way of her looking for revenge while continuing to help others like Sara did, but she goes rogue and doesn't team up with Oliver until season's end. Don't do the secret stuff with Quentin. Basically speed up the good things from season 3 and remove the bad arcs altogether.

 

[Batsfan1]

Like I said, you missed the point.

There isn't a point to miss. The fact is they shouldn't do it of they can't do it right.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Laurel and Oliver shouldn't have known each other pre-island. Period. The writing team has kind of retconned it by making the flashbacks short as hell, and not mentioning Laurel at all in them. I think that's a mistake too, but whatever.

I just want Laurel to eventually become the BC of the comics (she is my favorite female street-leveler and they really screwed her over on the show) and maybe hint at DC's first couple starting up a relationship again.

 

[DeadFan]

Laurel and Oliver shouldn't have known each other pre-island. Period.

Agree!

and maybe hint at DC's first couple starting up a relationship again.

yes, hint only. If they put them together then only do so at the very very very end of the series so the writers don't have time to screw Laurel over with CW romance melodrama

 

[SpideyVille]

At this point, I just want to see Oliver and Laurel show some kind of friendship towards each other. Like realistically, why did they still stick around each other for so long after he returned? They only seem linked by their past, instead of moving forward because they choose to.

And that's something the show doesn't do well enough or often. Every week it feels like it's business only. We occasionally get a scene of Laurel and Diggle or Nyssa sharing a meal, but we rarely see any of them just have natural moments. I understand that there are threats around them, but at least show Oliver and Diggle taking a walk and talking or something, anywhere that isn't the lair.

I don't need to see Laurel and Oliver being all hot for each other right now, but at least show that he's willing to hang out or talk to her about something that isn't a problem or a fight.

 

[superboy13]

At this point, I just want to see Oliver and Laurel show some kind of friendship towards each other. Like realistically, why did they still stick around each other for so long after he returned? They only seem linked by their past, instead of moving forward because they choose to.

Y'know what I'd do? I'd start an episode with Laurel entering the Arrow lair in a hurry. "Ollie, are you down here? Your call sounded-"

Lights come on.

SURPRISE!

Everyone's there for Laurel's birthday. "Did you plan all this?" Ollie shrugs, smiles, and hugs her. Everyone says happy birthday, they share a little cake... and Felicity gets a distress call. They all suit up and are out the door in a split second.

Just a little tiny scene, no more than 45 seconds, but I think it'd go a long way to reaffirm Ollie and Laurel's friendship.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I think having the charecter practice martial arts in s1 would've worked just like they have Patsy on JJ practicing it to relieve the anger she had for Oliver/Sara and her family crumbling. It should've definitely happened at the start of s2 after Laurel spent a year being in constant danger and losing Tommy.

It seems like they wanted to start from the absolute ground up with Laurel, her initial stories were about her using the law and being more of a thinker than fighter when it came to dealing with problems, almost like they want to make her Lois-esque.

The only reason I disagree with your Nyssa idea is that was Sara's route. Laurel in season 3 to be her own Canary she needed to do things her way. Which helped formed the Black Canary persona. Going to train with Nyssa would of thrown all that away. She needs her own trainer though someone that can take her fighting skills to a new level.

I think the thing with using Nyssa is we see the effect Laurel has on Nyssa as well, so the relationship is not just a purely functional one, both characters grow as people due to each other.

There isn't a point to miss. The fact is they shouldn't do it of they can't do it right.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

I should be used to your little troll routine by now.

 

[Quasimod0]

I've really liked Laurel recently. And she was good in the latest episode.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Such an upgrade by ditching that wig.

I agree she looks better sans wig. I think if her makeup was a little less black, she'd look perfect. I know she's called Black Canary, but that doesn't mean her lipstick has to be black, too. It makes her look too Goth, IMO.

 

[Batsfan1]

I should be used to your little troll routine by now.

I'm called a troll because I don't say that something is something else.

God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life! God bless everyone!

 

[Primal Slayer]

Trouble for Laurel in the future?