Arrow Dinah Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy Thread - Part 3

[regnak]

It is if it causes more harm in the long run, which is what setting a large number of rogue assassins upon the world would do.

You realize that the only one claiming the LoA did good was Malcolm right? And even if someone who I forgot claimed it too it doesn't matter. We have 0 evidence of them doing good. Evidence of them destroying entire population centers that we do have proof of.

 

[TheRedWraith]

You realize that the only one claiming the LoA did good was Malcolm right? And even if someone who I forgot claimed it too it doesn't matter. We have 0 evidence of them doing good. Evidence of them destroying entire population centers that we do have proof of.

The LoA wasn't doing good, but at least it was controlled chaos, without the rules and regulations of the league keeping the assassins in check multiple groups will form, rogue assassins will be everywhere with no control and complete chaos will ensue.

The best way to have handled the situation would have been to take hold of the organization and change its rules so it could be a force for good.

 

[Batsfan1]

It is if it causes more harm in the long run, which is what setting a large number of rogue assassins upon the world would do.

I said that the best option was to arrest them.

Not really. It's far better to overthrow despotic tyranny with reformative regime change than it is with chaotic destabilization and vaccums of power. At the very least the former mitigates casualties.

We don't and can't know if it does that.

God bless you both! God bless everyone!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The right thing to do isn't shortsighted.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

Your lack of anything approaching nuance or a semblance of a view beyond the absolutes of binary thinking is actually scary as there are so many people in this world that are the same way.

Also... I thought you didn't come to anything with preconceived notions in regards to super hero characters? The Z-Man cometh I think.

 

[Batsfan1]

Your lack of anything approaching nuance or a semblance of a view beyond the absolutes of binary thinking is actually scary as there are so many people in this world that are the same way.

Also... I thought you didn't come to anything with preconceived notions in regards to super hero characters? The Z-Man cometh I think.

I'm fairly sure I only said that about BvS and MOS. Not that I really remember. But this isn't about a preconceived notion in regards to the characters. Binary is all there is. I don't know why it's scary. Anything else is clouded judgement.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I'm fairly sure I only said that about BvS and MOS. Not that I really remember. But this isn't about a preconceived notion in regards to the characters. Binary is all there is. I don't know why it's scary. Anything else is clouded judgement.

So it's ONLY for those projects that you supposedly have a "open mind"? Riiight.

One day you may understand that actually having an open mind means knowing that purity of thought isn't an advantage, practical, a true assessment of the various shades of humanity or even true.

And it's scary because binary thinking is the easiest way to get people to do a lot of very stupid and destructive stuff. Binary thinking dehumanizes, has no place for actual compassion, understanding, or allowances for inherent imperfection in human beings. It's usually found in any philosophical outlook that is heavily tainted by a sophomoric elitism and un-self aware view of human nature.

Look at the statement you just made, a blanket pronouncement of "ALL ELSE IS CLOUDED JUDGEMENT". That's a bold statement that is not in any way backed up by the facts of life. It assumes much to say the least. But it has one great virtue for people that adopt such a world view: You don't have to think any more or make judgment calls any more. You don't have to see things from another person's view. You don't have to have compassion or develop wisdom. It's black and white. It's precisely the kind of mindset that brings so much of the "with me or against me" mentality to politics, religion and a lot of the clashes on a variety of issues in society. Maybe one day you actually will reckon with this, but I doubt it if at such a young age (and I don't even have to know you to know you are WAY younger and less experienced in the world than I, no matter what you may have gone through life so far) you've made your decision to stay in the comfort of "knowing" as opposed to the uncertainty of "searching".

 

[Batsfan1]

So it's ONLY for those projects that you supposedly have a "open mind"? Riiight.

One day you may understand that actually having an open mind means knowing that purity of thought isn't an advantage, practical, a true assessment of the various shades of humanity or even true.

And it's scary because binary thinking is the easiest way to get people to do a lot of very stupid and destructive stuff. Binary thinking dehumanizes, has no place for actual compassion, understanding, or allowances for inherent imperfection in human beings. It's usually found in any philosophical outlook that is heavily tainted by a sophomoric elitism and un-self aware view of human nature.

Look at the statement you just made, a blanket pronouncement of "ALL ELSE IS CLOUDED JUDGEMENT". That's a bold statement that is not in any way backed up by the facts of life. It assumes much to say the least. But it has one great virtue for people that adopt such a world view: You don't have to think any more or make judgment calls any more. You don't have to see things from another person's view. You don't have to have compassion or develop wisdom. It's black and white. It's precisely the kind of mindset that brings so much of the "with me or against me" mentality to politics, religion and a lot of the clashes on a variety of issues in society. Maybe one day you actually will reckon with this, but I doubt it if at such a young age (and I don't even have to know you to know you are WAY younger and less experienced in the world than I, no matter what you may have gone through life so far) you've made your decision to stay in the comfort of "knowing" as opposed to the uncertainty of "searching".

I look at things through binary and I feel compassion, understanding and understand imperfection inherent human beings. Looking at things through right and wrong doesn't change any of that. I don't remember saying anything about having an open mind.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[SpideyVille]

I'll preface this by saying this isn't hopeful wishing from a fan boy, but after last night's episode, does it seem more likely that Oliver and Laurel will eventually end up together than it has in the past?

While I doubt Guggenheim will allow it, it kinda felt like Laurel was beginning to realize that she isn't fully over Oliver as much as she thought she was. Regardless, I'm very happy that they gave her a moment and a scene to react to the news of William. But I wonder if they were planting a seed for a later time.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Hopefully not, there is just zero chemistry there at all and it would undo the good development both have had.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I'll preface this by saying this isn't hopeful wishing from a fan boy, but after last night's episode, does it seem more likely that Oliver and Laurel will eventually end up together than it has in the past?

While I doubt Guggenheim will allow it, it kinda felt like Laurel was beginning to realize that she isn't fully over Oliver as much as she thought she was. Regardless, I'm very happy that they gave her a moment and a scene to react to the news of William. But I wonder if they were planting a seed for a later time.

I do think that's the case. They're planting the seed.

I'm fine with it as long as it's not simply replacing Laurel with Felicity. I don't want the show to revolve around the relationship. Oliver has to be able to stand as a character on his own. He's got his mayor thing, taxing the rich and helping the poor. Laurel has her ADA day job where she gets her intel from. Keep those story beats separated.

And just keep it flirty like how Sara's being written in LoT. GA+BC should be fun, not dramatic.

If they want to borrow from Batman is dating Catwoman, in this instance I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't even do the romantic angle with Oliver's and Laurel's civillian IDs. Leave the cat and mouse and sexual tension to their masked personas. Just keep it casual.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

I dont care about chemistry. Just have them work together more


Anyone concern Laurel won't be around post 18?

 

[Paradox1]

I'll preface this by saying this isn't hopeful wishing from a fan boy, but after last night's episode, does it seem more likely that Oliver and Laurel will eventually end up together than it has in the past?

While I doubt Guggenheim will allow it, it kinda felt like Laurel was beginning to realize that she isn't fully over Oliver as much as she thought she was. Regardless, I'm very happy that they gave her a moment and a scene to react to the news of William. But I wonder if they were planting a seed for a later time.

I hope not, Oliver was terrible to Laurel. She's developed so much since they've been apart.

Hopefully not, there is just zero chemistry there at all and it would undo the good development both have had.

We've been having this disagreement since season one.Chemistry first of all is relative. Secondly what I agree they don't have, or never been on this show,is fun together.Which is by design since they have this long complicated history. Filled with Oliver Queen shenanigans of him cheating on her over and over again. Which doesn't allow for flirtation, or sexual innuendo. Soon as they start talking like that it leads to getting in bed together.There is no will they, won't they with Laurel and Oliver they just will. Then Oliver will blow things up like he always has.

 

[Hunter Rider]

We've been having this disagreement since season one.Chemistry first of all is relative. Secondly what I agree they don't have, or never been on this show,is fun together.Which is by design since they have this long complicated history. Filled with Oliver Queen shenanigans of him cheating on her over and over again. Which doesn't allow for flirtation, or sexual innuendo. Soon as they start talking like that it leads to getting in bed together.There is no will they, won't they with Laurel and Oliver they just will. Then Oliver will blow things up like he always has.

Chemistry is an intangible, there's never been any sign of anything with him and Laurel in any of their interactions, it's just flat. To use this boards favourite word, putting them together would just be pandering to comic nerds.

 

[SpideyVille]

I was just watching videos of their romantic scenes in season 1. It's hard to compare their chemistry to Olicity, since EBR has been shown to have great chemistry with anyone, and her relationships/attraction to Ray and Barry seemed more fitting for her character. But she could look like a good fit with just about anyone.

But what I will say is, their relationship in season one made it seem like they had a future together, but it would take a while to get there. But some stuff was ultimately rushed because it's a CW show and you need relationship drama.

With that said, I agree with Paradox1 in that the biggest problem with Laurel and Ollie is that they rarely get real moments together. I love when they have a one on one scene where Laurel calls him out or he calls her out and they just show some kind of emotion that isn't centered around a mission or something. But that's also something the show suffers from with all characters, and so does The Flash. We rarely see these characters having fun with each other on their own. Flash does it better because its lighthearted, but more often than not, things seem to be business all the time on both shows. That's why I love character moments like Oliver at the debate, cracking subtle jokes, which happened much more often in season one.

There's not as much investment in the relationships between certain characters, and more often than not, it feels like they all just tolerate each other, as opposed to truly caring for one another.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I'll preface this by saying this isn't hopeful wishing from a fan boy, but after last night's episode, does it seem more likely that Oliver and Laurel will eventually end up together than it has in the past?

While I doubt Guggenheim will allow it, it kinda felt like Laurel was beginning to realize that she isn't fully over Oliver as much as she thought she was. Regardless, I'm very happy that they gave her a moment and a scene to react to the news of William. But I wonder if they were planting a seed for a later time.

I don't think they intended it like that or that they have any interest of doing it. Olicity would need to stay done and we would have to go a full season before it would even seem somewhat ok for L/O to get back together.

But furthermore, Amell is not interested in the Laurel pairing and hasn't been since S1, paired with anyone who was pro-L/O are gone apart from KC.

Though I have always said while I could care less if L/O get back together (I just want them to be bffs) I have also always said that I would be interested to see how KC/SA handle a L/O relationship that is happy, not angsty, and where the two are actually into each other instead of one hating the other and hiding secrets.

 

[Kster95]

Chemistry is an intangible, there's never been any sign of anything with him and Laurel in any of their interactions, it's just flat. To use this boards favourite word, putting them together would just be pandering to comic nerds.

In your opinion. Not a fact.

Pretty sure you are a big Felicity fan too so this make sense.

 

[Hunter Rider]

In your opinion. Not a fact.

Pretty sure you are a big Felicity fan too so this make sense.

Opinion's are "I like something" or "I don't like something" Seeing what is there in scenes between characters is like water is wet, fire is hot, ice is cold etc.....

I am a Thea fan actually and I don't dislike Laurel at all.

 

[DeadFan]

But furthermore, Amell is not interested in the Laurel pairing and hasn't been since S1, paired with anyone who was pro-L/O are gone apart from KC.

I have yet to see Amell have good consistent romantic chemistry with anyone IMO. Saw 2-3 quick instances with EBR but that was just in S1. Since S2 I never felt the famous Olicity chemistry. I've seen about 2-3 times (one in S3 and twice in S4) where I could see some potential chemistry with KC. But that's it. I think SA is better at bromance chemistry.

 

[DeadFan]

Opinion's are "I like something" or "I don't like something" Seeing what is there in scenes between characters is like water is wet, fire is hot, ice is cold etc.....

I would say water being wet, fire hot, ice cold are better described as tangible sensory experiences whereas "chemistry" is an intangible subjective impression/perception about something. Much harder to agree on than something that can be confirmed via senses such as touch

 

[SpideyVille]

I have yet to see Amell have good consistent romantic chemistry with anyone IMO. Saw 2-3 quick instances with EBR but that was just in S1. Since S2 I never felt the famous Olicity chemistry. I've seen about 2-3 times (one in S3 and twice in S4) where I could see some potential chemistry with KC. But that's it. I think SA is better at bromance chemistry.

Amell has a natural charm and charisma to him. Awkward acting style, but he has charm. Just watch season 1, or his Facebook videos.

With that said, to say that Olicity has better chemistry than Laurel and Oliver is kind of a one sided argument. Again, the reason why so many people fell in love with Felicity is because of her quirky attitude that comes off as very cute and funny, even in awkward moments. That's not Olicity chemistry, that is EBR's acting carrying that. The fact that she had even more chemistry with Ray and Barry, two actors that she had less time working with, showing how much of a factor she is on her own. All of Felicity scenes were great in the first two seasons, until the romance was introduced and the character was written horribly and lost all of that spunk until this season. But last night's episode reverted her back to what didn't work last year.

As far as KC is concerned, it was like night and day watching her small appearances on Legends and Flash, and seeing just how much more likable she was there. She definitely has the ability to be likable. The reason why she's not on Arrow is up to speculation, but it's ironic how the guy in charge, Guggenheim, was not involved in those other two shows as he is not the showrunner, and Laurel was able to be herself and be more likable in the process. The fact that Laurel is not allowed to have an arc of her own that doesn't involve Sara is just one of many issues that keep her from being able to win over some fans.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Amell has a natural charm and charisma to him. Awkward acting style, but he has charm. Just watch season 1, or his Facebook videos.

With that said, to say that Olicity has better chemistry than Laurel and Oliver is kind of a one sided argument. Again, the reason why so many people fell in love with Felicity is because of her quirky attitude that comes off as very cute and funny, even in awkward moments. That's not Olicity chemistry, that is EBR's acting carrying that. The fact that she had even more chemistry with Ray and Barry, two actors that she had less time working with, showing how much of a factor she is on her own. All of Felicity scenes were great in the first two seasons, until the romance was introduced and the character was written horribly and lost all of that spunk until this season. But last night's episode reverted her back to what didn't work last year.

As far as KC is concerned, it was like night and day watching her small appearances on Legends and Flash, and seeing just how much more likable she was there. She definitely has the ability to be likable. The reason why she's not on Arrow is up to speculation, but it's ironic how the guy in charge, Guggenheim, was not involved in those other two shows as he is not the showrunner, and Laurel was able to be herself and be more likable in the process. The fact that Laurel is not allowed to have an arc of her own that doesn't involve Sara is just one of many issues that keep her from being able to win over some fans.

Quick, stop making sense before you get accused of being a canon demanding comic nerd.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

anyone interesting in the court scene proscuting Darhk? Only thing is she kinda have a conflict of interest in this matter

 

[SpideyVille]

Quick, stop making sense before you get accused of being a canon demanding comic nerd.

LOL, it's not that I'm trying to put one character above the other here. I'm just addressing a fundamental problem with the show that has been very evident for the past two seasons. I first noticed it last season with Roy, another character that I was so excited to see, who ultimately did nothing for most of the season.

This season I'm seeing it with Laurel, another character who has potential to be interesting, but is just put in horrible storylines. In season 2, she was purposely being written to look bad, but now she's being written poorly just like Felicity was last season. If you actually give actors something to work with, they tend to put in at least a decent performance. Case and point:

[YT]jEyO9q9HGTc[/YT]

 

[SpideyVille]

anyone interesting in the court scene proscuting Darhk? Only thing is she kinda have a conflict of interest in this matter

Not really, because I think of the court scenes in Daredevil, and they were strong because they were given time to breathe. But on these CW shows, scenes like that are over in a minute or two. They almost seem to lose their importance.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Not really, because I think of the court scenes in Daredevil, and they were strong because they were given time to breathe. But on these CW shows, scenes like that are over in a minute or two. They almost seem to lose their importance.

The Moira Queen trial was good until Malcolm ninjas in and tells her he rigged the outcome. It killed the suspense.