Discussion: Racism - Part 4

[B]

They don't even investigate them. Less then 10%. And even serious stuff sees people investigates for years while continuing to keep their badge and even continue in police work. It is almost like folk need to prove the injustice on camera, kick up a giant fuss and have the rest of the world see it before anything gets done...

In what reality does this seem to hold police accountable for their actions? Especially when we know that police officers who have actually told on their fellow officers for misconduct have been shut out of the system. The good ones are the ones who lose their jobs.

It is amazing how much people twist logic to defend **** cops.

It should be less than 10%, anymore & you'd seriously need to worry even further than your country already is about the state of your police service about not only competence but corruption.

Police are entitled to the same due process that everyone else is, the police conducting & compiling an investigation on a civilian criminal can take months sometimes even years to complete, so why would it be any different for internal investigations?

Surely it would be unlawful if they stripped the officer off their badge & suspended them indefinitely pending the result of an investigation based on allegations from someone? What happens if the officer gets cleared & exonerated of any wrongdoing? Twisted logic.

 

[Sithborg]

I dunno, is it lawful for a civilian to be suspended pending completion of the trial?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It should be less than 10%, anymore & you'd seriously need to worry even further than your country already is about the state of your police service about not only competence but corruption.

Police are entitled to the same due process that everyone else is, the police conducting & compiling an investigation on a civilian criminal can take months sometimes even years to complete, so why would it be any different for internal investigations?

Surely it would be unlawful if they stripped the officer off their badge & suspended them indefinitely pending the result of an investigation based on allegations from someone? What happens if the officer gets cleared & exonerated of any wrongdoing? Twisted logic.

They should investigates less then 10% of accusations of police misconduct, that includes racial profiling, harassment, beatings and killings?

The twisted logic is that someone doing nothing wrong being racial profiled being the issue in a situation where a cop is being a bigot, is somehow the one responsible for the incident.

The police being entitle to the same due process means they must be held to the same scrutiny. What you are ignoring is that they aren't. They want to hide this misconduct. We have newspapers suing for access to show this. To show they sweep it under the rug and just straight up avoid it.

These investigations shouldn't take long at all. We have ways to make sure cops are doing the right thing. That they are not breaking the law. Police departments don't want them and when we have incidents which should have been recorded officers for some reason don't turn on or turn off their camera. The LA Police department did not do anything to their officers who broke their equipment on purpose in mass. We constantly have cops breaking the law forcing people to stop recording them because they decided they can't.

What you are advocating is special privileges for being a cop.

 

[B]

I dunno, is it lawful for a civilian to be suspended pending completion of the trial?

I don't know you tell me, I was asking not telling.

Say your place work suspended you because you were under police investigation for say theft, which you are later completely & unequivocally cleared of any & all charges, then what? Wouldn't you have then been mistreated because you'd effectively been treated like you were guilty?

 

[B]

They should investigates less then 10% of accusations of police misconduct, that includes racial profiling, harassment, beatings and killings?

The police being entitle to the same due process means they must be held to the same scrutiny. What you are ignoring is that they aren't. They want to hide this misconduct. We have newspapers suing for access to show this. To show they sweep it under the rug and just straight up avoid it.

These investigations shouldn't take long at all. We have ways to make sure cops are doing the right thing. That they are not breaking the law. Police departments don't want them and when we have incidents which should have been recorded officers for some reason don't turn on or turn off their camera. The LA Police department did not do anything to their officers who broke their equipment on purpose in mass. We constantly have cops breaking the law forcing people to stop recording them because they decided they can't.

What you are advocating is special privileges for being a cop.

Wait, have I misread/misunderstood that statistic you put up? Does it mean less than 10% of the officers in each Police Force, which I interpret as Department, have been under investigation? Which would technically be a good thing because it would imply on paper that the majority of them are doing their jobs well? OR does it mean less than 10% of the accusations against the officers were actually being investigated? Which to say is alarming would be an incredible understatement.

When I read that last night I thought it meant the former, the link doesn't work for me so I can't read other than what you've posted it just brings me to the EU USAToday homepage.

In the UK, members of of the public free to attend misconduct hearings which are held in a public forum with some exceptions, free to access records of misconduct hearings as well which go back to 2017. There's also a request feature so you may be able to request an officers discipline record going back further, I'm not too sure about that though.

Metropolitan Police: Misconduct Hearings

Police misconduct investigations are handled independently by the IOPC for England & Wales, I'm sure Scotland, Northern & Republic of Ireland have their own equivalents of both of which just at a glance there's a long list of active, inactive & resolved investigations. There seems to be a hell of a lot more transparency here than in the States, although I'm sure there's proportionately as many bad policemen & women.

The twisted logic is that someone doing nothing wrong being racial profiled being the issue in a situation where a cop is being a bigot, is somehow the one responsible for the incident.

Come on now Darth don't twist my words, you know I didn't say nor mean this.. like, at all.

 

[Sithborg]

I don't know you tell me, I was asking not telling.

Say your place work suspended you because you were under police investigation for say theft, which you are later completely & unequivocally cleared of any & all charges, then what? Wouldn't you have then been mistreated because you'd effectively been treated like you were guilty?

I mean, sort of tough to do your job while you are in jail.

 

[B]

I mean, sort of tough to do your job while you are in jail.

You can't be indefinitely jailed while there is an ongoing investigation, at least not without good cause.. can you?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Wait, have I misread/misunderstood that statistic you put up? Does it mean less than 10% of the officers in each Police Force, which I interpret as Department, have been under investigation? Which would technically be a good thing because it would imply on paper that the majority of them are doing their jobs well? OR does it mean less than 10% of the accusations against the officers were actually being investigated? Which to say is alarming would be an incredible understatement.

When I read that last night I thought it meant the former, the link doesn't work for me so I can't read other than what you've posted it just brings me to the EU USAToday homepage.

In the UK, members of of the public free to attend misconduct hearings which are held in a public forum with some exceptions, free to access records of misconduct hearings as well which go back to 2017. There's also a request feature so you may be able to request an officers discipline record going back further, I'm not too sure about that though.

Metropolitan Police: Misconduct Hearings

Police misconduct investigations are handled independently by the IOPC for England & Wales, I'm sure Scotland, Northern & Republic of Ireland have their own equivalents of both of which just at a glance there's a long list of active, inactive & resolved investigations. There seems to be a hell of a lot more transparency here than in the States, although I'm sure there's proportionately as many bad policemen & women.

No, you are right, I read that wrong.

One of the big issues over here is how the police departments treat complaints. There is a culture of cover up. Footage of police shootings stay hidden. Silencing cops who tell the truth. Trying to hide complaints against officers. The media shouldn't have to fight for records and yet...

California court: Old police misconduct records are public

NJ police brutality: Secret settlements keep bad cops on street, public in danger

Rahm Emanuel's Nixon moment: The Laquan McDonald coverup will be his legacy

Cops are almost never prosecuted and convicted for use of force

It is easy to say there are proportionately as many bad police officers but the issue is, a culture of acting like whatever a cop does is justified, leads to an even more toxic environment. No matter what a cop does, any suggestion that there are bad cops is treated as if it is some great affront over here. There is some Trump logic to how the police want to be treated.

What I think is most important though is those that allow cops to act this way. Does one qualify as a good cop if they know misconduct happened, but they stay silent or worse liked? What about those apart of the cover up?

Why an ex-FBI agent decided to break through the blue wall of silence

Telling on a cop, making an official report, has never been enough. There has been video tape of beatings, shootings, with no justification that has lead to police getting off, because a big part of all of this is condition the public to believe cops are infallible. I mean, we have actually seen the police beat a man for no reason and then charge him for bleeding on them.

The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie

Come on now Darth don't twist my words, you know I didn't say nor mean this.. like, at all.

I get that. I get the basic idea to just do what the cops say. But when one spends their life being racially profiled and has done nothing wrong, I get reacting. Injustice brings out a lot in people and being treated like a criminal just because of the color of your skin does not go over well.

And well cops are the peace officers. They are the ones with the training. It should be their responsibility to handle such situations correctly and it scares me how often that seems to go unsaid.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean come the **** on:

https://www.theroot.com/during-police-raid-chicago-officers-handcuffed-an-8-ye-1835091200

 

[B]

No, you are right, I read that wrong.

One of the big issues over here is how the police departments treat complaints. There is a culture of cover up. Footage of police shootings stay hidden. Silencing cops who tell the truth. Trying to hide complaints against officers. The media shouldn't have to fight for records and yet...

California court: Old police misconduct records are public

NJ police brutality: Secret settlements keep bad cops on street, public in danger

Rahm Emanuel's Nixon moment: The Laquan McDonald coverup will be his legacy

Cops are almost never prosecuted and convicted for use of force

It is easy to say there are proportionately as many bad police officers but the issue is, a culture of acting like whatever a cop does is justified, leads to an even more toxic environment. No matter what a cop does, any suggestion that there are bad cops is treated as if it is some great affront over here. There is some Trump logic to how the police want to be treated.

What I think is most important though is those that allow cops to act this way. Does one qualify as a good cop if they know misconduct happened, but they stay silent or worse liked? What about those apart of the cover up?

Why an ex-FBI agent decided to break through the blue wall of silence

Telling on a cop, making an official report, has never been enough. There has been video tape of beatings, shootings, with no justification that has lead to police getting off, because a big part of all of this is condition the public to believe cops are infallible. I mean, we have actually seen the police beat a man for no reason and then charge him for bleeding on them.

The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie

I get that, there certainly seems to be a greatly significant culture difference between the States & the UK in regards to this sort of thing. Obviously I'm not saying or implying that there isn't anything similar going on here because it blatantly is however it doesn't seem as much of an epidemic as it seems to be in the States in regards to essentially Police corruption on various levels.

I believe in one of those links I sent you for here, it gave detailed statistics/percentages of the various past & present investigations & what they were for. Lies, dishonesty, falsifying reports & the like were quite high only 2nd I believe to assault/excessive use of force. I can't actually find the page but it was somewhere on one of those links I believe. That's what I meant when I said there are proportionately as many bad policemen/women, I was talking about in regards to our population, there will be more cases of it in the States because your population is probably 3x-4x that of the UK.

I'd never heard of the Laquan McDonald case before but reading your link & I was listening to a few news reports on Youtube while I was working on something, the whole thing sounds particularly grim.. while we might not share every single view on this sort of thing I can certainly at the very least accept your perspective on the matter(s) when things such as that are a far more common occurrence in the States.

I get that. I get the basic idea to just do what the cops say. But when one spends their life being racially profiled and has done nothing wrong, I get reacting. Injustice brings out a lot in people and being treated like a criminal just because of the color of your skin does not go over well.

And well cops are the peace officers. They are the ones with the training. It should be their responsibility to handle such situations correctly and it scares me how often that seems to go unsaid.

I completely agree & fully appreciate the mans reaction, even in your everyday life there is nothing more infuriating than someone assuming you've done something you haven't & no matter what you say it falls on deaf ears & you get the impression they still don't believe you until the very moment they have it completely spelt out for them. When that happens with the police multiply that infuriation significantly because I think for the most part even if you've had bad experiences with the police, you still would & should expect them to be perfect, always, completely impartial & try to always believe you or at least make you feel like they're giving you the benefit of the doubt.. which we both know doesn't happen.

 

[Donner]

FYI, the cop resigned but will be paid until February 2020.

He should invest in armour to protect him from *checks notes* a garbage picker?

 

[jolldan]

FYI, the cop resigned but will be paid until February 2020.

He should invest in armour to protect him from *checks notes* a garbage picker?

That is crazy that they are paying the dude till 2020

 

[B]

FYI, the cop resigned but will be paid until February 2020.

He should invest in armour to protect him from *checks notes* a garbage picker?

I really don't get that, surely if you resign in the middle of an ongoing investigation, because of the pressure it regardless of what BS he actually gave as the reason for his resignation, the investigation then concludes you were at fault & would have faced discipline, surely that should render any resignation severance package void?

 

[Schlosser85]

....if you’re afraid of a garbage picker, you should not be a cop.

 

[Teelie]

I don't know, some police officers are garbage. Like this one.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

She was fired or pulling a gun on a black couple. Now, the ex-campground employee has been arrested - CNN

 

[Pink Ranger]

She was fired or pulling a gun on a black couple. Now, the ex-campground employee has been arrested - CNN

I look forward to seeing her as a keynote speaker at a CPAC convention soon.

 

[jolldan]

Comic Relief to cut back on celebrity appeals after Stacey Dooley row

Comic Relief is to send fewer celebrities abroad after criticism that stars like Stacey Dooley were going to Africa as "white saviours".

The charity's co-founder, screenwriter Richard Curtis, told MPs TV appeals "will be heading in the direction of not using" celebrities abroad.

He said they would be "very careful to give voices to people" who live there.

MP David Lammy, who had criticised the Dooley film, praised the plan to move away from "tired, harmful stereotypes".

So let me get this straight the politician who's never been to do any aid work or at the very least taken part in comic relief (and has claimed over £1 million in expenses during his time in parliament) has managed to moan enough to make changes to the future of comic relief and people are championing him saying well done David. And then you have Stacey Dooley the woman who took time to go over to Africa and raise money to try and genuinely help people is being blasted as a "white saviour". Honestly this PC worlds gonna need covered in bubble wrap soon so nobody hurts themselves if this is the degree we are getting to now.

 

[Schlosser85]

Typical SJW. Holding everyone else to ridiculous standards they don't hold themselves to, and only "fighting" for social justice from a chair and behind a computer screen.

 

[Hypestyle]

Even black cops out there aren't safe from being profiled.
Detroit: Black Detroit police officer: I was profiled by white cop for having large sum of cash

 

[Sithborg]

Yup, this is totally not gonna go pear shaped...

An Alabama megachurch will form its own police force after passage of controversial law - CNNPolitics

Also, yadda, yadda, sharia law.

 

[Teelie]

My immediate thought was this is Sharia Law that those same Christians claim to be against. It is literally the same thing and they will ignore it too because it is their "law" they are trying to impose.

 

[Sithborg]

Charlottesville car attacker pleads for mercy in sentencing memo - CNN

You know, I understand it is their job to advocate for their client as hard as possible. But characterizing what he did as part of "transient immaturity" kind of enrages me. Also, him asking not to be defined by his worst moment? It reeks of influenza. I would have been fine without a life sentence before. But now, **** him.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

The rest of Heather Heyer's life was defined by his worst moment, it's only fair that his should be as well.

 

[Schlosser85]

Deliberately driving your car into a crowd of protesters is a bit more than "transient immaturity", whatever that means.