The Dark Knight Does anyone have any concerns about the movie....

[StorminNorman]

Care to show me a case where a person ended up falling into chemicals and having their skin bleached perfectly white and survived healthy enough to live close to a normal life?

Show me a real life Batman and or a Microwave emitter.

 

[Anita18]

Also though, if the Joker has to apply make up to himself - his mystery IS gone! He wakes up to a mirror reflecting the guy he use to be at all times. There is no freak covering masking the man who once was. Your ruining your own logic.

Not necessarily. You can look in the mirror some days and see something different in yourself. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Solidus]

Well I'm definitely not nearly as versed about Batman lore as most of you guys are, but I remember when I was in another fandom which I *did* know a lot about there was a lot of debate about characters being depicted as "true" to the original stories, which I guess is natural. There were those who wanted classic versions, and those who liked to see a new take on things, but I think inevitably art always evolves, that's sort of the nature of it, or so it seems to me. Doesn't mean it makes everyone happy though I guess, and maybe if I were more versed in the Batman lore I might be disappointed too about some of the changes but I rather like what Nolan's doing with the Joker.

I guess though the thing I'm worried the most about is that they won't really explore the interesting psychology among the characters....

You speak nothing but logic. LOL its forbidden here

No I agree Art always changes. And the Joker has had huge changes many times before. But lol they won't want to hear it because a lot of these fans are too young to have seen any of these changes and they act as if Nolan is the first to have the balls do change.

Umm If I'm not mistaken Joker never had a plastic surgery smile....until Burton. Why aren't some complaining about that HUGE change. Or all the changes over his history.

But some fans find one thing like you said the web shooters or what not. ONE little thing and they make it to be the BIGGEST fault int he world because some just like to feel like better fans then others by saying they don't like change.

But oh well. On to disk 4 of BR

 

[StorminNorman]

I'll say it again. You all ready have it. Watch Burton's version. Which is a great movie. But if you don't want change. like some one else put wonderfuly above....art always evolves.

Batman 89 was good - not great.

I want a great Batman movie. I want a truly great Batman v. Joker movie. It has yet to happen.

 

[hegele]

My only concern is Heath's ability to laugh.

From what I have heard it seems like a long, 'high pitched' exhale, then some laughter, like a really forced laugh.

But that's not enough to make it seem any less awesome.

As I recall the D.A. in the first film was trying to get in her panties but she didn't let him.

Am i the only one who thought that subplot was wholly unnecessary?

 

[batman497]

Explain how its badly written please

Explain how anything is badly written! If you watch it does not flow. The robbery scene is so basic it semms like it came out of a tv movie. Lines like,"criminals used to believe in things honor, respect, what do you believe in?" is so cliche what the hell does "I belive what doesn't kill you makes you stranger." It doesn't really mean anything. If it was just supposed to be an old school bank robber scene watch heat. All these ridiculous monologues are just stupid. And sorry the conversations between the criminals is badly acted and the lines are just lame. He wears it like war paint. Just stupid sorry. Usually if a robbery is in session you don't have a conversation bout your boss while you are cutting power lines. All and all it's just so unoriginal and really the only excting parts are when bank manager yells,"do you know who you're stealing from?" and the joke reveal.

 

[Heretic]

Though we cant show you a microwave emitter, we can show you the U2 spy plane...which at the time was IMPOSSIBLE...yet it existed...there are a TON of technological advances sitting in the companies or governments warehouses thatw e dont know about.

Still waiting on teh name of the chemical...or even why a chemical like hat would be invented...

 

[Doomofman]

You can have a man with underlying psychological issues that is not evil lose his mind after a chemical change. A complete mutation of his body. A corruption of his appearance. Again, I explain in this thread my ideal Joker.

The way Kane saw him was a white freak of nature that was a cold blooded killer who was incredibly brilliant and liked to toy with his opponents. If Nolan gives me that - I have no complains at all.

Also though, if the Joker has to apply make up to himself - his mystery IS gone! He wakes up to a mirror reflecting the guy he use to be at all times. There is no freak covering masking the man who once was. Your ruining your own logic.

He's not the guy he used to be though.. He has huge scars around his mouth...

It's possible that he wakes up every morning see's he's scarred face and paints his face because he hate's the rest of humanitie's perfections.. hence his joy in killing them....

I think he more paints his face to seperate him from what he considers scum...

 

[Solidus]

You can have a man with underlying psychological issues that is not evil lose his mind after a chemical change. A complete mutation of his body. A corruption of his appearance. Again, I explain in this thread my ideal Joker.

The way Kane saw him was a white freak of nature that was a cold blooded killer who was incredibly brilliant and liked to toy with his opponents. If Nolan gives me that - I have no complains at all.

Also though, if the Joker has to apply make up to himself - his mystery IS gone! He wakes up to a mirror reflecting the guy he use to be at all times. There is no freak covering masking the man who once was. Your ruining your own logic.

The white was never the mystery to me. To me that sounds like a junior high girl being superficial. To me the mystery is why this person, kills the way he does. There is no reason. He just is pure anarchy. And that is the mystery of the character. How he makes himself white has never been the mystery of the character to me.

The mystery is why is he a murderer/anarchist. That is the mystery. Most villians have reasons. Or back stories of either wanting power or revenge, or the girl what ever. Joker is the ONE villian that has no reason to his madness....he just does this with no single purpose. That is his wonderful mystery. Not his skin. The skin is a mystery to a point, but a superficial one.

 

[StorminNorman]

It's also shallow, apologetic for the character, and hard to believe. You're basing everything The Joker does on "Wah, I look weird", and implying that that would drive someone to do what The Joker does. That's hard to swallow.

Clearly a man who does what the Joker does is completely mentally messed up. However, just like Harvey Dent, the idea that there was some catylist to his mental breakdown is hardly obsurd.

The Joker does not have to have encountered tragedy himself in order to believe that life is a joke. The world is FULL of tragedies and incongruities that are plainly evident. In BATMAN: THE MUSICAL, he's a horrible person who simply realizes how absurd existence is and acts on it to amuse himself.

Sure, however there is simply no reason for this man's tragedy NOT be a physical change. It contradicts - again - over 70 years of history. Changing the Joker's catylist is just like changing Batmans, or Harvey Dents. I wouldn't want either to happen.

On a personal note: I am incredibly currious about Batman: The Musical and I am almost done with your Justice League script - I truly enjoy it

 

[RED_Rider]

The only thing I'm worried about is that TDK may not be as great and polished as BB which IMO is one of the best movies of all time and THE best comic book movie and most polished feature film ever. I believe in BB and consider it perfect. I'm worried that my high expectations for TDK as a sequel to BB may disappoint me in the end but hopefully, TDK can be as good and polished as BB if not better. I pray to God that it is.

 

[BattyBlue]

As I recall the D.A. in the first film was trying to get in her panties but she didn't let him.

Am i the only one who thought that subplot was wholly unnecessary?

I'm afraid I was too blown away by Holme's acting skills to notice a subplot. Was that the DA that, funnily enough, also got blown away by some not so nice men in uniform?

I may at this point, have to watch BB again.

 

[Anita18]

Explain how anything is badly written! If you watch it does not flow. The robbery scene is so basic it semms like it came out of a tv movie. Lines like,"criminals used to believe in things honor, respect, what do you believe in?" is so cliche what the hell does "I belive what doesn't kill you makes you stranger." It doesn't really mean anything. If it was just supposed to be an old school bank robber scene watch heat. All these ridiculous monologues are just stupid. And sorry the conversations between the criminals is badly acted and the lines are just lame. He wears it like war paint. Just stupid sorry. Usually if a robbery is in session you don't have a conversation bout your boss while you are cutting power lines. All and all it's just so unoriginal and really the only excting parts are when bank manager yells,"do you know who you're stealing from?" and the joke reveal.

The fact that they are conversing points out (to me, at least) that these are professionals and that they've robbed so many banks before, it's like waking up in the morning and getting your newspaper.

It's not Shakespeare, but at least the dialogue does what movie dialogue is supposed to do - give you an insight into the characters and move the story along.

 

[Doomofman]

Explain how anything is badly written! If you watch it does not flow. The robbery scene is so basic it semms like it came out of a tv movie. Lines like,"criminals used to believe in things honor, respect, what do you believe in?" is so cliche what the hell does "I belive what doesn't kill you makes you stranger." It doesn't really mean anything. If it was just supposed to be an old school bank robber scene watch heat. All these ridiculous monologues are just stupid. And sorry the conversations between the criminals is badly acted and the lines are just lame. He wears it like war paint. Just stupid sorry. Usually if a robbery is in session you don't have a conversation bout your boss while you are cutting power lines. All and all it's just so unoriginal and really the only excting parts are when bank manager yells,"do you know who you're stealing from?" and the joke reveal.

Like I said already.. They're Goons not scholars...

The line 'Whatever doesn't kill you only makes you.. stranger' ... Em lets seee...He has a big **** off scar on his face.. Now he's a complete loon.. It makes perfect sense.. Joker became who he is from incidents in his life....

 

[Tomar-Re]

Explain how anything is badly written! If you watch it does not flow. The robbery scene is so basic it semms like it came out of a tv movie. Lines like,"criminals used to believe in things honor, respect, what do you believe in?" is so cliche what the hell does "I belive what doesn't kill you makes you stranger." It doesn't really mean anything. If it was just supposed to be an old school bank robber scene watch heat. All these ridiculous monologues are just stupid. And sorry the conversations between the criminals is badly acted and the lines are just lame. He wears it like war paint. Just stupid sorry. Usually if a robbery is in session you don't have a conversation bout your boss while you are cutting power lines. All and all it's just so unoriginal and really the only excting parts are when bank manager yells,"do you know who you're stealing from?" and the joke reveal.

Nolan does cheese out sometimes. The "nice coat" line from BB made me groan.

 

[StorminNorman]

He's not the guy he used to be though.. He has huge scars around his mouth...

It's possible that he wakes up every morning see's he's scarred face and paints his face because he hate's the rest of humanitie's perfections.. hence his joy in killing them....

I think he more paints his face to seperate him from what he considers scum...

Scars that are Self Inflicted. No mystery to his past.

Plus - do you really want two villians motivated by scarred faces?

Also when he paints his face, he is playing dress up. Mascerading as a freak. The Joker should always be THE freak in Gotham.

 

[StylishHokie21]

How exactly did it work in the movies?

People bought it. That's why. There is absolutely no reason why it can't work in this movie either. Saying that it's too far fetched is bull****.

 

[StorminNorman]

Nolan does cheese out sometimes. The "nice coat" line from BB made me groan.

Then you really need to lighten up.

 

[Doomofman]

Clearly a man who does what the Joker does is completely mentally messed up. However, just like Harvey Dent, the idea that there was some catylist to his mental breakdown is hardly obsurd.



Sure, however there is simply no reason for this man's tragedy NOT be a physical change. It contradicts - again - over 70 years of history. Changing the Joker's catylist is just like changing Batmans, or Harvey Dents. I wouldn't want either to happen.

On a personal note: I am incredibly currious about Batman: The Musical and I am almost done with your Justice League script - I truly enjoy it

You're making it out like if the psychosis was brought on by something other then his skin being stained white then it's a farce...

What about his mental state being cause be the disfiguring scars on his face?

 

[Mr. Socko]

Your acting as IF this is an either or question. I would be no more happy with a perfect Batman running around in a ski mask than I would be a perma-white Joker running around giving kids lollypops that aren't poison.

The Permawhite IS a necessity of the Joker. It is what makes him, him. If you look at the comics - it is what causes his psychosis (would you suggest have baby Bruce Wayne not fall into a cave of Bats when he was little? Or grow up in a loving family where his family never died?)

A painted Joker comes normal when he takes a good shower. Even if his smile is carved. The Joker should never be able to blend into society so easy. He is a freak, he will always be a freak and he should always be a freak.

There is still more to his Joker than there is to see. If his face is permawhite (which is what I believe is the case - and I could make the case if you would like) then thats fine. I am not a "purist", I just want to see the Joker on screen.

LOL OMG!!!!!!!

I read through these pages and when I saw all of your posts I simply looked at your avatar and said to myself "wow, Jimmy is actually making coherent sensible good posts," then I looked at the username and noticed this isn't Jimmy, this is Norman

But your argument is well versed and solid points.

 

[StorminNorman]

LOL OMG!!!!!!!

I read through these pages and when I saw all of your posts I simply looked at your avatar and said to myself "wow, Jimmy is actually making coherent sensible good posts," then I looked at the username and noticed this isn't Jimmy, this is Norman

I strive to surprise t:

 

[Doomofman]

Scars that are Self Inflicted. No mystery to his past.

Plus - do you really want two villians motivated by scarred faces?

Also when he paints his face, he is playing dress up. Mascerading as a freak. The Joker should always be THE freak in Gotham.

But It shouldn't be his appearence that makes him a freak..

also I was under the impression that he only inflicted part of the scar himself

 

[Solidus]

Scars that are Self Inflicted. No mystery to his past.

Plus - do you really want two villians motivated by scarred faces?

Also when he paints his face, he is playing dress up. Mascerading as a freak. The Joker should always be THE freak in Gotham.

Wow just like Batman? Dressing up. Because I don't think he is geneticaly really a bat-man. They are theatrical. To me the freak in them is why they do what they do. I know lots of freaks in real life. And they don't need white skin to be freaks.

But just look at your avy. This debate has raged on about how much James Bond is screwed up because Craig is blonde hair and blue eyes. But now most everyone loves this change. This is a big deal to hard core Bond fans.

Things change. And I think for the better.

BTW...is this Stormin...or Jimmy lol. Or are you guys the same guy.....mysterious you are.

 

[branwen]

I like the idea of the Joker turning it around in his mind and telling himself that his scars make him beautiful and the rest of the world is ugly b/c they DON'T have his beautiful smile. And so he emphasizes it with the makeup and such.

As for the dialog though, I mean some of the stuff the Joker says is cheesy, but isn't that sort of what the Joker does, says corny lines like that? I don't know, since the Joker isn't a fool I like to think of him saying them sort of ironically, you know? So the "I believe whatever doesn't kill you makes you....stranger" is actully perfect, b/c I can just imagine him laughing to himself about how silly it is as well, if that makes sense......

 

[donk70]

It is AN IMPROVEMENT for him to not be permawhite...much like organic webshooters (forgiving the physical impossibility of a creature shooting that much webbing without dying or eating a crapload of food constantly).

I can agree with this. However, would they really be coming out of his wrist if it was real life? t: