Dozens feared dead after truck strikes crowd in Nice, France

[Thundercrack85]

Sure. Just don't publicly declare war. It will bring soldiers to ISIS.

You mean like Vietnam?

 

[Donner]

Bin Laden was a non-issue after 9/11. The problem was Iraq, where we had a war that destabilized the region and allowed for even crazier people to take over.

Oh really? Is that why statements were made about World War 3 and the threat of nuclear war and the very fabric of American life being ripped apart? The Bush Administration used that rhetoric to invade Iraq, but Bin Laden gained followers from it.

 

[Donner]

You mean like Vietnam?

Totally separate issue.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Er. The US isn't fighting by themselves. You know that France attacked ISIS after the Paris attacks and Russia has been steadily bombing the **** out of them for months right?

If we start putting a legit amount of troops on the ground, it will be mostly US. It shouldn't be.

Sure. Just don't publicly declare war. It will bring soldiers to ISIS.

Yeah, those tanks are there just because. Same thing with the tens of thousands troops.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Totally separate issue.

Technically not a war though.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh really? Is that why statements were made about World War 3 and the threat of nuclear war and the very fabric of American life being ripped apart? The Bush Administration used that rhetoric to invade Iraq, but Bin Laden gained followers from it.

Which is why Bin Laden is still alive and Al Qeada is a bigger problem then ISIS.... of course not.

 

[Spiderine]

Bombing runs. He's the most unpopular leader France has ever had. And that's saying something, given their history.

France clearly has a homegrown problem. The enemy is already within its borders. Some of these guys were originally from France and left to join the ISIS ranks and returned home. They have a target on its back.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I still don't understand how ISIS is as powerful as it is.

Can the Middle East do anything right?

 

[Donner]

Which is why Bin Laden is still alive and Al Qeada is a bigger problem then ISIS.... of course not.

You're completely missing the point. Completely missing it. The action is not the issue here. It's the public statements. Hearing a world power declare war on a bunch of virginal cowards gives them legitimacy. It's the words that have the power, not the action. ISIS can be destroyed without publicly declaring it.

 

[Donner]

Which is why Bin Laden is still alive and Al Qeada is a bigger problem then ISIS.... of course not.

It took how many years to kill Bin Laden? And how many countries took him in and hid him?

If you honestly think that Bush's rhetoric after 9/11 helped the US, you are so sadly mistaken.

 

[Muze]

Yeah, I know nobody wants to really say it, but going in guns blazing and hitting these guys where they are may be the only recourse. It's gonna be unpopular, but yeah.

you can't stop it. it's not something rational driving it. attacking them will just play into that irrationality.

 

[Donner]

Technically not a war though.

So calling it a war publicly would have made it better? Vietnam was a crap shoot to begin with. Like I said, totally separate issue.

 

[Thundercrack85]

France clearly has a homegrown problem. The enemy is already within its borders. Some of these guys were originally from France and left to join the ISIS ranks and returned home. They have a target on its back.

Well, this is empowering the reactionaries, who want to stop Muslim immigration.

 

[Thundercrack85]

So calling it a war publicly would have made it better? Vietnam was a crap shoot to begin with. Like I said, totally separate issue.

No. I was just trying to understand what you meant by not calling it a war.

 

[Thundercrack85]

you can't stop it. it's not something rational driving it. attacking them will just play into that irrationality.

You kill enough people you can stop anything.

Charlemagne executed 4,500 hostile pagan Saxons, and paganism died in Saxony.

The Japanese were going to fight long enough to inflict massive casualties on the Allies in hopes of reaching a favorable settlement. Then the Americans wiped out two cities in the blink of an eye, and even the craziest nationalists realized the jig was up.

 

[Donner]

Calling it a war turns cowards into soldiers and religious fanaticism into a legitimate cause.

What I'm trying to say here is that a group of crazed fanatics would love nothing more than a world superpower to declare war on them because it means they are worth being declared war on. They're not.

 

[Xrated48]

you can't stop it. it's not something rational driving it. attacking them will just play into that irrationality.

Agreed I don't believe going in their will fix the situation but instead make it worst like we did last time.

 

[Shikamaru]

The problem with Radical Islam is that it's an ideology, not a physical group or object you can take care of. To quote V for Vendetta, ideas are bulletproof. Even with the ISIS leaders gone, the idea that drives ISIS would still live on.

My friend's cousin visited him from France just a few weeks ago. According to her, everyone in France is scared. No one likes to admit they are, but they live in fear on a consistent basis.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The problem with Radical Islam is that it's an ideology, not a physical group or object you can take care of. To quote V for Vendetta, ideas are bulletproof. Even with the ISIS leaders gone, the idea that drives ISIS would still live on.

My friend's cousin visited him from France just a week's ago. According to her, everyone in France is scared. No one likes to admit they are, but they live in fear on a consistent basis.

Not really. Kill enough of them, and there's no one left to carry on their ideology or manage their websites.

 

[Muze]

Not really. Kill enough of them, and there's no one left to carry on their ideology or manage their websites.

should that tactic be employed against all terrorist groups or just the radical islamists? like, would it be ok to root out/cull white supremacists?

 

[Shikamaru]

Not really. Kill enough of them, and there's no one left to carry on their ideology or manage their websites.

There's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. About 22% of them hold either Jihadist or Islamist beliefs.

It's not something you can physically take out. You have to reform the religion from within by empowering the Muslim liberals / moderates.

 

[Spiderine]

The problem with Radical Islam is that it's an ideology, not a physical group or object you can take care of. To quote V for Vendetta, ideas are bulletproof. Even with the ISIS leaders gone, the idea that drives ISIS would still live on.

My friend's cousin visited him from France just a few weeks ago. According to her, everyone in France is scared. No one likes to admit they are, but they live in fear on a consistent basis.

I totally agree.

The irony is that ISIS became a more extreme version of Al Qeada. If that was even possible. It continued to evolve with a younger generation of jihadists and this is what it has become. Hell.....they even rebelled against the older al qaeda leaders.

 

[Thundercrack85]

should that tactic be employed against all terrorist groups or just the radical islamists? like, would it be ok to root out/cull white supremacists?

Well, I think the reaction has to be proportional to the threat. White supremacists are kind of a joke now. You did have that massacre in that black church, but that was highly unusual.

These Islamists seem to be perpetrating massacres on a weekly basis.

Most Klansman can be kept in line by the law.

 

[Thundercrack85]

There's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. About 22% of them hold either Jihadist or Islamist beliefs.

It's not something you can physically take out. You have to reform the religion from within by empowering the Muslim liberals / moderates.

Christ, that is terrifying. 320 million fanatics.

Granted, I am aware of that, but when you see it written out.

We are in over our liberal, bleeding-heart, coexisting heads with those people.

 

[Spiderine]

Not really. Kill enough of them, and there's no one left to carry on their ideology or manage their websites.

It was this very idea that was used to recruit and brainwash the young men an women. Who exactly do you think are putting on the suicide vests? Taking automatic weapons and shooting up public places? Its the kids and teens who grew up during the Afghan and Iraqi occupations. They were sold on the idea that the west declared war and murdered muslim men women and children. Easy to recruit the young kid who saw his family killed and then was told the "infidels" were responsible. Easy mind to shape into a killer.