Enough of the Bull****:Darthphere Presents: Why do you hate Marvel?

[Colossal Spoons]

I just kinda assumed we all knew. B.Willy made me spell it out

 

[BrianWilly]

There are lots of gays in NY too; for the love of Xander, they have Broadway there. Ever heard of the Stonewall riots? Having spent time in both places, I have to say that they share much more similarities than differences. What is it, like, moving from one liberal extreme to the next? The fact that SF would accept mutants in the Marvel universe whereas NY wouldn't doesn't actually show that SF is more enlightened, all it really shows is how severely dystopian Marvel has made NY.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Idk why San Fran is sterotypically "Gay City" lol.

NYC in the Marvel universe doesn't seem to be as gay-friendly as it really is, you're right.

 

[Gilpesh]

Cause it's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabulous.

 

[Manic]

Even if mutant-friendliness wasn't an issue in NYC, there's also the issue of Tony Stark and the Initiative. I mean, let's be real. How often do superheroes venture to the San Francisco area? The X-Men could set up shop there, and no one from the Initiative would ever bother them. I'm pretty sure the rest of the Marvel Universe doesn't even know SF exists.

 

[kguillou]

^ Exactly, and plus, the general atmosphere of SF is much more relaxed than New York. Let's face it, new yorkers are rough and tough people. I'm from jersey and i venture out there a lot so i know. I've also been to San Francisco, and the people there are so much more chill and relaxed than people over here in the east coast. I think thats what drove the x-men's move, not the fact that there's alot of gay people over there. Like i said, this should be an interesting new move for the x-men.

 

[Manic]

Well, we have better weed in the SF bay.

 

[fifthfiend]

I just kinda assumed we all knew. B.Willy made me spell it out

No, I think you did that all by yourself.

Well, we have better weed in the SF bay.

Dude, hook a ***** up.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

No, I think you did that all by yourself.

You gay? Quit catchin feelings

 

[Nitehawk013]

X-Men comics are what got me into comics. I became a casual observer when I went to college but that was 10 years ago. In that time...I have seen nothing that really made me want to start reading anything X again.

Nightcrawler is a man of faith, becomes a priest, finds out he didn't really become a priest and is actually the son of a mutant who says he is Satan? Kurt wants to be more of a leader, then turns into a whiny pansy and doesn't want responsibility anymore. Then its off to Excalibur again.

Angel is archangel, thenAngel with blue skin, then angel completely dressed in ******ed Manga inspired garb, then has healing blood for gods sake and bangs Husk. Now...turning back into Archangel.

Beast is a friggin cat. 'Nuff siad.

Iceman was a crybaby prick for a while. "Im an original Xman, all these others are just newbies'. Blah blah blah. I like Lorna, she likes Havok, maybe I like men afterall. Loads of crap.

Gambit, who had all the potential in the world, was written to be nothing but Rogue's puppy. Then he loses his powers and becomes the most lame Death ever. Ugh.

Wolverine, my fav character ever, has been written so many directions it is insane. Now he knows his whole past? Part of his great allure was that he had no idea who he really was or where he came from.

Cyclops turns into the uber-*****e and hooks up with Emma? oooh...he's darker now that he was Cyclop-alypse for a little bit. Ooooh he's got more edge. NO...he just sucks more than he did before. At least before when he had the "boy scout" image I respected the character even if I didn't like him.

The Prof is written so poorly I wanted to strangle the writers. Oh, he's traditionally (with the exception of a questionable early lust for Jean) the uber-good guy idealist who does the right thing. Well, thats boring. Lets have him kill his sister in the womb, cover up the death of his first class of students and just come off as a dirtbag. Good call slapnuts.

So now they move to San Fran, because nothing screams great superhero stories like San Fran. Now they can maybe use their great abilities to help the struggle for gay marriage. Cyclops authorizes a friggin hit squad! Are you kidding me?

Oooh they are a new age of Xmen. They are more dark and brooding, less superheroes and more survival nuts. Giving up the dream, running away from NY, authorizing killing extreme threats. Yay..the friggin X-Men have become Magneto-esque. For gods sake, the struggle between Xavier's dream and Magneto's vision was one of the very best parts of the X-Men. Lets take that away and see what trash we can replace it with.

Oh...and tlets make sure to change the active roster every other month so there is no time for development in many cases. And throw in a few stupid "major events" that will "change the X-Men forever".

 

[Anubis]

I never really cared for the X-Men.

 

[kguillou]

I gotta say, NiteHawk013's got some really good points. Once the x-men became popular in the 90's, marvel's writers raped the s*** out of all the x-men characters. Not only that, there were so many X-books out, it was impossible to keep up with what was happening with them. I thought marvel had learned their lesson, but it seems like they're back to their old ways. Have they learned nothing from Joss whedon's run?? The reason why that run was so good, was because it took a simple "back to basics" approach. The roster was kept small and allowed for character development, now uncanny looks like it's going back to the Jim Lee days where there's like 20 different members. Oh well, i'm still optimistic about the new direction and i'm a sucker for Land's art. Tell me this doesnt look good: Uncanny X-men 500 preview:
http://comics.ign.com/articles/883/883853p1.html

 

[Nitehawk013]

I really can't fault all the 90's for the decline. It was the 91 relaunch that got me into comics.

It's just the things I saw starting after "Onslaught" and moving from then on.

It wasn't from having too many characters during the Jim Lee/Kubert years. They did have lots of chacters, but they split the team pretty stright into the Blue and Gold. Blue had the X-men book and Gold had Uncanny. There was a pretty large roster, but the writing for a time made it easy to keep up and allowed development. Each arc found a way to focus on smaller segments of the rosters. The first post launch arc in Xmen introduced Omega Red and focused on Wolvie while introducing Maverick as well. Then an arc focussed on Prof X's family past and introduced Hazard. There was an arc that told a lot about Gambit's past with a Ghost Rider appearance. Another arc focussed on Psylocke/Revanche.

Too many isn't the problem. The problem is when they are all jumbled together and never explored or grown. OR...when that focus/growth is completely assinine. I.E. Nightcrawler the son of satan. Chamber nailing a popstar.

 

[fifthfiend]

You gay? Quit catchin feelings

Did you just go from tactless to outright homophobic? Dang, dude.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Not sure how it was tactless to aknowledge the painfully obvious reason the X-Men are moving to San Fran.

Reason I asked if you were gay is because you're making the biggest deal out of this. Was wondering if you were offended somehow. You're either gay or bored.

 

[fifthfiend]

I am roused as any gentleman would be by your classlessness and lack of good taste.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Yet I see nobody else making a big deal about it

 

[fifthfiend]

They clearly want nothing to do with your uncouth behavior.

 

[Dread]

Amazing this topic has gone on this long and I haven't commented. A quick checklist about what I hate about the comics company that, deep down, I do love.

- Bendis.

- The fact that the editors appear to often trust line-wide events that carry ripple effects into every single book to writers who care more about stories than the characters in them, or about the superhero genre as a whole. I.E. Bendis, Millar.

- That they have on of the greatest and most well known superheroes ever created in Spider-Man and the powers-that-be have continued a near 20+ year practice of refusing to allow this character to mature past the Silver Age, to maintain any long term relationship with any woman who isn't his wrinkly aunt, and for wasting one of the few genuine gold-mine ideas that JMS inserted, working at Midtown High, to create new supporting characters. ONE MORE DAY was simply the latest turd in the mile long ****-rope of this practice. It was made even ****ier by Joe Q, with a straight face, telling us the Parker marriage in the 80's was a soulless stunt while simultaneously using ham-fisted narratives and more than one retcon mini-series to produce and invent a love between Ororo and T'Challa that never existed before in, let's call a spade a spade, a desperate appeal to black people. Not THAT's a shameless stunt.

- That Joe Q is just as much of a fan-baiting, ignorant, idiot-savant as Dan DiDio, but is able to prevail over Dan without even trying, therefore giving Marvel no urgency to be better. When it is better, it is due to writers and their desire, not editorial mandate.

- That the X-Men in some way or another have been the same bleak downer mess since the end of the 90's, and especially since the end of Morrison's run, a run that was itself a mess but at least had ideas that were worth exploring, rather than pigeon-holing.

- That Brian K. Vaughan sold more copies of a generic Wolverine story than he did for an excellent Dr. Strange story.

- That every single time in recent memory Marvel's promotion machine has selected some random launch title or ongoing title to pimp and sell via inserts inside every comic, it is ALWAYS some launch or ongoing that doesn't deserve it. To Marvel, it is a proper investment to pimp HOWLING COMMANDOS and MOON KNIGHT #20 than it was to promote, say, AGENTS OF ATLAS, RUNAWAYS, THE THING, THE ORDER, etc.

- That Joe Q has championed, for the modern age, the editorial practice of lying to a fan's face for a quick buck while simultaneously ripping into fans for their devotion and setting up no illusions about a "bullpen" or wanting to be a fan's chum. All the extra-honest "it's a business" trappings with a spoon-full of jackass to make it go down.

- That some great books telling great stories, even for crossover tie-in's, won't matter one whit to the event at large.

- That writers who DO care about characters and superhero comics and continuity as much as they do their stories will NEVER pen an event. EVER.

- That the one event that Brubaker managed to write was a piece of god damned ****. Granted, he wouldn't be the only writer who is solid on most books and then hits the skids on the X-Universe.

- The fact that anything Bendis writes is instantly canonized and supported line wide, or has to be given extreme effort by other writers to "explain away", whether it is a major plot of his or a minor detail. Yet if another writer does likewise, Bendis is free to dismiss it, and the editors just count their paychecks.

- That no one gave a damn about 'Ringo's last Marvel work, SPIDER-MAN & THE FANTASTIC FOUR, until after he suddenly died. And why? Because it, written by another under-appreciated talent, Jeff Parker, had everything modern Marvel comics avoid; characters acting appropriately, and an upbeat theme.

- That one is pressured into buying events that they know are going to ****, whether at the beginning, middle, or end, just to make sense of the books they DO read and enjoy.

- That NEW AVENGERS is the best selling ongoing in the industry. So many other infinitely better comics from Marvel, DC, and Image, and THIS outsells them all on a regular basis.

- That Marvel puts more effort into finding new ways for heroes to mistrust, hate, and fight each other than they ever do with any real villain; and when they do with a villain, they claim there is a middle ground to be debated to sow more mistrust. Seriously!? People on Marvel Earth are going to AGREE with the Skrulls taking over in upcoming FRONTLINE and other comics!? ARE YOU ****ING HIGH!? Marvel & Bendis give us an alien invasion storyline and they can't even get THAT to unify characters. That sort of story is SO a point of unification that nearly every modern team cartoon has used it to solidify their intro.

- That Marvel cares more about destroying genuine, built-for-decades character relationships than they do about creating new ones, hence why whenever a new one is made, they go with the impatient methods of retcon or ham-fisted storytelling.

- That Marvel's animated DTV division are full of hacks who are slaves to networks even when no network is there to be enslaved to.

- Gimmick line-wide covers. First Zombies, now Skrulls, and coming up, Monkeys (as if DC hasn't been doing that for decades). Seriously, these covers are never as clever as anyone thinks and all get overdone and overused fast.