EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

[KRYPTON INC.]

As shown by the art you posted, African looking WW and Supes is nothing new in the DCU.

 

[mace1]

Calvin Ellis

Action Comics #9.

Calvin Ellis, Kryptonian name Kalel, also known as Superman, is a Kryptonian president of the United States, on a different Earth in the Multiverse. On his Earth, he became Superman in addition to being the president. It is likely he's native to Vathlo Island, due to his reference to the word Vathlo.



He operates from the White House, where Brainiac serves as his personal computer and even covers for him while he does his duties as Superman. ("Final Crisis")

Final Crisis

Post-Crisis Continuity

During Final Crisis, this Superman joined a a team of different versions of Superman from the Multiverse. ("Final Crisis")



New 52 Continuity

Born to Jorel and Lara in the science capital on Vathlo Island on Krypton, baby Kalel was sent to Earth to escape Krypton's destruction. He was found and raised by a human couple. As an adult, he operated as Superman while also serving as the President of the United States.



One day, inhabitants from an alternate Earth came through to his Earth, fleeing from their universe's Superman, who they had created. When the evil Superman came through, Superman fought him and won, with the help of Lex Luthor. ("The Curse of Superman")



Superman also interferes directly in his country's international affairs, using his powers as Superman. Shortly after the encounter with the alternate Superman, he destroyed all of Bialya's nuclear facilities, and then invited them to join the international community. ("Executive Power")





Behind the Scenes

Calvin Ellis is based on real-life President Barack Obama.





The real Barack Obama is the 44th president of the United States. Prior to being elected, he once joked on TV that he was sent to Earth from the dying planet Krypton, by his father, Jor-El.


He was later added to Final Crisis #7 as a version of Superman. Writer Grant Morrison confirmed that the character was intended to be Barack Obama.


The character was unnamed in his first appearance in Final Crisis, and so was assumed to simply be Barack Obama. However, with the release of Action Comics #9, his name was revealed to be Calvin Ellis. He also had the Kryptonian name of Kalel.



There was previously another black Superman in Legends of the DC Universe: Crisis on Infinite Earths (Feb. 1999). This version lives on Earth-D, which featured a more ethnically diverse version of several Earth-One heroes, such as an Asian Flash and an American Indian Green Arrow. The Earth-D heroes had never experienced major tragedies in their lives. It was a combination of modern multi-cultural sensibilities combined with Silver-Age-style innocence.

The real life Obama in Metropolis, Illinois.



http://superman.wikia.com/wiki/Calvin_Ellis






Vathlo island exist in mainstream dc comics first.The black superman comes from the parallel universe one.

Vathlo Island



Vathlo Island is an island nation on Krypton which was not part of the planetary federation. Nevertheless, it had an advanced society. The majority of the populace seems to be black. Indeed, many of the black Kryptonians who survived the destruction of the planet, originally came from Vathlo.

Vathlo Island.

 

[Paradox1]

I think most people will be fine with a black superman aslong as the word alternate universe appears somewhere in the synopsis.

 

[Dr. Evil]

So umm...what happened to T'Challa?

And I don't think Marvel's reluctance to do BP has anything to do with race.

 

[mace1]

I will post some more info for those who might not know about this.

Vathlo Island



Vathlo Island is a fictional location on the planet of Krypton in the DC Comics universe.


Publication history
Vathlo Island is a Kryptonian island continent similar to Australia and populated by a "highly developed black race" of Kryptonians, and "retained its independence throughout history and did not join the planetary federation, though good relations were maintained". Black Kryptonians were first shown in Superman #234, with the island itself shown on a map in #239. Vathlo was rarely if ever referenced beyond these few issues, although a black Kryptonian named "Iph-Ro of Vathlo" appeared in the more recent Superman: The Man of Steel #111. An offhand reference to the island was made in Alan Moore's story For the Man Who Has Everything, where "racial trouble with the Vathlo Island immigrants," are mentioned in a dream world Krypton that had avoided destruction. It is believed, based on the appearances of black Kryptonians in recent Superman issues, that the Vathlonians eventually were integrated into Krypton proper.

In Final Crisis #7, an alternate version of Superman (modeled after Barack Obama) from one of the 52 realities of the multiverse is featured. This Superman resembles an African-American and is revealed to originate from the science-capital of Krypton: Jandra-La on the Krypton of Earth-23 in Action Comics #9.

In Superman: World of New Krypton #4, it is established that Vathlo Islanders settled in Kandor prior to the destruction of Krypton.


Other media
While the island itself has not appeared or even referenced in the television series Smallville, African-looking/dark-skinned Kryptonians have been featured. One was a disciple of Zod, who goes by the name Nam-Ek (portrayed by Leonard Roberts). Another was named Basqat (played by Adrian Holmes).


Vathlo Island

Vathlo Island, from map of Krypton in Superman #239 (Sal Amendola, artist).





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vathlo_Island



Vathlo Island

 

[bubbadoom]

I don't even know how Blade got made before BP and I loved the Blade movies(at least the first two, the third sucked). I hate the comic character but which is my point. Blade is a D list hero who helped launch the whole comic book movie craze. While the first black superhero is still gathering dust on the shelf waiting for his opportunity.

I am sure Blade was a cheaper property to option and produce - in a time when Marvel was box office poison - that's how it got made before BP.

 

[mace1]

I think most people will be fine with a black superman aslong as the word alternate universe appears somewhere in the synopsis.

Yeah i know.
Let me post one more thing on this.
This is dealing with alternate and mainstream dc comics.



I will post more info that came out a few years ago.

Brady, Matt. "Superman's planet is racially diverse-finally", MSNBC.com, January 7, 2009. Retrieved January 11, 2009.



Superman's planet is racially diverse-finally


By Matt Brady

updated 1/7/2009 2:39:15 PM ET

For those keeping their eyes open, there was a welcome return in last week’s Superman #683 in Part 9 of the “New Krypton” storyline (featuring 100,000 Kryptonians like Superman coming to earth) – non-white Kryptonians were clearly shown.

For those keeping their eyes open, there was a welcome return in last week’s Superman #683 comic book (featuring 100,000 Kryptonians like Superman coming to earth) — non-white Kryptonians were clearly shown.


There had been some “squint and you can see them” individuals in group shots earlier in the storyline, but the Sergio Leone-style “showdown” page showed the Kryptonian-equivalent of Africans and Asians. (Preview of Superman #683 here.)

Big deal?

Well, kind of. By and large, superheroes are still the domain of the idealized white man (and woman). For the character's first 30 years, Superman’s homeworld of Krypton was all-white. It was only in 1971 —33 years after Superman's debut in 1938 — that the first non-white Kryptonian was seen. A few months later, the idea of non-white Kryptonians was expanded upon.

“In issue #239, a two-page map showed that Kryptonians of color had an island all to themselves, which is pretty embarrassing,” says Mark Waid, Boom! Studios Editor-in-Chief, occasional DC Comics writer, and pretty much expert in all things Superman.

“I cringe to tell you this, but the Kryptonians of Color were all on ‘Vathlo Island, Home of a Highly Advanced Black Race.’ It wasn't until the mid-70s, when more ‘World of Krypton’ back-up stories ran more regularly, that we really saw any ethnicity whatsoever on the planet.”

While he’s not sure of how exactly Krypton's population diversified, Waid figures that it had to do with E. Nelson Bridwell, the assistant on the Superman books at the time. “He took a special interest in ‘caretaking’ the history and fictional culture of Krypton,” Waid says. “More than anyone else who ever lived, Nelson knew that world.”


Much like other mono-cultural planets of the Golden Age of science fiction, Krypton was a product of its time.

“A lack of ethnicity was an eror of omission, and I'm not sure given the time that it's fair to call that ‘racist,’” Waid says.

Superman creators Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, and all those who followed in crafting the Superman legend were, indeed, simply following the traditions of the Golden Age of Science Fiction, when one world always equaled one culture, maybe two if they were at war because the plot demanded it.

9 comic book characters to watch
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28439114/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/comic-book-characters-watch/


Remember, as absurd as this sounds in an America finally enlightened enough to elect a black man as President, the Civil Rights Act wasn't passed until 1964. The gradual recognition of all races and ethnicities across all of pop culture, comics included, really didn't start to blossom until the late 1960s.

Yes, Superman was weirdly late to that party — the first African-American even in a Superman story, and it's from the summer of 1970. But again, and not to make excuses, that delay was just creative inertia in action.

After the start of a diverse Krypton in the early ‘70s, it was left up to creators and editors to make sure that Krypton was racially diverse, and it was occasionally shown to be — if the story allowed. Throughout its rather ignoble history, Vathlo Island remained undeveloped and unexplored by writers, which is both good and bad, probably. One interesting idea that was floated in the very brief mention of Vathlo in Krypton's history was that there was no slave trade on Krypton, which is why races didn't really mix — or at least why some of Jor-El's best friends weren't black.


More often than not though, the planet of Superman’s birth has been shown to be made up of just one race, even in crowd scenes. As a quick aside, "Smallville," an alternate retelling of Clark Kent's younger years on The WB/CW has shown Nam-Ek, a Kryptonian equivalent of African-American.

But with “New Krypton,” story architects Geoff Johns, James Robinson and Sterling Gates have been working to merge all aspects of Krypton that have been shown over the years, making all the visions and versions into a workable whole — including the fact that the planet was racially diverse — and hopefully without the segregation of Vathlo Island. Here's hoping for a more colorful Krypton.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28543087/?gt1=43001/#.U0JA5KKQjo0










and
supermen-of-color-the-non-white-kryptonians


http://www.newsarama.com/1890-supermen-of-color-the-non-white-kryptonians.html

 

[Paradox1]

I am sure Blade was a cheaper property to option and produce - in a time when Marvel was box office poison - that's how it got made before BP.

I've heard the BP movie was in the works before Blade with Wesley Snipes ready to star till things fell apart.

 

[bubbadoom]

So umm...what happened to T'Challa?

And I don't think Marvel's reluctance to do BP has anything to do with race.

I don't see that they are "reluctant" at all - rather they are taking the time to do it right...they say they have their movies laid out to 2028 - I am sure he's in there somewhere...

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Chitwetal being part of the next Bond film could accelerate a BP film.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I thought this was the Black Panther thread, whats with all this black superman business?

 

[mace1]

So it seems that for Smallville tv show Nam-Ek is black but for the movie man of steel he is not.

Man of steel went backwards on race.


See in the man of steel we don't get a clear view on his face.

Here is clear image of him but it's a toy.

http://geek-news.mtv.com/2013/06/05/man-of-steels-namek-toy/


So who was the tall Kryptonian?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Nam-Ek is not that big a character to give two craps about. For that matter, neither is the "Black" Kryptonians of the DCU. Or Nubia. How about we post things about the full fledged African superhero that is The Black Panther, Hmmm?

 

[mace1]

I thought this was the Black Panther thread, whats with all this black superman business?

It was reply to a early comment because i keep hearing sometimes there are no folks of color in these other places OR HOW COME SUPERMAN CAN'T BE BLACK ETC..

So even if they are not mainstream in DC IT'S STILL INTERESTING TO POINT OUT THEY EXISTS JUST in case it's brought up again.

Val maybe will become more mainstream in earth 2 however,of course that's still not mainstream dc,but i will connect it too the black panther subject.

This chat should be in race and gender thread.





Now getting back more to the subject,could this happen to wakanda?you know do the opposite,since blacks and asians were shown in countries, planets that were once shown as only white, could they carried away and show whites and asians living in wakanda?

Some folks say no but you never know.The could change the history in a reboot or for the movies.

I hope not.

Remember just because they may make a movie that does not mean they will stick to the source material as much as they can,so be careful what you ask for.

If they plan to do major changes i rather they not make a black panther movie.
Now a live tv show or live mini-series and having it stick to the source material i will welcome.

 

[chamber-music]

I think you guys need to keep in my mind why and when Marvel choose to adapt certain characters.

We are only in phase two of Marvel movies right now. The first phase was clearly setting up the prime Avengers characters. Phase two with the exception of GoTG has been sequels to the films from phase 1. Black Panther was always unlikely to get a movie in phase 1 and most likely phase 2.

There was no guarantee Marvels grand cinematic universe plan was even going to work in the first place.

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver are in the Avengers because Joss said he wanted characters with different visual powers to add to the Avengers line up from the first film.

Ant-Man is basically Edgar Wrights pet project which he and Joe Cornish had been shopping around Hollywood since 2003. Edgar was the first director to approach Feige about a movie when Marvel Studios began and Feige is a fan of Edgars and really believes in him. Feige had said he would even make a third marvel movie in a year to fit Ant-Man in.

Guardians Of The Galaxy got made because Marvel wanted something different for the audience and for themselves so that they don't lose interest.

I don't even know how Blade got made before BP and I loved the Blade movies(at least the first two, the third sucked). I hate the comic character but which is my point. Blade is a D list hero who helped launch the whole comic book movie craze. While the first black superhero is still gathering dust on the shelf waiting for his opportunity.

Wesley Snipes had the pick of making a Blade or Black Panther movie in the 90's and he choose Blade.

Keep in mind many movie studios were still not completely sold on comic movies in the 90's outside of Batman and Superman. Avi Arad has talked about trying to sell the movie rights to Spider-Man in the 90's and getting laughed out of almost every studio in Hollywood when he said the character was worth millions. Blade being so obscure and the movie being more of a action horror film made the character more palatable to the studio.

Of course you do realize that Black Panther is NOT an Af-Am character - so why would you insist on an Af-Am director?

I think Marvel will tap Steve McQueen for the job...

Steve McQueen isn't interested. McQueen says he only wants to make movies about real life stuff.

I don't think Black Panther needs a black director just someone who is a fan, has the right vision/concept for the film and understands the material.

I like CAGE. Really. But... I'd rather that the first black superhero to see a big budget treatment be BP. Sorry, but BP tell kids to imagine being genius Kings. Luke gives cover to the idea that prison is just another right of passage to black male youth. Something about that's been more and more unsettling to me as I've grown older.

Luke Cage doesn't give the idea prison is a right of passage for black males

Cage is framed in the comics and if anything he actually gives a positive message to young people that you can turn your life around and do some good.

Something that gets ignored to often in the comics regarding the character is that teenage Carl Lucas/Luke Cage took a look at where his life was going and the effect being in a gang was having on his family and turned his back on crime and gang life. Cage didn't need his uncle being murdered to decide to do the right thing.

Cage actually had never been in a adult prison in the comics until he was framed.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You'll forgive me, but your finer points are mostly ignored. The fact is, no matter the specifics, most look on Cage as the black super hero that went to prison, and it's something highlighted about him as a character. I am not saying that Luke isn't any of the things you say. But, he too easily plays into certain stereotypes.

 

[chamber-music]

People projecting their racial prejudices onto a character is their issue not the fault of the characters which is my point.

There are numerous superheroes in the comics who do terrible things but aren't as harshly judged upon. I'm not interested in validating peoples racist views and I don't think we as black people should encourage it either by supporting those views.

When you have characters like Wonder Man who embezzles money, Hawkeye is a reluctant crook, Black Widow a violent murderer, Ant-Man a burglar and Iron Man a manipulative lying womaniser dumping on the one guy who just so happens to be black because he got sent to prison after having heroin planted in his apartment is a ridiculous double standard.

 

[mace1]

That's marvel.

It's suppose to be MORE grounded right?AND DEALING more with real world problems and DC less so,of course over years both have inspired each other,so DC has become abit more like marvel and marvel ABIT more like DC.

So really there is not much difference anymore,it's still there but less so.

Look on the bright side,luke cage is going to BE shown for the first time in live action.
I think the tv show will do him more justice overall in the end.

More detailed stories for all superheroes could be told better on tv by the way.


Movies are just for the less hardcore and more for the causal audience,you know folks who could really care less about superheroes.They just want a good enough story and action.


If a black panther story makes it to a live action movie fine,but in the end a tv series or short one is better overall.

You could tell more of the story.
Anyway it's going to be the most famous superheroes most of time to make to a live action movie.

 

[Space Ghost]

That's marvel.

It's suppose to be grounded right?AND DEALING more with real world problems and DC less so,of course over years both have inspired each other,so DC has become abit more like marvel and marvel ABIT more like DC.

So really there is not much difference anymore,it's still there but less so.

Look on the bright side,luke cage is going to BE shown for the first time in live action.
I think the tv show will do him more justice overall in the end.

More detailed stories for all superheroes could be told better on tv by the way.


Movies are just for the less hardcore and more for the causal audience,you know folks who could really care less about superheroes.They just want a good enough story and action.


If a black panther story makes it to a live action movie fine,but in the end a tv series or short one is better overall.

You could tell more of the story.
Anyway it's going to be the most famous superheroes most of time to make to a live action movie.

That´s why directors don´t give a damn about what comic book readers want.

 

[mace1]

That´s why directors don´t give a damn about what comic book readers want.

That' my point.

You know what i was thinking? i was thinking about the show arrow.

DC has the right idea about this.
We know that green arrow will most likely never reach the big screen or have his own movie,so creating a tv show finally will FINALLY DO HIM justice for live action.

Marvel could and should created a separate live action marvel universe on tv once phrase 3 for the live action movies are over with.
Special effects have gotten better for tv too.

We all know that certain superheroes from marvel just like dc will never make it to the live action universe,so a marvel tv show could be made.

You know for a couple of weeks have a superhero to focus on or there could be a tv version of the avengers,x-men,hulk,the sentry etc.... etc.....

Something that netflix is doing but separate from the marvel cinematic universe.

Look at stargate,buffy,etc..

They had movies that did not do those stories justice and look how well it came out on tv,so movies are not the only answer.

I think tv should be more of a focus in the long run because it will be made more so for the hardcore comic fan then the movies.

Both are for causal fans but movies more so,that's why they could change stuff around like they did with MY TRANSFOMERS.

ARE YOU LISTENING MR. BAY?


Anyway i think in the long run this will be the best way,besides you could tell stories and show places and stuff that will never make to the big screen.
You could show more superheroes on smaller screen that will most likely never be shown on the big screen or not anytime soon,like blue marvel,frenzy,rage, the externals,black goliath.the egyptian gods and other african gods world of marvel and showing darwin and how he really is etc.. etc...

Look at how well the recent battlestar galactica tv show did.

No way a movie could have told the story that well like tv.

To tell you the truth tv versions overall could do a better job in story and telling more detail.

I wou;d really like to see another Green lantern movie but focus on john stewart,but i don't think DC WILL DO IT,and if they do then so be it,but the green lantern story and corps could be done better overall on tv then the movies.

There are just some stories that work better for tv then live action big screen movies.

The shaka zulu mini-series is a perfect example of this.

It was on tv and it had a large audience.

Alexander of macedon is story for example that works better as a min-series then movie.

It's JUST TO LARGE IN SCOPE FOR BIG SCREEN MOVIE.

DC HAS THE RIGHT IDEA,but they too could expand on it too.

They are keeping their tv universe separate from dc cinematic universe.

To tell you the truth i would be just as happy with a black panther live tv show as i would with a live action movie.

In some ways more happy with the latter because more folks will get to know who he is abit worldwide,but overall i will be just as happy or more so if it's on the smaller screen,separate or not from the marvel universe.

In the end i rather have the characters story done well enough then having it on the big screen and major changes are done just to reach audiences who could really care less about this great superhero.

If we could have both movie version or any tv version fine,but a tv show etc..should not be counted out.

In the end it should be more of a focus.
That for all other superheros.

As for the black superheroes ,i think the black movie makers and black nations need to step up more like some asian nations and find a way to push or created more black superheroes and make tv shows and movies about them.

 

[mace1]

I KNOW THERE ARE SOME FOLKS THAT WOULD NOT REALLY WATCH A SUPERHERO TV SHOW OR STICK WITH IT IF THEY START WATCHING THEM , THAT'S WHY TV MOVIES OR A NUMBER OF MINI-SERIES WILL BE THE BEST WAY TO GO MOST OF THE TIME LIKE THE UPCOMING DEFENDERS NETFLIX SHOW.


Super Power Beat Down.

Look at these videos


These actors and their costumes and how they fight AND ACT AND LOOK are closer to the comics and animated shows then the movies.


So tv shows or the smaller screen could work if done right.


Take a look at these videos.


SUPERMAN vs THOR - Super Power Beat Down (Episode 7 ...



WOLVERINE vs PREDATOR - Super Power Beat Down (Episode 9 ...





CAPTAIN AMERICA vs MASTER CHIEF - Super Power Beat Down ...


Check out inside

BATMAN vs DEADPOOL - Super Power Beat Down (Episode 8)

I did not post the link because there are some cursing and do not want to get in trouble here.

 

[Chance Jackson]

I like CAGE. Really. But... I'd rather that the first black superhero to see a big budget treatment be BP. Sorry, but BP tell kids to imagine being genius Kings. Luke gives cover to the idea that prison is just another right of passage to black male youth. Something about that's been more and more unsettling to me as I've grown older.

A little bit of this

 

[Dr. Evil]

Can we stop talking about Black Superman?

For me, Marvel not willing to do BP for now has nothing to do with his race. I think it has everything to do with how to portray Wakanda properly. If there's a major city in Wakanda I'd imagine it looks more like this (Nairobi, Kenya):

Or this (Cape Town, South Africa):

rather than this (Singapore):

But who knows. Maybe someone else sees Wakanda's major city akin to Singapore or Dubai rather than Nairobi or Cape Town. Or is it like as it is in the comics?

 

[DrCosmic]

Only if they work out Zoe Saldana's schedule. She's shooting the next three Avatar movies all in a row, and who knows how long those three films will take.

I hear that GOTG2 could also feature the Hulk.

It could also feature Ms. Marvel, depending on how they want to roll it.

The Avatar sequels start shooting this fall and the first one will be released December 2016. [Source] So Zoe should be free to shoot from mid-late 2016 for a mid-late 2017 film.

You'll forgive me, but your finer points are mostly ignored. The fact is, no matter the specifics, most look on Cage as the black super hero that went to prison, and it's something highlighted about him as a character. I am not saying that Luke isn't any of the things you say. But, he too easily plays into certain stereotypes.

I would agree with this. It's an unfortunate effect of the character being developed in that era. Not as bad as BP's issues, but it's an issue.

People projecting their racial prejudices onto a character is their issue not the fault of the characters which is my point.

There are numerous superheroes in the comics who do terrible things but aren't as harshly judged upon. I'm not interested in validating peoples racist views and I don't think we as black people should encourage it either by supporting those views.

When you have characters like Wonder Man who embezzles money, Hawkeye is a reluctant crook, Black Widow a violent murderer, Ant-Man a burglar and Iron Man a manipulative lying womaniser dumping on the one guy who just so happens to be black because he got sent to prison after having heroin planted in his apartment is a ridiculous double standard.

I think the issue is that its not a coincidence. It's not a coincidence that Luke Cage, unlike Hawkeye or Iron Man is a guy from a rough neighborhood who is grew up with some petty criminals. It's also not a coincidence that Luke Cage got sent to jail. These are things that are associated with black people. To write it off as a coincidence, and say it's the same as a white character having a random flaw that is not at all associated with stereotypes of their race is not being fair, it's ignoring history. If you're not interested in validating people's racist views, then you wouldn't support a character like Cage who validates the racist viewpoint that black people are naturally more prone to end up in prison. So for me, not validating those viewpoints means pointing out that Luke Cage supports that viewpoint, and at the very least acknowledging it. To someone who has that view point, taking it as a coincidence is actually supporting their racist viewpoint.

 

[The_Manhunter]

The Cap 3 writers hinted at 1950's Cap, but I think the Russos will make the ultimate decision on that. There's an update on that:

http://www.craveonline.com/film/int...a-the-winter-soldier-video-spoiler-interviews

I think Carol Danvers fills the untitled 2017 Slot after Thor 3. Her story is cosmic and fits more the Avengers 3 storyline than T'Challa.

But Marvel's pattern so far per year (1 cosmic, 1 Earth-based) makes me think 2017 will be Thor 3 and then Black Panther. Just makes sense to me.