Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - Part 39

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Fox owns the film rights to the Xmen characters and the FF characters. They can do a crossover and use it as a soft reboot. And Marvel is likely to get in the way of that.
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Owning the rights to 2 IPs doesn't mean you can use them jointly in 1 project. Not unless it's specifically stated in the legal contracts that gave you rights to those IPs.
This has been discussed numerous times on various threads in these boards.

Singer and Kinberg and a few others have made comments about it, but that's a long way from official studio communications. It might be just a way of testing the waters to see if they should even attempt to negotiate the possibility of doing such a project.

I personally don't think they can do it.
 
Holy s***! :eek:

"Here’s the Thing About ‘Fantastic Four’: It’s Pretty Terrible (Review)"
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/heres-the-thing-about-fantastic-four-its-125872066562.html

M'kay. I'm calling it now: this film is going to have serious trouble. Todd McCarthy is one of the few major critics who's known for being a big fan of comic book movies in general. So if he's saying the movie blew it...what else is there to say? :dry:
 
The Russos didn't fill Winter Soldier with jokes. Doctor Strange sounds like it will be very dark and borderline horror. Marvel is trying different things with their Netflix ventures. Why is this a bad thing? On one hand you have folks complaining about the so called "Marvel formula" and on the other hand you have folks complaining "why is one thing not like the other?"

Fortunately the Russos were dead serious when they needed to be. However, while I haven't seen the Winter Soldier since it came out, and I'll admit, I might be wrong, I do remember a lot of jokes. One stands out: that stupid Apple store guy. That completely ruined the tension in that scene. Yet yes, Marvel films are amazing, they do have too much humor a lot of times, but sometimes that's good, I mean Ant-Man was amazing. The Marvel formula doesn't ever appear to be make something a comedy, it just appears to be don't get too serious if you don't need to, which isn't always bad.

Dr. Strange hasn't even entered production yet, just because of the director you can't say. It's like saying a tree would've penetrated Mary Jane because Sam Raimi wrote and directed the film. Yeah, Marvel is trying great new things with their Netflix movies and hopefully with Civil War as well. Hopefully.
 
all_of_me__matt_murdock_daredevil_x_reader__pt_1_by_sscejm4a-d8zkokw.jpg

Case closed

:up:
 
You're right, they did one better in what was essentially a 13 hour movie.


That's actually a good way to describe the series. It's my favorite slice of Marvel at the moment.

I know AoS is a different beast that DD and Agent Carter, but I think it would fair better going the 8-13 episode route...but again, studios don't cater to my needs...

ETA: Side note, hopefully I can check out Ant-Man and FF this weekend.
 
Fox owns the film rights to the Xmen characters and the FF characters. They can do a crossover and use it as a soft reboot. And Marvel is likely to get in the way of that.

Fox doesn't own the film rights, they are leased in perpetuity. There are restrictions on what they can do with them.
 
Originally Posted by sleekstereo
See my fear is that IF FF goes back to Marvel, it won't be too long until fanboys start campaigning for X-Men to go back, which is possibly the worst option for X-Men.

If the Xmen films continue to be a success, you won't be seeing much of those talks. Take Deadpool for example. I see almost nothing but positive word on that film amongst the fans. People will only be asking for Xmen to go back if Fox starts churning out less than stellar Xmen films like they have Fantastic Four films.

It isn't a matter o studio bias, its a matter o wanting good films and portrayals.

yeah sleek.. that's not what's happening or what will happen unless the X-men films begin to fall in quality...

but here is what is (and always has been an issue with the X-men franchise) in a % scale of what is genuinely considered favorable by a fan base.. and what's not i'd put franchises like Batman, The Avengers, and Harry Potter at 100%, Spider-man at like 85%, and X-men at around 70%

the franchise is never a record breaker... and the franchise is at about 50% good and 50% bad in terms of films.... couple that with the fact an issue that's always been a problem amongst comic fans about the X-franchise is how like 70% of the cast is a hollow shadow of who they are in the comics... majority of everyone is completely changed to the point where the only things recognizable are there Power sets... some have more spot on looks then others.. but the characterizations are a bigger issue in many opinions.

But that being said, the good x-men films make up for that.. with great stories and acting that help everyone look past that. But the films have and will always have people who have some valid complaints for them or hope they will feel more like the comics... and the new trilogy really has started to feel "closer" to that.. it's still got quite a ways to go.. but it's inching closer with each new film.

But yes, that being said, the X-franchise will stay at a steady pace of about 70% regardless of how the fantastic four does... but if the quality fails.. or the make another stinker like X3 or XO:W... then yeah... their will likely be a push for the rights to revert much like with what happened here with the Fantastic Four.

Oh, and PS. Unlike the F4... the X-men are probably one of the better contained marvel properties.. their social turmoil has never really made much sense among-st the marvel world of civilians... the civilians fear mutants, but celebrate the Fantastic Four.... if you're "born that way" you're terrifying.. but if you are in a freak science accident, you're celebrated. the logic really doesn't add up... so there's quite alot of people who are perfectly happy with the X-men staying at FOX... so I really don't think you will have a Fantastic Four situation on your hands...

the Fantastic Four are actually quite neutered with FOX so many of their great classic stories can't really be told... and thus they really can't be used to their full potential. Namor, Inhumans, quite alot of cosmic stuff, majority of the Frightful Four, Black Panther, the micro-verse... all of that stuff is off-limits.. it makes alot more sense for the first family to return to marvel than the X-men, who really only share a couple of mutants with the rest of the MU (wolverine, beast, firestar, magneto, and wanda and pietro i'd wager are really the only big ones)
 
If the Xmen films continue to be a success, you won't be seeing much of those talks. Take Deadpool for example. I see almost nothing but positive word on that film amongst the fans. People will only be asking for Xmen to go back if Fox starts churning out less than stellar Xmen films like they have Fantastic Four films.

It isn't a matter o studio bias, its a matter o wanting good films and portrayals.

Exactly! You wont see XMen and Deadpool getting sent over to Marvel.

But reading that Marvel owns the merchandising on X-Men, I can see trades potentially going on and some of the characters going back to Marvel. Such as the Cosmic characters and Fantastic Four.

It is unreal how bad Fox has ruined such a iconic villain in Dr. Doom.
 
Fortunately the Russos were dead serious when they needed to be. However, while I haven't seen the Winter Soldier since it came out, and I'll admit, I might be wrong, I do remember a lot of jokes. One stands out: that stupid Apple store guy. That completely ruined the tension in that scene. Yet yes, Marvel films are amazing, they do have too much humor a lot of times, but sometimes that's good, I mean Ant-Man was amazing. The Marvel formula doesn't ever appear to be make something a comedy, it just appears to be don't get too serious if you don't need to, which isn't always bad.

Dr. Strange hasn't even entered production yet, just because of the director you can't say. It's like saying a tree would've penetrated Mary Jane because Sam Raimi wrote and directed the film. Yeah, Marvel is trying great new things with their Netflix movies and hopefully with Civil War as well. Hopefully.

Well I can only speak for myself but I enjoy the humor. I feel humor has been essential to Marvel in selling the audience on very difficult concepts. Can Marvel tone it down? Definitely. Would I like the drama ratcheted up a bit more in future films? Absolutely. They better not screw up Thanos. He needs to scare you. Kingpin scared the crap out of me. Winter Soldier was downright scary too. I thought Kurse was scary but his role is overshadowed by other perceived faults in that film. Even Yellowjacket was kind of scary and creepy in that scene in Cassie's room. Ultron could have been a lot scarier. But I still really liked his character. That was Joss's choice and I don't let it ruin the movie for me. But I digress...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that humor is just as important as drama and tension and the tone has to suit the material you are adapting. With the Fantastic Four IMO you need a lot of humor. The one thing I love about FF comics is they always made me laugh. I would expect a film about the FF to do the same thing. The jokes in Tim Story's films mostly fell flat but I appreciated what he was trying to achieve. I think Trank and Kinberg's attempt to make a "dark and gritty" FF film was an epic fail from the get-go. Wrong property.
 
And Id just like to draw attention to something. WB also at one time **** the bed pretty badly with Batman. WB made one bad Batman film in 1995 and a truly atrocious Batman film in 1997 and batman fans thought that property was dead. Then WB hired a relatively unknown director and in 2005 released one hell of a Batman film then Nolan blew most people away in 2008 with TDK, and him and WB gave us a pretty good Batman film in 2012. Now we have Snyder doing a Batman thats ripped straight from the comics. My point is that just because Fox hasnt made a F4 film thats good yet doesnt mean they are incapable of it.

Its no guarantee, but if WB can turn Batman around with Nolan, and Fox can turn Xmen around with Singer maybe Fox can find a way to pull their head out of their ass and make a good F4 film.

So even if Fox doesnt sell the rights back to Marvel Studios I dont think thats a guarantee that we will never have a good F4 film.
 
Holy s***! :eek:

"Here’s the Thing About ‘Fantastic Four’: It’s Pretty Terrible (Review)"
https://www.yahoo.com/movies/heres-the-thing-about-fantastic-four-its-125872066562.html

M'kay. I'm calling it now: this film is going to have serious trouble. Todd McCarthy is one of the few major critics who's known for being a big fan of comic book movies in general. So if he's saying the movie blew it...what else is there to say? :dry:

Stop pretending to be so shocked...I knew it, you knew it, and everyone knows it even if they are hoping this film to be good that this product will be colossal trash.
 
I would think if any "rights deal" was to happen, FOX would want something similar to SONY's Spider-Man deal. Lend the Four to Marvel for big event films, but retain the right to make solo adventures/crossover movies

I'm sure that FOX would love that deal. But they don't have the juice to get it done. I love the FF, but they're hardly in the class of Spidey, the world's most popular superhero. And Marvel's most profitable character, even without holding his cinematic rights.

And after three complete misfires, do you actually think FOX wants to throw more money away in yet another reboot?
 
I'm going to see it and decide for myself!

.......and I can have any seat in the place.
 
And Id just like to draw attention to something. Fox made two questionable F4 films a decade ago, and they made a dud with this one. WB made one bad Batman film in 1995 and a truly atrocious Batman film in 1997 and batman fans thought that property was dead. Then WB hired a relatively unknown director and in 2005 released one hell of a Batman film then Nolan blew most people away in 2008 with TDK, and he gave u a pretty good Batman film in 2012. Now we have Snyder doing a Batman thats ripped straight from the comics. My point is that just because Fox hasnt made a F4 film thats good yet doesnt mean they are incapable of it.

Its no guarantee, but if WB can turn Batman around with Nolan and Fox can turn Xmen around with Singer maybe Fox can find a way to pull their head out of their ass and make a good F4 film.

So even if Fox doesnt sell the rights back to Marvel Studios I font think thats a guarantee that we will never have a good F4 film.

Several things:

-Batman is an innately cooler character that is easier to adapt
-Batman has a much stronger appeal with mainstream audiences; there is more of an incentive to get him right because they know there is a huge audience for that character
-It's not just that Fox has screwed up this property three times, it's that this is the 7th awful Marvel film from them in a little over a decade. This is a continued record of incompetence without Bryan Singers involvement
-Fox has made it abundantly clear in every one of their actions that this is a property they don't care enough about to get right
 
And Id just like to draw attention to something. WB also at one time **** the bed pretty badly with Batman. WB made one bad Batman film in 1995 and a truly atrocious Batman film in 1997 and batman fans thought that property was dead. Then WB hired a relatively unknown director and in 2005 released one hell of a Batman film then Nolan blew most people away in 2008 with TDK, and him and WB gave us a pretty good Batman film in 2012. Now we have Snyder doing a Batman thats ripped straight from the comics. My point is that just because Fox hasnt made a F4 film thats good yet doesnt mean they are incapable of it.

Its no guarantee, but if WB can turn Batman around with Nolan, and Fox can turn Xmen around with Singer maybe Fox can find a way to pull their head out of their ass and make a good F4 film.

So even if Fox doesnt sell the rights back to Marvel Studios I dont think thats a guarantee that we will never have a good F4 film.

I appreciate your optimism but Burton's Batman was a smash hit back in 89 and was followed up with a critical success in Batman Returns. Sure the property dipped under Schumacher but the studio confidence was there. They knew there was value in the property. The Fantastic Four brand is toxic now. It's never known success in film and Fox is responsible for the brand's demise. Each film progressively earns less and yet this is a property that demands an "all-in" level of commitment. Where does the budget come from?

I had a hard enough time understanding people who supported this third attempt by Fox. If Fox tries to make yet another go at it, I think that any fans that rally around that notion need to have their heads examined. How many failures can the Fantastic Four endure?
 
Stop pretending to be so shocked...I knew it, you knew it, and everyone knows it even if they are hoping this film to be good that this product will be colossal trash.

Oh, I'm not shocked that the film is s***--I called that months ago. I'm shocked at how badly McCarthy came down on the film--usually he likes everything Marvel.
 
And Id just like to draw attention to something. WB also at one time **** the bed pretty badly with Batman. WB made one bad Batman film in 1995 and a truly atrocious Batman film in 1997 and batman fans thought that property was dead. Then WB hired a relatively unknown director and in 2005 released one hell of a Batman film then Nolan blew most people away in 2008 with TDK, and him and WB gave us a pretty good Batman film in 2012. Now we have Snyder doing a Batman thats ripped straight from the comics. My point is that just because Fox hasnt made a F4 film thats good yet doesnt mean they are incapable of it.

Its no guarantee, but if WB can turn Batman around with Nolan, and Fox can turn Xmen around with Singer maybe Fox can find a way to pull their head out of their ass and make a good F4 film.

So even if Fox doesnt sell the rights back to Marvel Studios I dont think thats a guarantee that we will never have a good F4 film.

FOX can't wait 10 years.. and I don't think the general audience is going to watch another F4 reboot soooo soon.. unless there's a reason too... like it shares the same world as avengers...

the X-men don't benefit at all from the Fantastic Four.. they've quite honestly only had 1 note-worthy crossover.. Onslaught. there "worlds" don't really mesh well either.. the X-men are feared for being different, but the Fantastic four are praised....

the Fantastic Four would be using the X-men as a life-preserver... and they might actually drown the X-men in the process... it's better to just cut ties and let the sucker sink..

With Batman, he's batman.. he had the luxury of proving to people good films Could be made.. much like superman... those are characters that stand the test of time.. sometimes they just need a breather.. the Fantastic Four have never given us a good film to prove anything about.
 
I had a hard enough time understanding people who supported this third attempt by Fox. If Fox tries to make yet another go at it, I think that any fans that rally around that notion need to have their heads examined. How many failures can the Fantastic Four endure?

Oh, don't worry: this is it. FOX isn't doing s*** else with this property for awhile. They have earned themselves 7 (or is it 10?) years to think about what to with this franchise without fear of it slipping back to Marvel. That's what this entire "exercise" was for. This Trank guy, these actors, Kinberg--they were all used by the studio for a purpose. Their purpose has been fulfilled and they'll be let go.

This franchise is beyond toxic--it's utterly ruined. Three times is a charm, but a third failed try can also spell the end. This is it for the Fantastic Four. The ONLY way to see it bounce back is under the management of Marvel Studios and even they won't likely give them a film of their own at first. Cameo, cameo, cameo.... :whatever:
 
Just watched the Deadpool trailer which was incredible.

Kind of hard to believe both of these properties are coming from the same studio.

Well, IF this somehow makes enough money to get a sequel, hopefully Fox will get a new director and writer.
 
Oh, don't worry: this is it. FOX isn't doing s*** else with this property for awhile. They have earned themselves 7 (or is it 10?) years to think about what to with this franchise without fear of it slipping back to Marvel. That's what this entire "exercise" was for. This Trank guy, these actors, Kinberg--they were all used by the studio for a purpose. Their purpose has been fulfilled and they'll be let go.

This franchise is beyond toxic--it's utterly ruined. Three times is a charm, but a third failed try can also spell the end. This is it for the Fantastic Four. The ONLY way to see it bounce back is under the management of Marvel Studios and even they won't likely give them a film of their own at first. Cameo, cameo, cameo.... :whatever:

I think spider-man's success or failures will largely help decide what to do with the Fantastic Four should Marvel get the rights back...

I see Reed Richards popping up in a cameo... and then maybe going from there.. or maybe the bigger sell is torch and thing.. but we will see.. they certainly made people crave the hulk on it's third attempt with a different actor
 
This is made by Fox & not MARVEL. Big difference

What I meant is that he's a huge fan of the comic book movie genre in general. If memory serves correctly, he praised X-Men: Days Of Future Past and that was by FOX. So he's bashing this film because...well, it sucks. Has nothing to do with Marvel Studios versus FOX comic films. The product here is just poor and he's telling it like it is. If it was a good film, he would be unbiased and fair enough to say so.
 
I think spider-man's success or failures will largely help decide what to do with the Fantastic Four should Marvel get the rights back...

I see Reed Richards popping up in a cameo... and then maybe going from there.. or maybe the bigger sell is torch and thing.. but we will see.. they certainly made people crave the hulk on it's third attempt with a different actor

Or the key may be simply introducing Reed and Susan alone for now. Marvel Studios needs more powerful females. Just about all of their premiere powerhouses (Storm, Jean Grey/Phoenix, Invisible Woman) are on lockdown at FOX. I can see Reed and Susan having a cameo in an Avengers film without Ben and Johnny.
 
Something I noticed. No MARVEL Logo in the intro in both Deadpool trailers. Yet it was hugely present throughout the entire Marketing Campaign for this one. Hmmmmmmmmmm
 
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