Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - Part 39

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well they were interested in an X-Men crossover so they may end up trying to fix this mess in a crossover film. I just dont see them wanting to lose these characters and Galacticus and Silver Surfer especially. Not for a tv show.

Even if FOX can merge two distinct cinematic licensing agreements without the approval of the IP holder, and I believe that is highly unlikely, why would Donner and Singer let this dumpster fire near their successful X-Men series? That makes zero sense.

And how many times do you think FOX is going to get away with kicking Marvel in the jimmies before Marvel (and Disney) hits back? Marvel has Season 2 of the most popular series on Netflix, now featuring A-Listers Elektra and Punisher, ready to go for 2016. Does FOX want to chance having thirteen episodes of DD made available for streaming on Deadpool's opening weekend?

I have confidence that the people who run FOX aren't complete morons. They're going to make a deal and forget all about the FF.
 
*reads Keyser and Variety reviews*

Aaaaand so it begins. Here we go. :cool:
 
All that talk about crossovers was pure garbage anyways. Trying to build some hype with X-fans who were either on the fence or totally uninterested in seeing anything FF. They wanted others to just be curious enough to see it. Its pathetically transparent.
 
I don't see a Reviews thread anywhere yet, so I hope you don't mind me posting here. I went to an advance screening in the UK tonight, and here is my Non-Spoiler review:

With all the negativity surrounding the production from the earliest stages, I went into FANTASTIC FOUR hoping for a triumph over the odds. And in a perverse way, I guess it is, but not in the manner I'd hoped. See, with all the intense negativity surrounding this production from even the early stages, if there was one thing I didn't imagine would be possible, it was that FANTASTIC FOUR could possibly disappoint me. And yet, somehow, it did.

I'll try to explain. The most disarming thing about this is that, for the first 40 minutes or so, this is a freaking GREAT movie. Like, me open-mouthed stunned, sitting in the cinema thinking, "Oh my God, they pulled it off. This ultimate underdog has managed to silence the haters." Yes, the characters are mostly a bit younger than they should be. But scrape past that, and in that opening sequence, this is a film that just *gets* the Fantastic Four and what makes their characters and the relationship, on a deeper level than the previous films managed. The actors are all top-notch, and inhabit their roles so well, bringing the humanity to each of the key figures and cementing who they are before the powers hit them. Miles Teller is just great in the film, and for the first time on the screen they managed to nail that Reed Richards is the most fascinating character of all the four, and that it's not his stretchy powers that make him special, it's his incredible mind. And science, and the power of intelligence and future-thinking, is presented as being right at the forefront here in a way that's kinda inspiring. It felt like superhero storytelling laced with an INTERSTELLAR-style awe with the might of human potential.

Even this much-dreaded interpretation of Doom is handled so well at first. There's no computer hacker/blogger Victor Domashev: he's Victor Von Doom, from Latveria. And Toby Kebbell is leagues ahead of Julian McMahon's smarmy yuppie, and totally nails the character's motivations. He's all fragile ego and simmering jealousy towards Reed, his contempt for Richards' supposed lesser intelligence hiding an insecurity that Richards may be smarter than him. And yet still he finds himself starting to admire Reed and become friends with him in spite of himself, it's all handled so well. Sue's complicated protective relationship with Johnny, Ben feeling out of his depth amongst these intellectual heavyweights but having Reed's back no matter what, it's all touched on here. Even the origin itself is handled well, a skillful display of steadily escalating tension, with the heroes' transformations handled in a quite jarringly horrific "body horror" fashion that gave things a fresh new angle and totally made sense. And in terms of character focused origin-telling that makes these characters feel fleshed out and relevant, I genuinely thought Fox were on course to giving us a BATMAN BEGINS for the Fantastic Four, that's how good it was.

And then it falls apart.

I'll try not to get too much into spoilers, but I'll say there's a clear dividing line between what was a great film and what just turns into a mess: it's a black screen, with a caption reading, "ONE YEAR LATER." And everything after that, it's like a different director working from a different script. Suddenly, all that carefully built up momentum is gone. And you realise that all the stuff that was so beautifully set up in the first half of the film never gets adequately paid off. Toby Kebbell's great work is largely undone and Doom turns into a damp squib. And perhaps more unforgivably, the Fantastic Four themselves lose all their chemistry. Suddenly it's like there's no chemistry between them, to the point where they might as well have filmed their scenes separately and been green-screened together. We don't actually get to experience them becoming a team, just get told they are. The Thing in particular gets a bum deal here. Jamie Bell is actually really strong as Ben Grimm, selling his pained humanity and making his friendship with Reed the heart of the film. But he is never given a chance to really connect with anyone else in the cast or feel integral to their unit. Seriously, I think I could count the amount of dialogue exchanges between Ben/Johnny and Ben/Sue COMBINED in one hand, and have fingers left over.

Really, the back half of the film just feels so rushed, and therefore inconsequential, to the point where by the end of the film I didn't even think it was the end. As the film entered its final minutes, I was thinking maybe we'd seen a lackluster mid-film set-piece, and hoping that the film would be able to claw back its momentum for the finale after a sluggish middle. Then it just ends, and I'm like, "HUH?" I genuinely think so many people stayed waiting for an after-credits sequence (there isn't one) because of this shared feeling of, "That CAN'T be it." This is a very slender hour-and-a-half film.

Short version: FANTASTIC FOUR has a superb first act, an underwhelming second act, and no third act. Not a good structure to have at all.

So, that brings us back to the beginning, and disappointment. In a way, I'd have preferred for this to just be a steaming turd of a film. Then I could have just disengaged and laughed at how awful it was. Instead, there's so much good stuff here, and they come tantalisingly close to making a quality film. And the fact that they then spectacularly fumble the ball at the goal line makes the whole viewing experience that much more infuriating. The fact they did enough right to see the great movie they set the groundwork for but ended up not making. In the end, FANTASTIC FOUR is not a turkey, and given the hate this film has endured, that in itself is a sort of triumph. But ultimately, I'd classify FANTASTIC FOUR as a frustrating near-miss.

Thanks for the review Keyser.

So who wrote and directed the first half, and who directed the second? Which bit is Trank's and which bit is Kinberg's or whoever it was?
 
I would think if any "rights deal" was to happen, FOX would want something similar to SONY's Spider-Man deal. Lend the Four to Marvel for big event films, but retain the right to make solo adventures/crossover movies
 
... marvel owns the merch rights, fox doesnt. Any fox film toys money would mostly go to marvel and hasbro. Just fox gets some of that too .. but no, fox does not own xmen or f4 merch rights at all

That's what I mean. Fox need to give up their cut of the merchandise.
 
Thanks for the review Keyser.

So who wrote and directed the first half, and who directed the second? Which bit is Trank's and which bit is Kinberg's or whoever it was?
Best bet would be first half is Trank's, second is mostly Kinberg's.
 
Even if FOX can merge two distinct cinematic licensing agreements without the approval of the IP holder, and I believe that is highly unlikely, why would Donner and Singer let this dumpster fire near their successful X-Men series? That makes zero sense.

And how many times do you think FOX is going to get away with kicking Marvel in the jimmies before Marvel (and Disney) hits back? Marvel has Season 2 of the most popular series on Netflix, now featuring A-Listers Elektra and Punisher, ready to go for 2016. Does FOX want to chance having thirteen episodes of DD made available for streaming on Deadpool's opening weekend?

I have confidence that the people who run FOX aren't complete morons. They're going to make a deal and forget all about the FF.

Totally plausible. I'd like to see what Marvel/Disney will do after this. If this turns out to be a flop, both studios definitely won't forget what this will do.

Marvel/Disney, as it stands now, is a fantastical force to be reckoned with.
 
Ouch:

And having seemingly missed twice in trying to get “Fantastic Four” right, the studio, unlike Reed, might want to think seriously before making any more trips back to the drawing board.

From Variety. :dry:
 
Well I do have the opportunity to see this for free...but I will debate with myself on whether or not to go, these reviews haven't been very encouraging.

I do creative writing on the side and I've been doing so over the past few years now, and some of these ideas make me go "What made you think this was good writing?". The changes seem so specific like it was meant to piss everyone off.
 
I would think if any "rights deal" was to happen, FOX would want something similar to SONY's Spider-Man deal. Lend the Four to Marvel for big event films, but retain the right to make solo adventures/crossover movies

I think the Marvel and FOX relationship has definitely soured over the years. It's a totally different chemistry with Sony though.
 
From the sounds of everyone involved, it seems like the final fight derails Doom's character and then suddenly all the character development that should have been saved for the sequel (Ben coming to terms with who he is and beginning to bond with Sue and Johnny, Reed and Sue falling in love, Reed learning to tolerate Johnny, etc) is rushed out like there was never any conflict.

Like giving Doom Annihilus' motivation when both 616 and comic Doom would never want to destroy Earth and then killing him off limits sequel potential just as much as resolving all the character arcs within the final scene. Then reverting that change with no explanation. That and no post credit's scene in a Marvel adaptation is unforgivable.

This film sounds like Sucker Punch where it was enjoyable up until the final scene and then you leave the theater feeling violated.
 
That's what I mean. Fox need to give up their cut of the merchandise.

Even if Marvel profited 100% from X-Men they'd still not produce movie Merch. They've gone as low as to remove comics X-Men from Marvel merchandise even though they get total revenue from them.

Only way there'll be X-Men movie Merch is if Marvel trades the Merch rights to Fox
 
Even if Marvel profited 100% from X-Men they'd still not produce movie Merch. They've gone as low as to remove comics X-Men from Marvel merchandise even though they get total revenue from them.

I'm hoping that after this film leaves theaters, Marvel will stop spiting their own fans because of Fox's mistakes.
 
Even if Marvel profited 100% from X-Men they'd still not produce movie Merch. They've gone as low as to remove comics X-Men from Marvel merchandise even though they get total revenue from them.

Only way there'll be X-Men movie Merch is if Marvel trades the Merch rights to Fox

"As low".
Not advertising another competitors brand is "low" now, apparently.
 
Last edited:
I'm hoping that after this film leaves theaters, Marvel will stop spiting their own fans because of Fox's mistakes.

Can't blame them. Why create new characters that will just go to Fox's universe. I understand Marvel's point of view.
 
Even if Marvel profited 100% from X-Men they'd still not produce movie Merch. They've gone as low as to remove comics X-Men from Marvel merchandise even though they get total revenue from them.

Besides... Marvel is making a KILLIN' in Animated TV and Merchandise, using whatever characters they please.

Let Fox mull over their next big budget movie... Marvel/Disney has a tight-grip on the future breed of comic nerds.
 
That isn't, "handing them money." Fox don't get any money off of those shirts.

So how is Marvel "spiting" fans by canceling the F4 comics? They were a low selling comic. Plus with them not being able to go out on fantastic adventures and discover new places and people(which is how and why they were created)Marvel spiting Fox? Marvel would be crazy to create a new place that the F4 go and it becomes a hit and then goes straight to Fox.
 
Welp guys and gals. Rotten Tomatoes Score for this film is now officially active. :up:

So far? The film is at 20% Rotten. :dry:

1 Fresh Review.

4 Rotten Reviews.

Gird your britches. I'm feeling deja vu all over again. :(
 
That isn't, "handing them money." Fox don't get any money off of those shirts.

I misspoke, and subsequently edited my post. But it's advertising a brand that a direct competitor benefits from.
The truth that gets shuffled under the rug during conversations where we paint Marvel as the bad guy is that the bad blood between the two companies is mostly on Fox's hand. From what we know, Marvel tried to play ball with them and they weren't having it. Not to mention that these are their characters to begin with.
 
Welp guys and gals. Rotten Tomatoes Score for this film is now officially active. :up:

So far? The film is at 20% Rotten. :dry:

1 Fresh Review.

4 Rotten Reviews.

Gird your britches. I'm feeling deja vu all over again. :(

It's not only the Critics either. Check the audience reviews from those that saw it today. Most of them are very negative
 
See my fear is that IF FF goes back to Marvel, it won't be too long until fanboys start campaigning for X-Men to go back, which is possibly the worst option for X-Men.

Because Disney just won't get how to handle X-Men and the social challenges the films will need.

I won't. I wasn't even campaigning for Spider-Man. I really just care about the Fantastic Four.
 
I thought the embargo for this broke tomorrow? It seems like that critics review spot lists positive reviews, but are they actually positive or positive bits from negative reviews? Can somebody explain this to me. Oh, and is it also true that Jurassic World started at 50% because that movie was dope and I find that a bit hard to believe.
 
I think so. I don't think Marvel Studios has even come close (or even want to) to the social injustice or edginess of X2 or DOFP.

What property that they've brought to the big screen provided an opportunity to do that? Guardians of the Galaxy? Ant-Man? Thor??

You do realize that X-Men is tailor made for that kind of weightier subject matter?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"