Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 3

[Primal Slayer]

First and foremost this show was made for the fans of GRRMs books and those who like the material. Second it was made because GRRM wanted his material brought to life and done justice. Had GRRM wanted his story drastically changed and quickened up he would have sold it to hollywood one of handful of times they came to him with an offer. If what is on screen doesn't work for everyone well such is life. I know in elementary school kids are taught everyone gets a trophy and they can all have it their way but we are not children anymore. You don't always get your way and not everything can be made to how you like it. If that makes me a snob I'll accept that criticism.

You just totally proved a point, and do you think that it is just fans of the book that is keeping this show afloat? While I am totally fine with the show and the episodes right now, take yourself out of the whole "its an adaption and its a planned story, its from a book so we already know what they are doing" and put yourself in "I havent read the books, I got into the show because of the show, not the books, I dont know what is going to happen and dont plan on wikiing the books, am just looking at this from a tv point of view instead of the book point of view"

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The story and characters shouldn't be butchered because people are too impatient to see things fold out.

Clearly you misunderstand what people's complaints are.

What do you want to see happen?

 

[Marvolo]

You just totally proved a point, and do you think that it is just fans of the book that is keeping this show afloat? While I am totally fine with the show and the episodes right now, take yourself out of the whole "its an adaption and its a planned story, its from a book so we already know what they are doing" and put yourself in "I havent read the books, I got into the show because of the show, not the books, I dont know what is going to happen and dont plan on wikiing the books, am just looking at this from a tv point of view instead of the book point of view"

New subscriptions keep HBO shows going. I can't say how the complainers leaving will hurt the show. If new subscribers come in then their loss will be a wash. We will find out. For me personally I would rather this show be true to its material and get four seasons than turn into something it isn't. Now I know not everyone feels the same but that is where I satnd on the material and the show

 

[Sawyer]

You just totally proved a point, and do you think that it is just fans of the book that is keeping this show afloat? While I am totally fine with the show and the episodes right now, take yourself out of the whole "its an adaption and its a planned story, its from a book so we already know what they are doing" and put yourself in "I havent read the books, I got into the show because of the show, not the books, I dont know what is going to happen and dont plan on wikiing the books, am just looking at this from a tv point of view instead of the book point of view"

Always looking for the opportunity to use a Santana gif, huh?

 

[Bruce Malone]

I've read every one of yours and others complaints.

The show is "dragging", nothing is happening, the war isn't happening, too much going on, too much set up, not enough is going on, too enslaved to the material etc. What did i miss?

The show has been faithful to the books in most ways but some feel it should deviate further in substantial ways or simplify the story to make it eaiser on them. That to me is just as arrogant.

I don't think you have at all. The complaints at least from me are the show should be able to be discussed as a show it's own adaptation and not have every moment compared back to the books.

It's like as soon as someone ask a question like "how are you enjoying dany's portrayal so far?" You get ten aswers with well in the books....in the books she did..[BLACKOUT]hfghjjhjgjgjh [/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

ghllhlk

Spoiler

gghgthhh

I feel like adaptation should be able to be discussed on it's own merrits without constant direct comparisons to the book. I'm a walking dead fan but i actually chose to focus mostly on the show and not bring up comic comparisons in the wd thread as they are two different mediums. 90% of the discussion here is now "well on the show it went like this".

I'm actually choosing to read the books following the seasons as to be able to enjoy the show as its own work without thinking about constant comparisons to the novels and then reading about the differences from novel to tv afterwards.

 

[Marvolo]

I don't think you have at all. The complaints at least from me are the show should be able to be discussed as a show it's own adaptation and not have every moment compared back to the books.

It's like as soon as someone ask a question like "how are you enjoying dany's portrayal so far?" You get ten aswers with well in the books....in the books she did..[BLACKOUT]hfghjjhjgjgjh [/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

ghllhlk

Spoiler

gghgthhh

I feel like adaptation should be able to be discussed on it's own merrits without constant direct comparisons to the book. I'm a walking dead fan but i actually chose to focus mostly on the show and not bring up comic comparisons in the wd thread as they are two different mediums. 90% of the discussion here is now "well on the show it went like this".

I'm actually choosing the read the books following the seasons as to be able to enjoy the show as its own work without thinking about constant comparisons to the novels.

Your complaint is a seperate complaint not about the quality of the show or regarding the adaption. There will always be discussion of any adaptions source material. That being said I understand your frustration and how you feel.

And just so everyone knows, I didn't start the books until after season 1. I liked the show and wanted more so I read the books. I prefer the show to the books for various reasons if that says anything.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Always looking for the opportunity to use a Santana gif, huh?

Lol she has the perfect reaction faces so it is always a must.

Your complaint is a seperate complaint not about the quality of the show or regarding the adaption. There will always be discussion of any adaptions source material. That being said I understand your frustration and how you feel.

And just so everyone knows, I didn't start the books until after season 1. I liked the show and wanted more so I read the books. I prefer the show to the books for various reasons if that says anything.

And yet that is exactly what Golgo and matt were referring to I believe. Just what Bruce just said.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Oops DP.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well when you get questions like "why isn't so and so doing as much this season" or" how come we're spending all this time on this character" really the only answer is "Because that's how it is in the books."

 

[Bruce Malone]

^^^

That's not even correct since the tv show adaptation and books aren't 1:1. David and d.b have talked about how they are not doing a one season to one book formula but more so adapting the whole grrm story and they talk about how they have the discretion to over/under-use certain characters due to the sheer number of characters.

So it is not fair to say that because this character appeared this much in the books it will reflect on the show.

As for my previous comment if you're reffering to, I was simply giving my view that on the show dany's lack of presences doesn't seem to be affecting the flow of the show much as opposed to how in my view a character like jon or tyrion not appearing for long period's of time would. I'm saying if jon or tyrion were barely in the 1st 3 eps you'd probably have a lot of people complaining.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well that may be true as the show goes on but so far the show and books the show are fairly well matched up, so I really don't know how exactly explain certain situations other than to refer to the books.


And as for Dany, I wasn't implying that you were making any judgement on the character, I simply meant in my original response that in the exact same thing happened in Book 2 and that likewise didn't affect the flow of the story.

 

[DACrowe]

Spoiler

Yep, after the third season, which will be received well hopefully, adapting AFFC and ADWD is going to be tricky, I'm a bit worried if it could sustain the viewers' attention. I think Weiss and Benioff will go with weaving the storylines in both books into one season, perhaps that's the way to go. Hopefully they'll find a solution, I'm just wondering if whether or not GRRM has published the sixth book by the time they catch up to ADWD.

I too think they could condense AFFC and ADWD into one season while also moving a few events (like [blackout]Kingsmoot and possibly the Tommen wedding[/blackout]) to Season 4 (the second half of book 3). However, they may not want to ire the fans and may want to give GRRM more time. Doing that would get the show back down to 7 seasons unless they split up the last two books. However, I think the choices are either condense two books into one season or do half-and-half but have A LOT of changes to make it more interesting to watch.

 

[DACrowe]

I think that his complaint isn't so much that people are saying spoilers but more that people use the books to justify every shortcoming of the show. If someone comments on the pace, there is an almost snobbish retort about how readers of the book know what happens so the complaint is invalid. Fans of the book fail to grasp that this is an adaptation and the book does not invalidate criticism of the adaptation to the new media. I am sure that the payoff of the book is great. But the slow pace isn't fitting for television. Slow paces work in novels because the reader can control the pace. A television viewer cannot. Therefore payoff is needed.

I think you're projecting your own frustrations with discussing here with someone who just wants to speculate about a show in which most of the posters here know what's going to happen.

As for your complaint, I never say that you're wrong because of what happens in the book. I say you're wrong because you are.

I jest, I jest. Seriously, I hope you like this week's episode and the one after that.

 

[conan69]

Problem isnt comparisons to the books. People are using the books to say "You will see what happens when...." or " Such and such is being set up" - and not so much "the books explains it better". THAT would be explaining the shortcomings of the books.

I think the fans of the books, who already know the story are frustrated with the complaining because people arent showing any patience, or waiting to see where things are going before saying nothing is happening.

Its like watching the first 10 minutes of a movie and saying "This is boring. Who are these people? Where's the payoff?"

 

[Drizzle]

People will complain no matter what, especially when it comes to material like this.

 

[Golgo-13]

Derp, the price of dealing with a tv show based off popular source material.

As long as it is in spoiler tags there is nothing wrong with it. You are free to discuss anything you want to regarding the TV show. All you have to do is bring up a topic. In the meantime what's the harm in the rest of us discussing the books and their relationship to the tv show? You'd think you've never been around adaptions. Source material is always a part of any adaptations discussion.

80-90% of the stuff on this site are adaptations of a comic books/books - Superman, Avengers, etc - yet every other post doesn't begin with "....in the books, or in the comics".

Maybe i'm in the minority here, but for those of us who have not read the books, this is quite annoying. It's the same over in the Walking Dead thread.

There's a books forum on the Hype, for book discussions. This thread is for the Game of Thrones tv show. To discuss what happened in the show, not a weekly comparitive essay on how the show is different and/or the same as the books.

I'm not trying to sound like a ..you know what..just stating my opinion.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I think the fans of the books, who already know the story are frustrated with the complaining because people arent showing any patience, or waiting to see where things are going before saying nothing is happening.

Its like watching the first 10 minutes of a movie and saying "This is boring. Who are these people? Where's the payoff?"

This times 1,000. It's frustrating to hear people, after only 2 episodes, that nothing is happening. Certain things have to be set-up, explained, and developed.

For example, take Theon telling Robb he'll offer an alliance to his father. Could they have just showed Theon arriving? Yeah, but the scene with Robb makes it clear Theon is his ally and devoted to his cause. It makes his betrayal by joining his father to attack the North much more powerful when it happens. In fact, this is one thing the show executed MUCH better than the book where he basically just goes along with the plan without much second thought.

 

[danoyse]

80-90% of the stuff on this site are adaptations of a comic books/books - Superman, Avengers, etc - yet every other post doesn't begin with "....in the books, or in the comics".

Yeah, they kinda do.

Maybe i'm in the minority here, but for those of us who have not read the books, this is quite annoying. It's the same over in the Walking Dead thread.

It's not our fault that you haven't the books. People who've read the source material are going to compare them to the adaptation.

There's a books forum on the Hype, for book discussions. This thread is for the Game of Thrones tv show. To discuss what happened in the show, not a weekly comparitive essay on how the show is different and/or the same as the books.

Yeah, that's not going to work. By that logic, we couldn't let anyone compare a superhero movie to a comic book, or a book to a movie version. We have threads for Rock of Ages and Les Miserables in the movies section, do we tell the people who saw the stage versions of those not to bring them up in the forums? Nope, we don't.

If a project is based on existing source material, there are going to be comparisons. Either get used to it, or catch up and read the books/comics/whatever.

 

[Matt]

Problem isnt comparisons to the books. People are using the books to say "You will see what happens when...." or " Such and such is being set up" - and not so much "the books explains it better". THAT would be explaining the shortcomings of the books.

I think the fans of the books, who already know the story are frustrated with the complaining because people arent showing any patience, or waiting to see where things are going before saying nothing is happening.

Its like watching the first 10 minutes of a movie and saying "This is boring. Who are these people? Where's the payoff?"

But it is a different medium. The pacing of the book does not work for the show. Television by it's nature is a more dynamic and visual medium. Watching people sit around and talk for an hour is not as effective on screen as it is on paper.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, they kinda do.



It's not our fault that you haven't the books. People who've read the source material are going to compare them to the adaptation.



Yeah, that's not going to work. By that logic, we couldn't let anyone compare a superhero movie to a comic book, or a book to a movie version. We have threads for Rock of Ages and Les Miserables in the movies section, do we tell the people who saw the stage versions of those not to bring them up in the forums? Nope, we don't.

If a project is based on existing source material, there are going to be comparisons. Either get used to it, or catch up and read the books/comics/whatever.

My problem isn't not knowing about what happens in the book. My problem is that the pace of the show is slow to a fault. "Read the book," isn't a valid defense for a critique of a television series, IMO.

And for the record, I have started reading the books. I read the first one pretty quickly. Don't think that I will bother with the second. GRRM's writing style is cheap. Soap opera cheap. His characters are compelling enough, but he creates artificial drama. The chapter cliffhangers would be fine, if one did not have to wait 80 pages to read the conclusion (and usually be met with a fairly simplistic solution). I find his style to be very off-putting in that regard and it turned me off as a reader.

 

[danoyse]

My problem isn't not knowing about what happens in the book. My problem is that the pace of the show is slow to a fault. "Read the book," isn't a valid defense for a critique of a television series, IMO.

Maybe it's less of a defense than a reason why some don't agree that the show is moving too slowly?

Someone who's read the source material to anything will generally have the advantage because they actually do know where the story is headed.

I'm halfway through the third book right now, and from my point of view this season is actually moving rather quickly.

And for the record, I have started reading the books. I read the first one pretty quickly. Don't think that I will bother with the second. GRRM's writing style is cheap. Soap opera cheap. His characters are compelling enough, but he creates artificial drama. The chapter cliffhangers would be fine, if one did not have to wait 80 pages to read the conclusion (and usually be met with a fairly simplistic solution). I find his style to be very off-putting in that regard and it turned me off as a reader.

I'm starting to think that this series in general just isn't for you...

 

[Spidey-Bat]

But it is a different medium. The pacing of the book does not work for the show. Television by it's nature is a more dynamic and visual medium. Watching people sit around and talk for an hour is not as effective on screen as it is on paper.

My problem isn't not knowing about what happens in the book. My problem is that the pace of the show is slow to a fault. "Read the book," isn't a valid defense for a critique of a television series, IMO.

And for the record, I have started reading the books. I read the first one pretty quickly. Don't think that I will bother with the second. GRRM's writing style is cheap. Soap opera cheap. His characters are compelling enough, but he creates artificial drama. The chapter cliffhangers would be fine, if one did not have to wait 80 pages to read the conclusion (and usually be met with a fairly simplistic solution). I find his style to be very off-putting in that regard and it turned me off as a reader.

Then this series is simply not for you. The first season as an amazing adaptation of the book. If you didn't like the book and have no interest in reading the second one, then there's no point in continuing to watch the show.

I strongly encourage you read the second book. It was my favorite and you definitely won't be disappointed with the third book, I couldn't put it down once I got halfway through it.

 

[Matt]

Maybe it's less of a defense than a reason why some don't agree that the show is moving too slowly?

Someone who's read the source material to anything will generally have the advantage because they actually do know where the story is headed.

I'm halfway through the third book right now, and from my point of view this season is actually moving rather quickly.

But that is the exact point we are making! Those who read the books are more forgiving of wasting 20 minutes an episode on Dany because the character is endeared to them and they know it is going somewhere. The same cannot be said for the casual viewer.

But if this is a criticism of the casual viewer (and every review I've read where the critic has not read the books indicates it is), then that is a flaw of the adapter. Unless of course they are making the show simply for the sake of fans of the book. Reading the book should not be necessary for enjoyment of the show.

I'm starting to think that this series in general just isn't for you...

Not so! I find the characters to be fascinating. I just do not like GRRM's writing style. I think that he overplays his hand with his decision of where and when to change POVs in order to invoke emotion but he does it to the point of frustration from the reader. I feel like it is a cheap style of writing. I'm not necessarily saying that he should tell a linear story from one point of view or from an omniscient narrator. But I do think that his writing style over the course of one book went from unique to gimmicky in large part because of how he used it. I can only imagine how it gets as the franchise progresses.

 

[Matt]

Then this series is simply not for you. The first season as an amazing adaptation of the book. If you didn't like the book and have no interest in reading the second one, then there's no point in continuing to watch the show.

That is a snobbish viewpoint. Not liking the author's style of writing and not liking the concept are two different things. The Lord of the Rings trilogy rank among my favorite movies of the past decade. I DESPISE the books. I've tried on more than one occasion to read them but I can never seem to get past the Prancing Pony because of Tolkein's writing style. It is less like reading a piece of literature for enjoyment and more like reading a dry as **** history book.

Yet I appreciate the concept and the characters and thus love the movies.

Once again, you are misinterpreting my complaint. It is not that I dislike the story, the characters, the concept or anything like that. It is that for a TELEVISION SERIES, the pace is too slow.

 

[Project862006]

i dont feel the show is moving slow at all i dont get the complaints