Comics Get ready people, JMS and Joe Q are planning ANOTHER Spider-Man event

[WOLVERINE25TH]

And another thing, who in th' hell ever said it was stable? It's had it's moments. I'd equate it to th' life of a young married police couple. Th' cop goes off to work leavin' th' wife at home wonderin' if he's gonna come home that night or not.

Hey hey! More relatability! Granted, not fer those outside of dangerous lines of work, but it doesn't take much to stretch th' imagination. Of course, I forget, this is th' century of not thinking so maybe it does require an effort.

 

[Gregatron]

I had bad luck with girls too, but guess what? I ended up with a girl way hotter than I ever should've. So, what a shock! stuff like that ACTUALLY happens. It's relatable. It's realistic. Hey, there's Spidey!

And th' key element to Spidey is "with great power comes great responsibility." Dorks, geeks an' nerds, fer th' most part, can grow up and change. It's also been done. Again, there's Spidey.

Spidey is perfectly relatable before all this Other Crap, and story potential was there fer th' marriage. If you knew jack about story-telling you'd see it. But you don't, so ya can't, so go back to sleep.

Down, boy.


(At least I don't pretend I'm a fictional character when I post...and I write in complete sentences, too!).

Can't we all just hold hands and agree to disagree?

 

[Gregatron]

And another thing, who in th' hell ever said it was stable? It's had it's moments. I'd equate it to th' life of a young married police couple. Th' cop goes off to work leavin' th' wife at home wonderin' if he's gonna come home that night or not.

Hey hey! More relatability! Granted, not fer those outside of dangerous lines of work, but it doesn't take much to stretch th' imagination. Of course, I forget, this is th' century of not thinking so maybe it does require an effort.

That's all good and fine, but it's not SPIDER-MAN.

 

[MC2Spiderman]

no offence but i disagree gregatron there has been many romantic tension moments since they have gotten married, since spiderman started he was a teenager and has grown up into a man, he has dated and then married, the next step for him to take is what is next for most and thats to start a family, with that he gains more responsibility not only as spiderman but as a father to protect his wife and child.

spiderman isnt a teen superhero, he is just that a super hero we can relate to who we have grown up with, for him not to marry would mean we couldnt relate, and also means he would be a batman rip off staying the bachelor all the time, one thing that is constant is that we all have to grow up, and spiderman has done that, and he should continue to do so

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Oh well, at least we'll have eight thousand variant covers before it's all over.

 

[Gregatron]

no offence but i disagree gregatron there has been many romantic tension moments since they have gotten married, since spiderman started he was a teenager and has grown up into a man, he has dated and then married, the next step for him to take is what is next for most and thats to start a family, with that he gains more responsibility not only as spiderman but as a father to protect his wife and child.

spiderman isnt a teen superhero, he is just that a super hero we can relate to who we have grown up with, for him not to marry would mean we couldnt relate, and also means he would be a batman rip off staying the bachelor all the time, one thing that is constant is that we all have to grow up, and spiderman has done that, and he should continue to do so

And THIS is why Spider-Man is crashing and burning. Because "we HAVE to relate to him", because "he HAS to grow up and change at the same rate WE do".

By the way...who's "spiderman"? Some banker? "Hi, my name is Frank Spiderman"?



While we're at it, I want to see Superman turn 40 and have some kids with Lois.

 

[MC2Spiderman]

no the reason spiderman is crashing and burning is both the creators and fans, the way i see it most fans dont like change either it be agood or bad heck look at the recent costume change they hate it and have allways said stick to the classic in that it brings the downfall of the comic, and leaves the writer to wonder what to do does he dare do something outrageous or just continue with the stale safetyness of usual.

the next step is for peter to move on, do whats next on what we all do, he loves MJ to bits they have had there troubles like every marriage on the planet but they keep at it, the next step would be for him to start a family as that brings again dangers and responsibilities. but alas i guess that wont happen as the fans would go nuts blah blah blah as they would rather the comic to continue to drivel into staleness than except a change or an evolution of the character

 

[Gregatron]

no the reason spiderman is crashing and burning is both the creators and fans, the way i see it most fans dont like change either it be agood or bad heck look at the recent costume change they hate it and have allways said stick to the classic in that it brings the downfall of the comic, and leaves the writer to wonder what to do does he dare do something outrageous or just continue with the stale safetyness of usual.

the next step is for peter to move on, do whats next on what we all do, he loves MJ to bits they have had there troubles like every marriage on the planet but they keep at it, the next step would be for him to start a family as that brings again dangers and responsibilities. but alas i guess that wont happen as the fans would go nuts blah blah blah as they would rather the comic to continue to drivel into staleness than except a change or an evolution of the character

Then the end will come soon, and Spider-Man can retire and live a happy life with his wife and 2.5 kids. End of series.

So many small minds thinking in the short-term, thinking only of instant gratification, thinking only of themselves. Sigh.


I am so ****ing sick of buzzwords like "evolution" "stagnant" and "moving on".

Superman and Batman were exactly the same for 30 years in the Golden Age (Robin, for example, didn't age a day between 1940 and 1969), and sales were huge (because kids knew to move on and grow up, while the next generation was introduced to the characters).

Today, one or two generations wants to hoard the characters to themselves. Sick.

 

[WOLVERINE25TH]

That's not Spider-Man, that's not Spider-Man...ARE YOU ****ING STUPID?! That's EXACTLY Spider-Man, you flipping moron. That's all the things that made Spidey so popular AFTER th' whole first teen non-sidekick thing! And maybe if you bothered to learn ANYTHING about ANYTHING, you'd know this.

And by the way, dumbass, DC had to do a Crisis to save their books because people weren't reading them like they used to. Think about that. Superman and Batman AIN'T like they were in the Golden Age. Gee...I wonder why?

 

[XSpidercideX]

If Spidey and MJ break up Im quitting comics, even the non spidey ones.

 

[MC2Spiderman]

well sorry to say Evolution is the next step if you stay still youll just wither away,

 

[Gregatron]

That's not Spider-Man, that's not Spider-Man...ARE YOU ****ING STUPID?! That's EXACTLY Spider-Man, you flipping moron. That's all the things that made Spidey so popular AFTER th' whole first teen non-sidekick thing! And maybe if you bothered to learn ANYTHING about ANYTHING, you'd know this.

And by the way, dumbass, DC had to do a Crisis to save their books because people weren't reading them like they used to. Think about that.

A character has defined characteristics and unspoken rules.

Relatability IS Spider-Man.

Marriage is not.

Marriage defies what made Spider-Man universally popular, and limited his appeal.

Kids today may enjoy reading about a married Spider-Man, but they will not relate to him as kids in 1962 did.

 

[MC2Spiderman]

maybe because this isnt 1962 anymore, things change

 

[Symbiotica]

* * *

 

[MC2Spiderman]

the ultimateverse is doing a great job getting the kids to read it, from there if they want to know more they read the 616 universe stuff, either way to degrade peter back to what he was would be stupid i would say, the logical and most best choice would for him to move on, start a family, have a tradegy(kill aunt may or mj) etc it would also progress the story and allow new areas to be used.

 

[Gregatron]

"Marriage is not relatable"?

I daresay most people here are married. If not, they one day will be. There are plenty of unmarried heros out there, including the DC stable.

I cannot agree with this idea that Peter should forever remain 21. For one thing, that straitjackets your story possibilities. For the second thing, that probably would have meant an eternity of us looking at Felicia as Peter's love interest.

Can't agree with that on any count... and as for kids wanting to see unmarried Spider-Man, we have Marvel Age for that.

No. Marriage is not Spider-Man.

 

[Gregatron]

the ultimateverse is doing a great job getting the kids to read it, from there if they want to know more they read the 616 universe stuff, either way to degrade peter back to what he was would be stupid i would say, the logical and most best choice would for him to move on, start a family, have a tradegy(kill aunt may or mj) etc it would also progress the story and allow new areas to be used.

I might actually have understood that if it:

A. Wasn't a run-on sentence.

B. Made sense.

 

[MC2Spiderman]

sorry my grammer and punctuation sucks in other words devolving peter back to his teenage days=BAD, Progressing the story either by evolution or character growning up to the next level= good

 

[Gregatron]

sorry my grammer and punctuation sucks in other words devolving peter back to his teenage days=BAD, Progressing the story either by evolution or character growning up to the next level= good

The character has been "evolving" for some time now, with an inversely proportionate drop in sales and readers.

If you wish to cling to the mentality that has sunk the ship, please continue to do so. As long as you enjoy "good stories", great.

But I do not enjoy "good stories" at the cost of what attracted me (and so many others) to the characters in the first place.


This is really the "Ship of Theseus" problem.

Link for those who don't know what that is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus


If a part of the ship is replaced one plank at a time, is it still the same ship when ALL the planks have been replaced?


The core elements of Spider-Man have been so gradually perverted and replaced, that there's little left of the character, and we are now reading about what is essentially a replacement character with the same name.

And those who have been conned insist nothing has changed. Those who don't get it insist that "things MUST change".

Those who HAVEN'T been conned and DO get it look on from afar with tears in their eyes, and try to open other people's eyes, with mixed results.

This is why Spider-Man is effectively dead. Because the "fans" and the "fans" who became "professionals" killed him.

Just because a few books currently being published bear the title "Spider-Man" on the cover doesn't mean the character isn't dead.

Everything that he was, everything he stood for, every theme, every emotion, every event, has been trodden on, defiled, or "retooled".

Is there room for interpretation? Yes.

But a character is a character is a character. When Spider-Man was created, THAT is who that character was. It was set in stone. ANY major deviation from that character is NOT that character, and is merely a poor imitation.

I will fight to my last breath to prevent the history books from saying that the character of Spider-Man was "created by" JMS and/or Bendis, or that said writers wrote the very best stories in the character's history (and that everything prior was just childish garbage).

 

[SpyderDan]

Wow, I am at a loss for words.

I have actually spent a lot of time defending Joe Q and JMS (please, no flaming). I used to really love JMS's work on ASM, until Sins Past. But they've both seemingly gone off the deep end. It's ridiculous.

And Peter and MJ's marriage has always been the one constant in the books that's been excellent. Gregatron's argument that the marriage defies the character is inaccurate. I was introduced to Spider-Man in the early 1990s. They had already been married for several years and even when I was like six years old, I loved it. Young children don't love Spider-Man for a specific reason like whether or not he's relatable. I, personally, didn't relate to him so much as I looked up to him. And quite frankly, I always hoped to be happily married one day, probably because of their relationship.

I will fight to my last breath to prevent the history books from saying that the character of Spider-Man was "created by" JMS and/or Bendis, or that said writers wrote the very best stories in the character's history (and that everything prior was just childish garbage).

Dude...haven't you been paying attention? That is the complete opposite of what everyone here has been saying.

 

[Gregatron]

Wow, I am at a loss for words.

I have actually spent a lot of time defending Joe Q and JMS (please, no flaming). I used to really love JMS's work on ASM, until Sins Past. But they've both seemingly gone off the deep end. It's ridiculous.

And Peter and MJ's marriage has always been the one constant in the books that's been excellent. Gregatron's argument that the marriage defies the character is inaccurate. I was introduced to Spider-Man in the early 1990s. They had already been married for several years and even when I was like six years old, I loved it. Young children don't love Spider-Man for a specific reason like whether or not he's relatable. I, personally, didn't relate to him so much as I looked up to him. And quite frankly, I always hoped to be happily married one day, probably because of their relationship.

You loved it because it was what you were first exposed to (as I was).

But in terms of creative integrity, one must ALWAYS go back to the original source material.


As I said, I like Peter and Mary Jane being together.

But in the end, it's just NOT what Spider-Man is supposed to be about.

What would Star Trek have been if Kirk had married Yeoman Rand early on?

 

[SpyderDan]

You loved it because it was what you were first exposed to (as I was).

But in terms of creative integrity, one must ALWAYS go back to the original source material.

Wow, that was a fast response.

You can't split up the actual comics into sections of "source material." Every single issue is part of the same source material, for better or for worse.

 

[SpyderDan]

As I said, I like Peter and Mary Jane being together.

But in the end, it's just NOT what Spider-Man is supposed to be about.

What would Star Trek have been if Kirk had married Yeoman Rand early on?

I don't understand that argument, since I'm not a Star Trek fan.

But Spider-Man was always a coming of age story. Peter Parker's story is on going. And he was always going to get married eventually.

 

[Gregatron]

Wow, that was a fast response.

You can't split up the actual comics into sections of "source material." Every single issue is part of the same source material, for better or for worse.

The original source material is the initial Lee-Ditko run. Everything else stems from that.

Guys like Conway, Wein, Wolfman, Stern, and DeFalco understood that, and tried to retain that spirit and remain faithful to what the character was in the old days.

But, as a copy of a copy of a copy loses quality with each successive generation, later creative teams looked back only a little, and then only to the creative team immediately preceeding them.

To restore Spider-Man, one must examine what made the original Lee-Ditko and Lee-Romita runs so very successful.

 

[Gregatron]

I don't understand that argument, since I'm not a Star Trek fan.

But Spider-Man was always a coming of age story. Peter Parker's story is on going. And he was always going to get married eventually.

If he had married Gwen, who knows where we'd be today. But Marvel knew better then. They knew then that what has happened today would happen if they'd done it then.

Spider-Man's story originally was that he learned an important and painful life lesson, then fumbled his way along trying to live up to it, in the awkward way that teenagers do.

It was not supposed to be a chronicle of Peter's education, career, and marriage. That only came when the fans grew older (though they didn't GROW UP), and demanded that Peter get dragged along with them into old age.


I grow weary and hungry. We can continue this another time.