Hans Zimmer Scoring The Man of Steel - Part 1

[ThePhantasm]

Heck, I'd take Justin Beiber over Elfman.

I'm sure you would.

 

[Naite22]

As critical as I am of Zimmer at times, Il'l take him over Elfman any day of the week.


Heck, I'd take Justin Beiber over Elfman.

Yeah! Justin bieber sang a KILLER theme to the new karate kid movie!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5-P9v3F8w

Elfman, who!?t:

 

[KalMart]

I'm sure you would.

As would Elfman, probably.

 

[Elevator Man]

To be fair, Elfman re-used the same suite in the two films: it is played when Batman takes away the Joker's balloons and when the Batskiboat rockets throught the sewers. And he re-used the march he created for Batman, for the opening of Batman Returns; all he did was add some choral effects and make it more Gothic-y (pardon my comparisons: I am far from a musical scholar, haha.) Am I complaining? No.

In terms of Spider-Man, I enjoyed the theme for it more than that for the new film (I cannot recall a theme for it,) and I would rank it on the same tier as those for Batman/Batman Returns.

Elfman's Batman scores are nothing alike. The Batman theme is the only theme that returns from the B89 score. Which makes sense that is Batman's theme in the Burton films, but even that's taken in a different direction in BR. The scores (as well as the films) couldn't be any more different from eachother. BR score is more in the vein of his Edward Scissorhands score as is the film itself. There's barely a difference in Zimmer's Batman scores.

Never ones did I say that Zimmers new theme was BETTER than Williams original - nor would I ever. I CLEARLY wrote, dozens of times in that post that Zimmers new theme was simply the best SINCE Williams original one. Nothing more.

I apologize. I looked back at your post and you're correct, but I doubt it'll be the best superhero theme since Williams own Superman theme. I don't care how good it is.

Oh, and whom ever said that Elfmans spidey theme was better than Zimmers new supeman theme, I will never get. Never! I really like spidey 1. I LOVE spidey 2! But Elfmans spidey theme was always boring and flat to me.

"Flat" and "boring" is how I describe Zimmer's Batman scores. Hopefully MOS score won't be the same for me.

As critical as I am of Zimmer at times, Il'l take him over Elfman any day of the week.


Heck, I'd take Justin Beiber over Elfman.

[YT]X6v5aVaFeoo[/YT]

Yeah! Justin bieber sang a KILLER theme to the new karate kid movie!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5-P9v3F8w

Elfman, who!?t:

I wouldn't be surprised if Bieber did the Weird Science song for the remake. In case any didn't know already Elfman wrote and sang the original "Weird Science" song.

 

[KalMart]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bieber did the Weird Science song for the remake.

Iron Man's first film I think...or at least very early...

In case any didn't know already Elfman wrote and sang the original "Weird Science" song.

His best work was in Oingo Boingo, and his appearance in Back To School....also with Iron Man.

 

[Elevator Man]

Iron Man's first film I think...or at least very early...



His best work was in Oingo Boingo, and his appearance in Back To School....also with Iron Man.

I think Firstborn was RDJr's first movie. Where the "REAL" Robocop played an abusive drug dealer and boyfriend of Teri Garr's (who played a divorced mother to the late Corey Haim or another young actor ). Pretty good 80s movie. I think RDJr played a friend of the older brother/son. It wasn't a big role, but RDJr had big gap back then.

I like Oingo Boingo but I'm glad Elfman became a film composer. He came a long wayfrom" Little Girls" to "Cirque Du Soleil Iris", imho.

 

[KalMart]

I think Firstborn was RDJr's first movie. Where the "REAL" Robocop played an abusive drug dealer and boyfriend of Teri Garr's (who played a divorced mother to the late Corey Haim or another young actor ). Pretty good 80s movie. I think RDJr played a friend of the older brother/son. It wasn't a big role, but RDJr had big gap back then.

I like Oingo Boingo but I'm glad Elfman became a film composer. He came a long wayfrom" Little Girls" to "Cirque Du Soleil Iris", imho.

I never saw Firstborn. Need to get to that.

The only Elfman scores I like are for Midnight Run and Dead Presidents. Actually Wanted I thought was okay. But personally, I find him to be the most redundant, overused and overrated film composer in history. But I don't have a problem with people liking him.

And I like the Devo guy's work.

 

[BatLobster]

Elfman's Batman scores are nothing alike. The Batman theme is the only theme that returns from the B89 score. Which makes sense that is Batman's theme in the Burton films, but even that's taken in a different direction in BR. The scores (as well as the films) couldn't be any more different from eachother. BR score is more in the vein of his Edward Scissorhands score as is the film itself. There's barely a difference in Zimmer's Batman scores.

I am really trying to not derail this thread into a Bat-score debate, but that is just not true. TDK and TDKR had a plenty of new cues that were not in Begins. The scores evolved along with the films. There is a lot of stuff on the TDK and TDKR OSTs that would have been downright out of place on the Begins score. It all served the direction of the movies, which were very different from each other.

I love Danny Elfman's Batman scores (seriously I LIVED for those scores growing up), but it's discouraging to see you take a swipe at Zimmer every time someone says anything remotely negative about Elfman's work.

I get that you're a huge Elfman aficionado and I respect that, but sometimes I just don't get why you're always trying to pick a fight with Zimmer fans. Most Zimmer fans you find here aren't the "OMG IT IS THE SOUND OF GOD'S TEARS RAINING DOWN FROM HEAVEN, ZIMMER IS OUR MODERN MOZART!" 14 year old types you find on youtube.

It's not cool to just take a stereotype and then just apply it to anybody who reacts excitedly or positively about Zimmer's work on here. The fact that you misread Naite22's comment, to me shows the bias you read into comments and how quick you are to go into defense-mode. You seem to me like someone who thinks you're the guy who has to stand up for Elfman/Williams here because we're a bunch of blind Zimmer-ites, but I bet you if there was an overall SHH! poll for favorite Batman theme, Elfman would win. And I bet you Williams would still win favorite Superman theme, post-MOS. That doesn't mean a lot of people aren't genuine in their love of Zimmer's superhero scores and find them to perfectly fit the films they are attached to. Rather than always bashing Zimmer's superhero work with dismissive one-liners, I'd rather see you do in depth critiques of his scores like the ones you do for Elfman. I would respect that.

 

[Elevator Man]

I never saw Firstborn. Need to get to that.

It's pretty good. It might come off like a Lifetime movie today, but I liked it. Pre-Robo Peter Weller was mean in that movie.

The only Elfman scores I like are for Midnight Run and Dead Presidents. Actually Wanted I thought was okay. But personally, I find him to be the most redundant, overused and overrated film composer in history. But I don't have a problem with people liking him.

That's cool. Despite what some might believe I have no problem with people disliking Elfman's music. I know his music isn't a lot of people's cup of tea.

And I like the Devo guy's work.

I'm only familiar with Elfman's Cirque music. Haven't really followed the other Cirque scores.

 

[KalMart]

It's pretty good. It might come off like a Lifetime movie today, but I liked it. Pre-Robo Peter Weller was mean in that movie.



That's cool. Despite what some might believe I have no problem with people disliking Elfman's music. I know his music isn't a lot of people's cup of tea.



I'm only familiar with Elfman's Cirque music. Haven't really followed the other Cirque scores.

I meant Mark Mothersbaugh,...the composer on some Wes Anderson movies, and he used to be in Devo.

Speaking of rock people...you know who I really think missed his calling, in that he should have been a big film composer? Townsend. Actually, he's done some 'plays' and his own 'rock opera' stuff, but still.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Rather than always bashing Zimmer's superhero work with dismissive one-liners, I'd rather see you do in depth critiques of his scores like the ones you do for Elfman. I would respect that.

I know you are responding to someone else, but I personally have done in-depth critiques of Zimmer's scores here (particularly on the batboards) and they were not well received (i.e. people got very angry).

Critiquing Zimmer doesn't tend to fly around here, as you get labeled a blind Elfman or Williams fanboy. There's no substantive exchange of ideas.

 

[Jim-El]

Alright guys...

I decided to take a shot at doing a recreation of the trailer music. I'm more of a rock/guitar based musician, only recently dipping my toes into the world of orchestral composition and I thought this could be a fun little warm up project.

It's definitely not perfect and the best plugins in the world aren't going to give you the same effect as DAT drum circle. I just wanted to get it out there. Some feedback would definitely be greatly appreciated

https://soundcloud.com/downburdenchef/mos-trailer-3-music-recreation

Wow Dude...That's AWESOME!! Thanks for sharing!

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I think it has something to do with Zimmer's overwhelming popularity. Zimmer's keynote work, the POTC and Batman scores (along with JNH), have given him mass appeal that few other composers have. At this point, he's probably more popular than John Williams is. So by going against his prestige, one invites him or herself to overwhelming criticism.

It's sad, but in some cases, I think his success as a composer is because of the films he scores, and not the music itself. The new Joker theme comes to mind. It's unsettling and effective, but is not unlike an orchestra tuning up.

I'm not saying that everything should be a memorable theme. But at the same time, I want the score to reflect the nuance of the movie.

Don't get me wrong, I love the music he did for Rain-Man, The Thin Red Line, The Lion King, Prince of Egypt and Crimson Tide. Even Backdrift has its moments. Gladiator is his last really strong score, and Sherlock Holmes has elements I like. But somewhere along the 2005-2006 era when he was working on the Pirates sequels, his style changed.

Yes, he always had a powerful electronic influence, but it didn't overpower the listener like his late works now do. Perhaps that's why many people LIKE them, but I feel like something was lost as of late.

His new works are generally less like film music, and more like symphonic rock music.

And yes, I was pulling for John Powell, even though I knew that Hans would land the role. That being said, Man of Steel has a warmer, softer quality than usual, despite some killer drums.

I feel like MOS might be the film that causes him to return to his more "classic" sound. I'd have to hear more of the new OST to judge, but I already like it more than his D-minor-A major Batman leitmotif.

So don't take this as a Zimmer-hate-rant. Something has to be very good to be overrated, Twilight aside

And yes, I like Elfman. He should have scored Spider-Man 3.

 

[Elevator Man]

I meant Mark Mothersbaugh,...the composer on some Wes Anderson movies, and he used to be in Devo.

Speaking of rock people...you know who I really think missed his calling, in that he should have been a big film composer? Townsend. Actually, he's done some 'plays' and his own 'rock opera' stuff, but still.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Cirque music. Like I said I'm not familiar music from other Cirque shows just Elfman's. And I assumed you were talking about Cirque music. My mistake. I'm not familiar with Devo or Mothersbaugh's work.

Zimmer was from a rock band too I believe. And though I'm not a fan of Paul Haslinger's work. I heard he was part of Tangerine Dream. They replaced Goldsmith's music to Ridley Scott's Legend (for the US releases anyway). They also did the music for the underrated Near Dark. There's quite a few film composers that started in rock bands.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Scrapped Jerry Goldsmith? Blasphemy

 

[BatLobster]

I know you are responding to someone else, but I personally have done in-depth critiques of Zimmer's scores here (particularly on the batboards) and they were not well received (i.e. people got very angry).

Critiquing Zimmer doesn't tend to fly around here, as you get labeled a blind Elfman or Williams fanboy. There's no substantive exchange of ideas.

Alright, well I guess I haven't come across your critiques, and knowing you as a poster I'm sure they're very well thought-out and well-written. That said, I always observed a pretty even split between Zimmer fans and Elfman fans on the Bat-boards.

That said, I'd be legitimately interested in what Elevator Man has to say about Zimmer's Batman scores in an in depth analysis beyond "it's just sound design, noise and it's dull". Because he writes very passionate, detailed reviews of all of Elfman's scores. I'd love to have an actual discussion instead of the same old mudslinging contest.

I'm a Zimmer fan and I don't bite

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

"That said, I'd be legitimately interested in what Elevator Man has to say about Zimmer's Batman scores in an in depth analysis beyond "it's just sound design, noise and it's dull". Because he writes very passionate, detailed reviews of all of Elfman's scores. I'd love to have an actual discussion instead of the same old mudslinging contest.

I'm a Zimmer fan and I don't bite. "

Hooray for you Batlobster!

 

[jasvll]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Cirque music. Like I said I'm not familiar music from other Cirque shows just Elfman's. And I assumed you were talking about Cirque music. My mistake. I'm not familiar with Devo or Mothersbaugh's work.

Sure you are. He wrote the Rugrats theme. t:

He actually has a pretty large production music and original score resume, so his music is out there. He's just not one of those 'known' composers.

 

[KalMart]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Cirque music. Like I said I'm not familiar music from other Cirque shows just Elfman's. And I assumed you were talking about Cirque music. My mistake. I'm not familiar with Devo or Mothersbaugh's work.

Zimmer was from a rock band too I believe. And though I'm not a fan of Paul Haslinger's work. I heard he was part of Tangerine Dream. They replaced Goldsmith's music to Ridley Scott's Legend (for the US releases anyway). They also did the music for the underrated Near Dark. There's quite a few film composers that started in rock bands.

Michael Kamen, Stew Copeland.

You don't remember Devo?

 

[KalMart]

I know you are responding to someone else, but I personally have done in-depth critiques of Zimmer's scores here (particularly on the batboards) and they were not well received (i.e. people got very angry).

Critiquing Zimmer doesn't tend to fly around here, as you get labeled a blind Elfman or Williams fanboy. There's no substantive exchange of ideas.

I had some critiques of Zimmer as well and someone, I forget who, tried to piss n' moan about it as well...completely ignoring all the times I've actually defended his work before and after. Sometimes you're just dealing with children, and that's it.

 

[Elevator Man]

I am really trying to not derail this thread into a Bat-score debate, but that is just not true. TDK and TDKR had a plenty of new cues that were not in Begins. The scores evolved along with the films. There is a lot of stuff on the TDK and TDKR OSTs that would have been downright out of place on the Begins score. It all served the direction of the movies, which were very different from each other.

The action material in the climax of each film is 90% the same, imo. Each concludes with the same piece where Batman defeats the main antagonist in the climax. The parts where the bats swarm Wayne in the batcave during BB doesnt sound that different from how it's used in the sequels. The "Rise" track starts off with the same music as when the bats swarm the cops at Arkham. As well as in TDK where Batman goes after Lao. The last two minutes of "Rise" doesn't sound that differnt from the last two minutes of music in TDK's ending. The music that plays as Batman makes a surprise attack (or the piece that opens the end credits) specially in TDK and Rises sounds the same everytime with just minor tweaks. The only thing that seperates each score is the Joker motif, Bane Chant (that's what I call it), and Catwoman motif, imo. The Harvey Dent theme (eventhough it was written by JNH) just sounds like an extended piece from one of Zimmer's variations of his Batman motif. I also think the piece where Crane was drugged and hallucinates of Batman being death or whatever is similar to the piece when the Joker held Rachel hostage and before he drops her off the top of the penthouse. I know there's other moments I just can't think of any right now. BB is probably the most fresh of the three, but TDK and Rises both for the most part feel like rehashes of eachother.

I love Danny Elfman's Batman scores (seriously I LIVED for those scores growing up), but it's discouraging to see you take a swipe at Zimmer every time someone says anything remotely negative about Elfman's work.

If I disagree with someone or something somebody posted I'm not going sit there and ignore it. I speak up about it. (Like I'm sure you do as well.) Especially when it comes to scores or whatever I'm passionate about.

I get that you're a huge Elfman aficionado and I respect that, but sometimes I just don't get why you're always trying to pick a fight with Zimmer fans. Most Zimmer fans you find here aren't the "OMG IT IS THE SOUND OF GOD'S TEARS RAINING DOWN FROM HEAVEN, ZIMMER IS OUR MODERN MOZART!" 14 year old types you find on youtube.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with Zimmer fans or you, when people give him high praise, which I don't think he deserves for his Batman scores. Again I'm going to speak up about it. I know it's their opinion but I don't share it. What's wrong me disagreeing?

It's not cool to just take a stereotype and then just apply it to anybody who reacts excitedly or positively about Zimmer's work on here. The fact that you misread Naite22's comment, to me shows the bias you read into comments and how quick you are to go into defense-mode. You seem to me like someone who thinks you're the guy who has to stand up for Elfman/Williams here because we're a bunch of blind Zimmer-ites, but I bet you if there was an overall SHH! poll for favorite Batman theme, Elfman would win. And I bet you Williams would still win favorite Superman theme, post-MOS. That doesn't mean a lot of people aren't genuine in their love of Zimmer's superhero scores and find them to perfectly fit the films they are attached to. Rather than always bashing Zimmer's superhero work with dismissive one-liners, I'd rather see you do in depth critiques of his scores like the ones you do for Elfman. I would respect that.

I like Zimmer when he's not scoring blockbuster adventure movies all the time. I think he's a good composer but the way people call him "The next John Williams!". I take offense. Zimmer always seems to have additional composers on every film these days. He even had help on Frost/Nixon. As well as Gladiator (arguably my favorite score from Zimmer) he had some help on. I know that's how he prefers to work, but I don't recall Williams ever relying on other people for assisitance on any of his scores. He's a great composer but isn't anywhere on the same level as Williams, Morricone, Goldsmith, or Herrmann to name a few. Yeah who is, but If you and many believe that fine that's your opinion. However I sadly and strongly disagree with that.

It's easy for me to do a critical analysis on something I enjoy like Walker's B:TAS scores. I can talk about those in a positive way all day . Zimmer's Batman scores wouldn't be easy for me to talk about. Especially with me giving a negative critical analysis on it. Some might take offense with that, but since you suggest it I might take you up on that. Well with BB and TDk scores at least. Since I can find things to like about those two scores mainly the JNH material. I got to be in the mood and find the time to do that though. I already gave my first impressions on TDKR score back in January. If you haven't read it. I posted it on another thread instead of TDKR score thread b/c a lot of the fans would take offense with that. It's negative and harsh so read at you own risk. I'll admit it's probably more of a biased rant than a critique.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=24930803&postcount=104

The only reason I gave "critques" (if that's what you want to call 'em) on Elfman's scores was b/c it only dealt with his scores from the last decade. A lot of posters on this site and others believe he hadn't written a good score since "Sleepy Hollow" or "Mission Impossible" or pretty much anything before "Spider-Man". I was trying to make a point that I believed he did. These "critiques" were very time consuming. I'm also not the best with words as I try to explain film music and how it affects me emotionally. I make unintentional typos and grammar mistakes b/c I try to type it up fast.

Though I ain't making any promises I might take you up on that. It'll have to be the pros and cons of each score. If I ever decide to do it I'll post it on "Greatest Composer Of A Batman Film?" thread or start another thread dealing with the pros and cons of Zimmer's Batman scores. So we'll see.

^ I think it has something to do with Zimmer's overwhelming popularity. Zimmer's keynote work, the POTC and Batman scores (along with JNH), have given him mass appeal that few other composers have. At this point, he's probably more popular than John Williams is. So by going against his prestige, one invites him or herself to overwhelming criticism.

It's sad, but in some cases, I think his success as a composer is because of the films he scores, and not the music itself. The new Joker theme comes to mind. It's unsettling and effective, but is not unlike an orchestra tuning up.

I'm not saying that everything should be a memorable theme. But at the same time, I want the score to reflect the nuance of the movie.

Don't get me wrong, I love the music he did for Rain-Man, The Thin Red Line, The Lion King, Prince of Egypt and Crimson Tide. Even Backdrift has its moments. Gladiator is his last really strong score, and Sherlock Holmes has elements I like. But somewhere along the 2005-2006 era when he was working on the Pirates sequels, his style changed.

Yes, he always had a powerful electronic influence, but it didn't overpower the listener like his late works now do. Perhaps that's why many people LIKE them, but I feel like something was lost as of late.

His new works are generally less like film music, and more like symphonic rock music.

And yes, I was pulling for John Powell, even though I knew that Hans would land the role. That being said, Man of Steel has a warmer, softer quality than usual, despite some killer drums.

I feel like MOS might be the film that causes him to return to his more "classic" sound. I'd have to hear more of the new OST to judge, but I already like it more than his D-minor-A major Batman leitmotif.

So don't take this as a Zimmer-hate-rant. Something has to be very good to be overrated, Twilight aside

And yes, I like Elfman. He should have scored Spider-Man 3.

You hit the nail on the head with this post for me especially on Zimmer's batman and current action scores.

 

[Elevator Man]

Sure you are. He wrote the Rugrats theme. t:

He actually has a pretty large production music and original score resume, so his music is out there. He's just not one of those 'known' composers.

I've heard of him, but I don't follow his work. I think he writes music for a lot of comedies/romantic comedies. Didn't know he wrote the Rugrats theme, which is cool. But then again I haven't seen that show since I was little.

Michael Kamen, Stew Copeland.

You don't remember Devo?

Sorry. I'm almost embarassed to admit I'm not familiar with Devo.

 

[KalMart]

I've heard of him, but I don't follow his work. I think he writes music for a lot of comedies/romantic comedies. Didn't know he wrote the Rugrats theme, which is cool. But then again I haven't seen that show since I was little.



Sorry. I'm almost embarassed to admit I'm not familiar with Devo.

http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...0.0.170.613.6j1.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.zmFV9QAScVA

Whip It!

 

[BatLobster]

@ EM,

It's not you disagreeing that I have an issue with. It's things like jumping in this thread right after the trailer debuted with remarks like, "Looks like the Zimmer worshipers are already overrating it" without having even seen the trailer that seems equally as over the top as any over the top praise that might be out there.

My thing is, I usually have an issue in general with people who go over the top in criticizing someone's work as a means of taking out their frustration on a given fanbase. It's not your opinions, nor you choosing to voice them that bothers me, it's the consistently confrontational tone. I read your post about the TDKR score, and actually do remember it from last summer. You're right, it's more of a rant than anything constructive. I loved TDKR's score. It found it to be the most stirring and emotionally powerful work of his Batman scores, and I still listen to it regularly. Does that make me a butt-kissing Zimmer drone that just happily lops up whatever I'm served? Do you see what I mean? If you're "offended" by someone simply overrating Zimmer as a composer, how am I supposed to feel as a Zimmer fan when you repeatedly bash not the man, but his fans? It just seems like an extremely pretentious position to take to me. That's why I think if you're not trying to pick a fight with Zimmer's fans, you are highly misguided in your efforts, generally speaking. Unless you think they're too dense to realize when they're being insulted. Which is then exponentially more insulting, at least to me.

If you take me up on my challenge, cool. I'm not expecting you to as I imagine those longer score analysis posts are very time consuming, and I don't blame you for not wanting to write at length about something you aren't passionate about. I personally hated Silvestri's Avengers scores. And I'm a fan of a lot of Silvestri's work, but man I thought that was cookie cutter, flat, dull, uninspired work that didn't do a single thing for me, and it actually knocked the entire film down a peg for me. But I don't talk about that incessantly, because I have no desire to. I think FlamingCoco hit the nail on the head when he said Zimmer is mainly a target because he's so prominent these days and gets a lot of praise. Perhaps deserved, perhaps not entirely deserved.

Ah well, the world keeps spinning I suppose.

 

[Elevator Man]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Devo&oq=Devo&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.323.3494.0.4231.10.7.3.0.0.0.170.613.6j1.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.zmFV9QAScVA

Whip It!

Thanks for refreshing my memory.

Now I'm really embarrassed, but I should've been clear in the beginning that I don't really follow bands from any music genre. I only got into Boingo a few years ago out of curiosity of Elfman's career before he became a composer. I was a little cautious at first, but I ended up liking most of their songs.