Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - Part 18

[misslane38]

I feel badly for you because we've been getting Batman movies at a fairly steady clip, with two interims, since 1989. And it's obvious we'll get Wonder Gal movies as long as she feels like sticking around.

Superman fans haven't been that deprived. He's had an almost nonstop presence in live action media since the 1950s. If one counts animation, he's gotten even more steady exposure with things like the Fleischer cartoons of the 1940s and the Superman animated series of the 1990s.

In TV and film, there were the movie serials starring Kirk Alyn, then the TV show Adventures of Superman that ran throughout the 50s. The 60s were a bit of a dry spell, but even during that time there was a Broadway musical and animated TV series. In the 70s and 80s were the Reeve films and the Ruby Spears animated show, and only about 5 years after the Reeve films concluded, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman debuted on TV. However, the live action TV show Superboy aired during that gap.

So, in the 1990s there was Lois & Clark and Superman: The Animated Series. Just about 5 years after Lois & Clark ended, Smallville began. It ran for 10 years. During its 6th season, Superman Returns came out, and by the time its finale aired, Man of Steel was already announced. It came out 2 years after Smallville ended. Then, when Superman wasn't appearing in his own solo or team up movies in the DCEU, he was appearing on Supergirl.

That said, just looking at movies, Batman had a run from 1989-1995 and from 2005-2012. He hasn't had his own solo movie since then, but is likely to get one by about 2020. Superman had a run from 1978-1987. He had a film in 2006 and 2013. It's not been as many, but he's had a lot more TV to fill the gaps.

 

[MbJ]

I posted this on Mario's page the other day:

"For as much as the word "Hope" and what it means for Superman to represent, WB sure does leave the character and his fans hopeless."

The ironic thing is that Superman seems to be a casualty here with the DCEU but yet there is literal movement from all other characters involved. Superman was pushed out of his own sequel where BvS became a Batman film, died in the movie, wasn't even marketed for JL and wasn't even in the movie much as it was led by Ben and Gal and JL bombed hard on its pitiful face but yet...Superman gets it.

F#_&cking ridiculous. If anything, they should have got Superman's house in order and we probably wouldn't be here right now. Batman was the main squeeze in BvS and was an absolute joke in JL but WB is willing to even wait on an actor that clearly hated playing every second of the character.

I'm on a bad mood today. Forgive my piss-pants rant.

It's like Superman has some sort of monkey's paw curse on him. Still, don't lose hope. I feel we are in store for something good.

 

[kguillou]

"HOPE is not a plan!"-- Henry Cavill in MI: Fallout.

 

[Patchwork Man]

Superman fans haven't been that deprived. He's had an almost nonstop presence in live action media since the 1950s. If one counts animation, he's gotten even more steady exposure with things like the Fleischer cartoons of the 1940s and the Superman animated series of the 1990s.

In TV and film, there were the movie serials starring Kirk Alyn, then the TV show Adventures of Superman that ran throughout the 50s. The 60s were a bit of a dry spell, but even during that time there was a Broadway musical and animated TV series. In the 70s and 80s were the Reeve films and the Ruby Spears animated show, and only about 5 years after the Reeve films concluded, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman debuted on TV. However, the live action TV show Superboy aired during that gap.

So, in the 1990s there was Lois & Clark and Superman: The Animated Series. Just about 5 years after Lois & Clark ended, Smallville began. It ran for 10 years. During its 6th season, Superman Returns came out, and by the time its finale aired, Man of Steel was already announced. It came out 2 years after Smallville ended. Then, when Superman wasn't appearing in his own solo or team up movies in the DCEU, he was appearing on Supergirl.

That said, just looking at movies, Batman had a run from 1989-1995 and from 2005-2012. He hasn't had his own solo movie since then, but is likely to get one by about 2020. Superman had a run from 1978-1987. He had a film in 2006 and 2013. It's not been as many, but he's had a lot more TV to fill the gaps.

Yes, all of the above is accurate and true. I was counting live-action feature films only. I didn't watch (most of) Smallville, nor Lois & Clark. I binge the CW shows whenever possible since I'm usually unable to watch them new.

 

[STARMAN]

It's not that he hasn't 't had opportunities on the big screen. It is that they've been squandered dating back to 1983. We then waited 19 years with all those Superman projects in development that never materialized. Superman Returns comes out supposedly to start a trilogy and never gets a sequel. We wait another seven years. MOS comes out and we haven't gotten a standalone sequel and the future of such a project is unclear.


The best thing to happen to Green Lantern was not being a part of this universe.

 

[Jekecy]

It's not that he hasn't 't had opportunities on the big screen. It is that they've been squandered dating back to 1983. We then waited 19 years with all those Superman projects in development that never materialized. Superman Returns comes out supposedly to start a trilogy and never gets a sequel. We wait another seven years. MOS comes out and we haven't gotten a standalone sequel and the future of such a project is unclear.

The worst part of all this is they’ve diminished the impact of Superman’s return to cinemas…twice. I can only imagine the numbers and hype a truly satisfying Superman could be in this day and age of a superhero boon.

Imagine if Reeve was truly the last live-action Supes, and 40 years later we’re teased of Big Blue finally coming back to the silver screen? I’d bet even Marvel fans would anticipate such a tremendous comeback from the granddaddy of superheroes.

But with so many setbacks and false starts, that party is ruined now. Even if a new reboot could come back with the same quality of a Batman Begins or Casino Royale, it would have been the third attempt in just over a decade. It doesn’t have the same luster.

It’s crazy, but I’m cool with letting this IP be dormant for a bit. Let people get hungry for Supes again, and then hit ‘em big with a film we’ve always wanted. Maybe by then the superhero craze is dwindling down, and it’s Supes who gets the limelight in reenergizing the field.

 

[misslane38]

Yes, all of the above is accurate and true. I was counting live-action feature films only. I didn't watch (most of) Smallville, nor Lois & Clark. I binge the CW shows whenever possible since I'm usually unable to watch them new.

I thought so. I guess I just thought framing or restricting it that way just to present a situation where one should feel sorry for Superman fans felt like a bit of a reach. Superman fans may not be as blessed as Batman fans, especially in film, but they are still given quite a bit. It just feels somewhat entitled to complain when some characters barely get even that.

 

[GothamBat]

I'd never seen this before

 

[batfreakforever]

Superman fans haven't been that deprived. He's had an almost nonstop presence in live action media since the 1950s. If one counts animation, he's gotten even more steady exposure with things like the Fleischer cartoons of the 1940s and the Superman animated series of the 1990s.

In TV and film, there were the movie serials starring Kirk Alyn, then the TV show Adventures of Superman that ran throughout the 50s. The 60s were a bit of a dry spell, but even during that time there was a Broadway musical and animated TV series. In the 70s and 80s were the Reeve films and the Ruby Spears animated show, and only about 5 years after the Reeve films concluded, Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman debuted on TV. However, the live action TV show Superboy aired during that gap.

So, in the 1990s there was Lois & Clark and Superman: The Animated Series. Just about 5 years after Lois & Clark ended, Smallville began. It ran for 10 years. During its 6th season, Superman Returns came out, and by the time its finale aired, Man of Steel was already announced. It came out 2 years after Smallville ended. Then, when Superman wasn't appearing in his own solo or team up movies in the DCEU, he was appearing on Supergirl.

That said, just looking at movies, Batman had a run from 1989-1995 and from 2005-2012. He hasn't had his own solo movie since then, but is likely to get one by about 2020. Superman had a run from 1978-1987. He had a film in 2006 and 2013. It's not been as many, but he's had a lot more TV to fill the gaps.

I just need to say Batman had a run from 1989-1997 not 1995. Not a big deal but that is the truth. Thank you. Honest mistake.

 

[BH/HHH]

I'd never seen this before

Awesome

 

[Patchwork Man]

I thought so. I guess I just thought framing or restricting it that way just to present a situation where one should feel sorry for Superman fans felt like a bit of a reach. Superman fans may not be as blessed as Batman fans, especially in film, but they are still given quite a bit. It just feels somewhat entitled to complain when some characters barely get even that.

Well, there's a little more to it than that. Just some inside humor between Tra-el and myself.

 

[Herolee10]

I posted this on Mario's page the other day:

"For as much as the word "Hope" and what it means for Superman to represent, WB sure does leave the character and his fans hopeless."

The ironic thing is that Superman seems to be a casualty here with the DCEU but yet there is literal movement from all other characters involved. Superman was pushed out of his own sequel where BvS became a Batman film, died in the movie, wasn't even marketed for JL and wasn't even in the movie much as it was led by Ben and Gal and JL bombed hard on its pitiful face but yet...Superman gets it.

F#_&cking ridiculous. If anything, they should have got Superman's house in order and we probably wouldn't be here right now. Batman was the main squeeze in BvS and was an absolute joke in JL but WB is willing to even wait on an actor that clearly hated playing every second of the character.

I'm on a bad mood today. Forgive my piss-pants rant.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Yeah admittedly, I was left wanting with Cavill in MI:6. He was good, but, again wasted potential. i kept waiting for the part where Henry's character really broke out and showed how much of an evil badass he was but it never came, he was nothing more than an enforcer by the end of the movie.

M:I Fallout was a great movie but I thought Cavill was a little wooden and the weakest part of the movie actingwise. I really wonder if it's the direction he's getting because I remember I really liked him as Napoleon Solo in The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

 

[Tra-El]

I thought so. I guess I just thought framing or restricting it that way just to present a situation where one should feel sorry for Superman fans felt like a bit of a reach. Superman fans may not be as blessed as Batman fans, especially in film, but they are still given quite a bit. It just feels somewhat entitled to complain when some characters barely get even that.

I'm very proud to be a Superman fan and I understand the value he has and the value that exists today when it pertains to what pop culture has givin' us fans. I am grateful and fruitful for what has been provided over the decades. I appreciate the extent of Superman's mythos
and bask in what the market consists of when it comes to the character.

That said, his cinematic squanderings, especially in the recent years and even dating back to 2006 and prior doesn't leave me feeling any better inside, especially seeing inferior characters climb the rankings basically over night while WB continues to have a helping hand in Superman being stuck in nuetral. The constant 1 step forward; 10 steps back on the big screen when it's ripe for the taking would annoy even the most casual fan. The needle has moved so slowly that myths like the "The Superman Curse" could be debated.

Nontheless, I'm an eternal optimist and believe Superman will eventually get what he deserves. Until then, it will continue to be a giant "what could have been" and "what could be" feeling for some who are just ready to see the character flurish and never look back on the big screen because God knows it's been quite some time to when everything was clicking for such a beloved icon.

 

[Tra-El]

M:I Fallout was a great movie but I thought Cavill was a little wooden and the weakest part of the movie actingwise. I really wonder if it's the direction he's getting because I remember I really liked him as Napoleon Solo in The Man from U.N.C.L.E.

Saw Fallout tonight with my wife. That film is the epitome of real-deal action. The movie flowed and was doused in it from beginning to end without skipping a beat. A total thrill ride.

The whole time I kept thinking to myself how happy I was for Henry to actually be givin' more material to work with and be allowed to do things that showed off his natural presence. His delivery was really good and he felt very menacing at times. He basically held his own in a role that was one-note. I thought Cavill played that type of part really well and he served the role solidly. He had a great vibe going in the beginning. That eventually tapered off but I felt he picked it back up in the third act. A McQuarrie/ Cavil Superman film would be bonkers!

 

[misslane38]

That said, his cinematic squanderings, especially in the recent years and even dating back to 2006 and prior doesn't leave me feeling any better inside, especially seeing inferior characters climb the rankings basically over night while WB continues to have a helping hand in Superman being stuck in nuetral. The constant 1 step forward; 10 steps back on the big screen when it's ripe for the taking would annoy even the most casual fan. The needle has moved so slowly that myths like the "The Superman Curse" could be debated.

I'm a lifelong Superman fan too, and I share your disappointment that his film history has some rocky bits. However, I don't feel jealous about other characters. One of the reasons I feel Superman has struggled for awhile is because he evokes so many things that people wrestle with in the modern world, like masculinity, American patriotism, even religion. Other characters only become a threat because people like novelty, and novelty sometimes acts as a buffer against some criticisms because people don't know what to expect or what they're missing. Other characters also bring something new in terms of their relevance to a more open and diversifying world. Superman used to have greater status simply because he wasn't facing as much competition. Having to earn back his place so he can stand aside characters who offer people something new, like certain groups who see in another hero someone who is their wish fulfillment or power fantasy, instead of taking it for granted is something I welcome. I want the superhero landscape to expand.

Moreover, as much as I love film, to me Superman is really suited to television. There is something to the office setting, romantic comedy, and his heroics that can really shine in that medium. Also, since television is a lot more intimate -- people spend a lot of time with the character and in the comfort of their own homes -- his television shows have had a great deal of impact on creating new fans. Accordingly, as much as I crave a great Superman film as you do, I don't feel as bitter as you do (which isn't to say I don't respect your feelings or that you aren't allowed to feel what you feel). All things considered, I feel blessed.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

As a die hard Superman fan, someone who doesn't mind other heroes and the genre and enjoys all the film's but predominantly only got into it because of Superman. I feel like yes, we have gotten a lot of exposure consistently over the years for Superman, however it's not the exposure that we complain about time after time, it's the quality of the products were given. I'm gonna start from Superboy in the late 80's and go forward as that's when the quality truly started to dip for me. That show was cheap, corny and badly acted to the extreme, nothing to be proud of, just a cash grab from the salkinds. Lois and Clark was again cheap looking, full of corny romance, however had decent acting from all involved. Was serviceable but nothing great. Then we got Smallville, which came out when I was 16 and I absolutely loved the show and was obsessed and proud of it. However it also was a corny teen drama at times and was mocked endlessly by people till it's end. Superman Returns, again was dreary, uninteresting and reused a tired plot and villian from Superman The Movie. Man Of Steel, while a good starting point again used a tired villian in Zod that frankly I was sick of and again is overexposed. BVS had him as a mopey, dreary, sad character who was less interesting than Wonder Woman, who only had like 15 minutes screen time lol. JL, well that movie explains itself.

Superman has had constant exposure, that's true but what kind of quality was it?. Atleast batman had mostly quality in film with the only real exception being Batman and Robin. Movie Superman still hasn't had a fresh story with untapped characters like Brainiac, Darkseid, Manchester Black, metallo etc etc. We keep getting Zod and Luthor over and over and over and it's become stale and old. This is the reason we Superman fans complain. We know we get a lot, but what we get is also well below par considering what his live action outings can bring.

 

[Greenlite]

Unless we are about to get some news that Cavill landed new roles I think the same. Look at Ferguson, she is booking gigs left and right

ya I mean her, Kirby and Harris will probably gain the most exposure and opportunities.

Cavill would be really good at WWE though, with the mustache (CIA's no.1 plumber) lol, get The Rock to sign him up for that.

 

[Willi Berg]

It's not that he hasn't 't had opportunities on the big screen. It is that they've been squandered dating back to 1983. We then waited 19 years with all those Superman projects in development that never materialized. Superman Returns comes out supposedly to start a trilogy and never gets a sequel. We wait another seven years. MOS comes out and we haven't gotten a standalone sequel and the future of such a project is unclear.


The best thing to happen to Green Lantern was not being a part of this universe.

The worst part of all this is they’ve diminished the impact of Superman’s return to cinemas…twice. I can only imagine the numbers and hype a truly satisfying Superman could be in this day and age of a superhero boon.

Imagine if Reeve was truly the last live-action Supes, and 40 years later we’re teased of Big Blue finally coming back to the silver screen? I’d bet even Marvel fans would anticipate such a tremendous comeback from the granddaddy of superheroes.

But with so many setbacks and false starts, that party is ruined now. Even if a new reboot could come back with the same quality of a Batman Begins or Casino Royale, it would have been the third attempt in just over a decade. It doesn’t have the same luster.

It’s crazy, but I’m cool with letting this IP be dormant for a bit. Let people get hungry for Supes again, and then hit ‘em big with a film we’ve always wanted. Maybe by then the superhero craze is dwindling down, and it’s Supes who gets the limelight in reenergizing the field.

That's the main thing for me too. We saw it happen twice. We saw two big opportunities in recent times squandered like that. After the difficulties of 'Superman Returns' we thought MOS finally got things right- not perfect- but aligned just right to finally get the ball rolling again. And that too was squandered.

As for letting Superman be dormant, it already feels like it has been dormant, that by the time things have been set right, deals have been made etc. that enough time will have passed. I am sick of the stops and starts, the derailments etc. Just get this thing moving and keep it moving.

 

[Superchan]

For those of you who have seen the death of superman lives what happened (RIP Schnepp) there was an interview with Lorenzo Debonventura where he said something to the effect of "is there any way where we can take away his red dipers" and that is sadly how the execs at WB think, essentially to them superman is silly/ lame and so they go and get clueless guys like Singer and Snyder who try to make the character "relatable" or try to "grow the character up" and they ended up with disappointment, repeatedly!

Superman as an IP is very strong and profitable (otherwise MOS wouldn't have made 129 mill worth of ticket sales on it's opening) and the concept of superman is as appealing as ever especially in this golden age of superhero cinema but as long as they keep making s***y superman movies the character is going to struggle. Make a good superman movie and they'll come and I honestly don't believe that making a good superman is that hard.

 

[Greenlite]

For those of you who have seen the death of superman lives what happened (RIP Schnepp) there was an interview with Lorenzo Debonventura where he said something to the effect of "is there any way where we can take away his red dipers" and that is sadly how the execs at WB think, essentially to them superman is silly/ lame and so they go and get clueless guys like Singer and Snyder who try to make the character "relatable" or try to "grow the character up" and they ended up with disappointment, repeatedly!

Superman as an IP is very strong and profitable (otherwise MOS wouldn't have made 129 mill worth of ticket sales on it's opening) and the concept of superman is as appealing as ever especially in this golden age of superhero cinema but as long as they keep making s***y superman movies the character is going to struggle. Make a good superman movie and they'll come and I honestly don't believe that making a good superman is that hard.

After watching Fallout I really believe if WB just sign McQ and Cavill together and put the blueprint of that film into Superman, then we're good to go with a stunning success

Like, McQ's Ethan Hunt is basically Superman - he believes in the positives, saves one life even if that cost him the mission, saves a lot more people and improvise to accomplish the mini missions, he always put people first. This theme should resonate GA as far as their impression/desire for a Superman movie's concerned

Then you have the spy/investigation story turned into Lois/Clark investigating cases as reporters, add the fantastic action set pieces and Zimmer's disciple's score, put in his version of a recurring villain, with Sup's IP and "from the director of Fallout", heck, might cast Cruise as Lex Snr as well, this thing will make bank in US AND overseas (at least Wonder Woman worldwide numbers)

 

[BH/HHH]

For those of you who have seen the death of superman lives what happened (RIP Schnepp) there was an interview with Lorenzo Debonventura where he said something to the effect of "is there any way where we can take away his red dipers" and that is sadly how the execs at WB think, essentially to them superman is silly/ lame and so they go and get clueless guys like Singer and Snyder who try to make the character "relatable" or try to "grow the character up" and they ended up with disappointment, repeatedly!

Superman as an IP is very strong and profitable (otherwise MOS wouldn't have made 129 mill worth of ticket sales on it's opening) and the concept of superman is as appealing as ever especially in this golden age of superhero cinema but as long as they keep making s***y superman movies the character is going to struggle. Make a good superman movie and they'll come and I honestly don't believe that making a good superman is that hard.

This 1000% great post

 

[Tra-El]

However, I don't feel jealous about other characters.

Of course and I agree. I'll never be jealous of other properties because quite frankly, even though I am a fan of the genre, my loyalties reside for Big Blue so I don't have that same affection for other hero's as I do Superman. I enjoy others but I'm not as attached to care one way or another. Most of my feelings as a fan depends on where Superman is at in the big picture but it has been amazing to see the genre expand. I'm happy to see fans of other character's enjoy this boom period. We basically all win in the end regardless of certain outcomes and I'm glad these forums exist to discuss a fun hobby with like-minded people.

One of the reasons I feel Superman has struggled for awhile is because he evokes so many things that people wrestle with in the modern world, like masculinity, American patriotism, even religion. Other characters only become a threat because people like novelty, and novelty sometimes acts as a buffer against some criticisms because people don't know what to expect or what they're missing. Other characters also bring something new in terms of their relevance to a more open and diversifying world. Superman used to have greater status simply because he wasn't facing as much competition. Having to earn back his place so he can stand aside characters who offer people something new, like certain groups who see in another hero someone who is their wish fulfillment or power fantasy, instead of taking it for granted is something I welcome.

This reminds me of the message in Action Comics #775 "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way?"

As much as I want to see the Superman and Shazam! mytho's intertwine on the big screen that would eventually lead to a showdown with the Rock's Black Adam and how that would be a breath of fresh air to Superman's cinematic direction, the current landscape with these new age hero's that the audience had no idea about dominating the current scene sets up the perfect scenario for Superman in cinema.

Sure, all these other hero's and anti-hero's are cool and all but...what's so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way? Superman, in the end, reminds us what the epitome and core value's of a true superhero hero represents and it all circles back to one moral idea and that's Superman. Some may feel he's outdated but Superman is at his best when he adapts and adjusts to the world around him while simultaneously staying the same. Action #775 is a perfect segway to the next Superman standalone and there's a chance there to remind the audience why Superman always prevails in the end.

 

[Longshot777]

Since Henry Cavill’s agent is the Rock’s ex wife but still in Rock’s good graces then The Rock should pull his clout, even though he had bad BOX Office in his last movie, and say, IF NO Cavill in Superman then NO Black Adam for me.

Worth a try.

 

[Micromind]

Since Henry Cavill’s agent is the Rock’s ex wife but still in Rock’s good graces then The Rock should pull his clout, even though he had bad BOX Office in his last movie, and say, IF NO Cavill in Superman then NO Black Adam for me.

Worth a try.

Why would Rock do that ?