Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - Part 18

[Patchwork Man]

Let's just wait and see shall we?! It's a no brainer to do a Supergirl film on the back of Wonder Woman etc. For all we know they could have been planning to develop a Supergirl film anyway and it could have nothing to do with Cavill's status. Another thing that hasn't been considered is that discussions could be going well and Cavill appearing in the Supergirl film could be part of his deal that's on the table.

With this announcement, WB now has three films and three times as many female characters leading CBMs than Marvel does.

 

[BH/HHH]

I just posted in a response to Whomani in the all things DC thread which I think makes a lot of sense.

WB and Cavill are a standstill, negotiations aren't over but they aren't agreeing. While they carry on with these talks they develop a film about Superman's cousin Supergirl. So they hire a writer who writes Superman into the film but it's not a lead just a small role maybe like Wonder a Woman's in BvS.

If Cabill signs on they announce his return wil be in the Supergirl movie before moving in to his solo. But if Cavill doesn't return then the hire w new actor who they then introduce in the Supergril film before he goes off into his own film.

With this announcement, WB now has three films and three times as many female characters leading CBMs than Marvel does.

I think WB may want a situation where they have one female led superhero film per year alongside a male led film and maybe a team up or bigger event type picture.

 

[Herolee10]

Reasons for why we should be worried about Superman's future:

1. The fact that Warner Bros isn't even actively looking for writers and an Director for the next superman film, regardless of Henry's status, is very telling.

2. Honestly, considering the political climate that we live in today and how Superman has been used and portrayed on Supergirl's television series, I have no doubt in my mind that they would castrate Superman's character in Supergirl's film as they have done on her show (e.g. having several people saying that Supergirl is the better hero and replacing superman with her as the DCEU'S new beacon of hope, etc.)

3. Regardless of the missteps that have been taken with the character in his last 3 films, it shouldn't be taking Warner Bros this long to get Superman's house in order IF they were legitimately serious about it.

Frankly, there has been nothing to indicate on why we should wait and see while hoping for the best regarding this situation. And honestly Warner Bros doesn't deserve to have our patience either.

Realistically speaking, it is becoming more apparent every day that superman is no more on the big screen. For those that think that I'm being a negative Nancy about this, take a look at the final product of JL. Was I being too negative about that film as well?

 

[Nemeres]

If I recall correctly, your moaning for JL was mostly centered on concerns over Superman's screen time. Was that the film's killing blow?

 

[Herolee10]

If I recall correctly, your moaning for JL was mostly centered on concerns over Superman's screen time. Was that the film's killing blow?

Superman's usage, or lack of thereof, was definitely something that I recall seeing a lot of fans complaining about.

Plus, even Cavill said on how he thought it was a odd move from Warner Bros to not promote the character at all for the film.

Most of his good scenes were either significantly trimmed or cut out altogether.

And I also mentioned on how it he would only be used as the big gun foe the group as opposed towards being an actual source of inspiration.

 

[Greenlite]

I would have gone for the Supergirl film as well, if I were the Hamada I'd want to do exactly what he's doing on this section of the universe

- Wonder Woman
- Harley & the BOP
- Batgirl
- now Supergirl

and we're getting Mera this year

I've been saying it before, get these characters their own movies then get them together for a female JL movie - chuck in Jessica Cruz and Zantana, you're good to go for a billion dollar movie, especially if the upcoming standalone films path the way for a good branding.

It does suck that we're getting Supergirl news before anything with Sup, but if they're still negotiating, that's the way it is. Still hoping though. McQ is too scared to do MI7 now, too much hype, grab him now!

 

[Herolee10]

Henry still negotiating to renew his contract shouldn't be an excuse for why Warner Bros hasn't selected a new director for the project yet or why they haven't hired any screenwriters either.

If Henry signs on then that is one less thing to worry about. However if he doesn't then the only thing that they would have to do is find someone else for the role.

All I keep hearing is just excuses to cover up Warner Bros inability and lack of desire to make another Superman film.

First it was because he had died in BvS and how they had to wait for him to be revived before they could announce anything.

Then it was because they wanted to save the announcement for this year's Comic Con.

Now the reason is because of contract negotiations and how they want other projects to go up first.

 

[STARMAN]

They're not going to hire screenwriters or a director until they decide how they want to go forward with this character. Signing Cavill means going forward with this version. If they don't sign Cavill it means eventually going forward with a different version requiring a different story.

 

[MbJ]

They're not going to hire screenwriters or a director until they decide how they want to go forward with this character. Signing Cavill means going forward with this version. If they don't sign Cavill it means eventually going forward with a different version requiring a different story.

Yup. If Henry is out I'm expecting a soft reboot. I mean I was already expecting a soft reboot, but without Henry I'm thinking an even harder soft reboot.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Cavill was good in Fall Out, but that ain't his franchise and don't want to get into spoilers here. Noomis script sucks. No other projects for him so far, all he got right now is Supes. Grab his bald head and make him sign that contract. lol

 

[STARMAN]

It's tough speculating on negotiations without really knowing what is going on. But it feels like his bluff is being called and I doubt he has an ace up his sleeve.

 

[misslane38]

I'm not expecting any kind of reboot, honestly. The way the DCEU left Cavill's Superman, he's essentially reborn already. Even if WB wanted to start over with the character, I doubt the origin would be redone again. So either way we're likely to see a Superman story that is separated from his early days and includes a new villain who isn't Zod or Luthor.

The only substantive differences I can see between a Superman following the natural trajectory of Cavill's incarnation (accepted by the public, member of the JL, in love with Lois, reporter at the DP, confident, self-assured, at peace) and a new version of the character (accepted by the public, member of the JL, reporter at the DP, confident, self-assured, at peace) would be his relationship with Lois and the status of the Kents.

One of the two elements potentially worth rebooting at this stage would be the secret identity or triangle-for-two, which would have to be resolved anyway by the end of the recast/rebooted film because that trope has an expiration date on its value to the story. WB might want to have both Kents alive or both Kents dead in a reboot. Anything else? Superman's personality, his job, his friends, his relationship with the public, and so on is already covered by the way things settled in JL.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that when Snyder wrapped up his hero's journey for Superman in the DCEU, he left him in such a way that almost anything could happen next and it would fit. If Cavill is to continue, then there's no need for soft or hard reboots. All that needs to be done is to keep telling the same story. Superman is alive. Superman is beloved and trusted. Superman is happy and confident. Superman has a mother, a partner/fiance?, a job, a boss, and superfriends. That's all you need to move forward.

 

[Greenlite]

It's tough speculating on negotiations without really knowing what is going on. But it feels like his bluff is being called and I doubt he has an ace up his sleeve.

Haha you mean using Supergirl to call his bluff?

 

[MbJ]

It's tough speculating on negotiations without really knowing what is going on. But it feels like his bluff is being called and I doubt he has an ace up his sleeve.

I wouldn't be surprised. The rumor was that the issue here is that Henry's team wants more creative control and a pay boost in light of Fallout, while the WB execs don't see any reason to pay him more (especially now that Hamada is being tighter with the DCEU purse than the previous people in charge). If Henry's team is arguing that WB should give him what he wants because his star is on the rise, Supergirl is a pretty surefire way of saying they don't need him if he does decide to act in something else.

 

[STARMAN]

What is weird is how they were supposedly close to a deal. Which makes me think the possibility still exists. But it feels like Cavill will be the one who has to budge. But that's why Garcia is his manager and I'm not.

 

[Herolee10]

They're not going to hire screenwriters or a director until they decide how they want to go forward with this character. Signing Cavill means going forward with this version. If they don't sign Cavill it means eventually going forward with a different version requiring a different story.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the general consensus here was that Warner Bros wanted to take Superman's character in a more brighter and upbeat direction, starting with his return in JL.

So if that is the case then I don't understand on why that would prevent Warner Bros from securing a director and script first, regardless of whether Cavill returns because they already seem to have a idea of where they want the character to go and what they no longer want to do with him as well.

 

[Herolee10]

What is weird is how they were supposedly close to a deal. Which makes me think the possibility still exists. But it feels like Cavill will be the one who has to budge. But that's why Garcia is his manager and I'm not.

It would be both funny and tragic if Mission:Impossible ended up being one of the reasons for Cavill not coming back to the role due to how, because of the film:

1. He wasn't able to shave his mustache in time for the JL re-shoots which made him into a laughing stock for the film.

2. It gave him or Garcia the belief that they could ask for more when negotiating for the renewal of his role only for that stubbornness to end up costing him the gig as well.

 

[STARMAN]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the general consensus here was that Warner Bros wanted to take Superman's character in a more brighter and upbeat direction, starting with his return in JL.

So if that is the case then I don't understand on why that would prevent Warner Bros from securing a director and script first, regardless of whether Cavill returns because they already seem to have a idea of where they want the character to go and what they no longer want to do with him as well.

You may not be simply swapping actors. If Cavill is out you might use that as an opportunity for a different version. Why lock down a script in Cavill's version of the character if you don't sign him?

Something misslane38 said also passed through my mind. With a different version you might have Jonathan still alive. Lois might not know his identity. The new director might want a different backstory free of the Snyder universe where Superman never killed, etc. It's not that I'm recommending these changes but I would leave the new creative team flexibility going forward.

It doesn't pay to go forward until you settle things with Cavill. If you sign him then quickly put things in active development. If not, then figure out if you want to go in an entirely different direction and respond accordingly.

 

[Herolee10]

You may not be simply swapping actors. If Cavill is out you might use that as an opportunity for a different version. Why lock down a script in Cavill's version of the character if you don't sign him?

Something misslane38 said also passed through my mind. With a different version you might have Jonathan still alive. Lois might not know his identity. The new director might want a different backstory free of the Snyder universe where Superman never killed, etc. It's not that I'm recommending these changes but I would leave the new creative team flexibility going forward.

It doesn't pay to go forward until you settle things with Cavill. If you sign him then quickly put things in active development. If not, then figure out if you want to go in an entirely different direction and respond accordingly.

I can understand that however there would be a bigger problem if they decided to drastically change Superman's backstory.

It would mean that the entire DCEU would have to be rectonned as well because of the fact that they are still using the events from Snyder's films as a backdrop for the other solo films (e.g. Aquaman's movie briefly mentions Steppenwolf, Shazam has news articles about Superman's return from the dead and the black zero incident, etc)

If people thought that the continuity for the X-Men films were messy then wait until they see the DCEU'S if they reboot Superman's entire backstory.

 

[STARMAN]

This is WB, Herolee. You know as well as I that WB never makes things easy.

 

[Tra-El]

Only two things I can think of:

1. The Supergirl movie news could tell us that WB wants Superman to be the "glue" of his universe and be the Nick Fury/cameo presence in these films with Cavill as we would build up to his next solo outing and to get to that, we build his family as well.

2. They don't have plans at the moment for Superman and may have a reboot in store years down the road as they use Supergirl to build his universe back up and intoduce a new Superman later on when they figure it out. By that time, Henry may choose to bow out and move on thus, a new face for the character.

 

[Longshot777]

I would have gone for the Supergirl film as well, if I were the Hamada I'd want to do exactly what he's doing on this section of the universe

- Wonder Woman
- Harley & the BOP
- Batgirl
- now Supergirl

and we're getting Mera this year

I've been saying it before, get these characters their own movies then get them together for a female JL movie - chuck in Jessica Cruz and Zantana, you're good to go for a billion dollar movie, especially if the upcoming standalone films path the way for a good branding.

It does suck that we're getting Supergirl news before anything with Sup, but if they're still negotiating, that's the way it is. Still hoping though. McQ is too scared to do MI7 now, too much hype, grab him now!

Yup everyone likes an all female JL.

Just like an all female Ghostbusters and Ocean’s 8

 

[BH/HHH]

They really dont unfortunately.

In any case I do think a lot is being made of a film that has basically just hired a writer. There isn’t even a draft of the script yet.

Also Herolee, expecting them to actively be searching for directors when they’re locked in talks with their lead actors whose asking for creative input is rather silly. You’re pessimism while not completely misunderstood is usually placed in the wrong places. It does sometimes appear that you’re sat at your keyboard waiting for something to drop that you can use to back up that.

 

[Herolee10]

This is WB, Herolee. You know as well as I that WB never makes things easy.

True.

Between Why Bother Studios

&

Doesn't Care Comics, it's like a race against time to see on which side will make the bigger mistake.

In all seriousness though, I feel like fans are screwed either way when it comes to whether Cavill signs a new deal or not.

Just because he signs, it doesn't necessarily mean that they will be able to find a new and competent director soon afterwards. And it also doesn't mean that he will get his own solo film again. They could end up just giving him the hulk deal where he only shows up in group films or as a cameo in other films. And I honestly doubt that Warner Bros would want to invest in a new superman movie when they can continue riding the Wonder Woman train while making movies about more popular heroes (e.g. Harley Quinn, Batman, etc).

Simply put, I'm willing to bet a lot that Superman's franchise is dead for good.

Superman 3, 4, and Returns made it sick. But the DCEU killed it for good.

 

[Mach2Infinity]

What some are forgetting is Walter Hamada has taken over as president of DC Films fairly recently so clearly with new management things will change. That doesn't mean we won't get a new Superman film only that it may not come as soon as we'd like. I do feel for Henry Cavill. He's been hamstrung from the get-go by Zack Snyder's grimdark nihilistic approach and then tachegate. Although with the soft reboot in JL and no more screw-ups from WB in future hopefully we'll get the Superman film we've all been waiting for.