Justice League Henry Cavill IS Clark Kent/Superman - - - - - - - - - - Part 19

[_Superman_]

That's the thing I love about JL return of Superman scene because as the ship doors open you see him doing this exact same thing again.

 

[STARMAN]

WB did not want to financially commit to this version of Superman for a solo nor reboot so they were compromising with cameos. It's better to have a clean break than dangling out this version without fully committing to it.

 

[_Superman_]

If they had only let Snyder release his version, then course corrected everything (if need be) as literally that movie finished with Clark and Bruce as pals, WW alive and well and doing her thing... Barry ready to be a hero, Cyborg a new suit and happy with who he is and Arthur Curry ready to fight another day.

The negative press JL received - cgi lip, director issues, fans pissed off, mixed reviews and extra $ spent surely is the same as what Snyder's version may have recieved 'too dark and scary, choppy editing and pacing'.

I seriously think people still would have had faith in WW1984. Shazam still would have been seen like a breath of fresh air and AM still would have looked cool.
So they would have been in the same position now, except Cavill probably wouldn't have played hardball, directors would have been keener to carry on with superman, batman, well, at least Affleck wouldn't maybe wanna wash his hands so quick.

If anything, they should have sat down and said.. line drawn, what now moving forward, let's look at it as a clean slate.

This is what I have been saying all along because you wouldn't have had any of these leaks. You could've pleased both fan bases who wanted to see Snyder finish his story and the ones who wanted to have a soft reboot afterwards because Johns was brought aboard to help with JL to work with Snyder and wrap up his story but give them a fresh new start as well. The only issue was JL was going to be a launching point for his and Affleck's The Batman movie. But this is what they should've done. Also I don't blame Cavill for playing hardball when because of their (WB) interference his Superman has become a joke. They cut most of his scene and good moments out of BvS that the only way you can see it is by buying the UC Blu-ray when the UC should've been the version they show on TV and HBO since it was and his Superman/Clark was better received in that version. They also reshot all of his scenes for JL which turned him into a joke when by all accounts of the people who worked on it before the reshoots and Johns himself said it had some of the best Superman moments ever. So I don't mind him playing hardball at all.

 

[heatvision38]

I'm oddly okay with this.

It's called Stockholm.

 

[Black Narcissus]

WB did not want to financially commit to this version of Superman for a solo nor reboot so they were compromising with cameos. It's better to have a clean break than dangling out this version without fully committing to it.

A reboot don't guarantee the right team ''Understands'' Supes tho. Eh, better to hope for the best. It is what it is.

 

[Herolee10]

So as one hero's journey ends...

A new hero's journey begins to take its place.

 

[flickchick85]

A reboot don't guarantee the right team ''Understands'' Supes tho. Eh, better to hope for the best. It is what it is.

Nothing’s guaranteed. WB just figured they’d have better odds with a clean the slate than to try to salvage what they were working with (an actor who hasn’t been a hit in the role and was now reportedly starting to play hardball). And I can’t say I disagree with them there. A fresh start in a few years doesn’t sound like a bad prospect to me at this point.

 

[Herolee10]

The problem here though is that if Warner Bros have not learned from their mistakes with their treatment of Henry's Superman then we are just going to repeat the process again with the next version.

 

[misslane38]

I don't mind waiting for a new Superman movie. I do mind rebooting/recasting. It's not even that I'm super fond of Cavill in the role. It's more that I just don't think I can suspend disbelief enough, if these new Superman and Batman characters/actors cross paths with remnants of the previous DCEU, like Diana, Arthur, and Barry.

It's not like Hulk or Spider-Man: Homecoming, because no Hulk or Spider-Man had ever interacted with the Avengers or the MCU before they crossed over. Because BvS and JL happened, with Affleck and Cavill interacting with the rest, it creates a bit of a mess. So, to potentially see Wonder Woman talking to a Batman who has a different face and maybe even backstory and personality would just be too weird to me.

I get that others wouldn't feel that way. But I would. I might be able to handle it better if whatever reboot happened kept Superman and Batman isolated in their own franchises, but that's not ideal either. I would almost rather any new Superman movie be within the elseworlds concept that is creating the Joker movie, which could allow for more experimentation, than something more mainstream.

 

[_Superman_]

I don't mind waiting for a new Superman movie. I do mind rebooting/recasting. It's not even that I'm super fond of Cavill in the role. It's more that I just don't think I can suspend disbelief enough, if these new Superman and Batman characters/actors cross paths with remnants of the previous DCEU, like Diana, Arthur, and Barry.

It's not like Hulk or Spider-Man: Homecoming, because no Hulk or Spider-Man had ever interacted with the Avengers or the MCU before they crossed over. Because BvS and JL happened, with Affleck and Cavill interacting with the rest, it creates a bit of a mess. So, to potentially see Wonder Woman talking to a Batman who has a different face and maybe even backstory and personality would just be too weird to me.

I get that others wouldn't feel that way. But I would. I might be able to handle it better if whatever reboot happened kept Superman and Batman isolated in their own franchises, but that's not ideal either. I would almost rather any new Superman movie be within the elseworlds concept that is creating the Joker movie, which could allow for more experimentation, than something more mainstream.

I completely agree.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Or they can have WW and Aquaman just never interacting with Supes and Batman again. Keep their stuff in stand alone mode. Both WW movies already doing that. HQ and her gang going through a gotham without an active Batman. Shazam was THAT movie to still give the nod to the connected universe, but the lead star priced himself out.

 

[STARMAN]

A reboot is no guarantee for success but it's better than half-heartedly dangling out one that has been mixed-received.

 

[misslane38]

Or they can have WW and Aquaman just never interacting with Supes and Batman again. Keep their stuff in stand alone mode. Both WW movies already doing that. HQ and her gang going through a gotham without an active Batman. Shazam was THAT movie to still give the nod to the connected universe, but the lead star priced himself out.

Right, which is why I said "I might be able to handle it better if whatever reboot happened kept Superman and Batman isolated in their own franchises."

A reboot is no guarantee for success but it's better than half-heartedly dangling out one that has been mixed-received.

At the moment, I'm not thinking about success. I'm thinking about my own viewing experience and what I would like to watch. Reboot, but standalone, or reboot within an elseworlds model would be better to me than reboot and crossover/integrate and act as if nothing happened. I don't really care about dangling, though. I'm not impatient for a new Superman movie, because I don't want to have one just to have one. If taking time facilitates a better approach, then I'm all for it. I can wait, especially if mixed reception is a possibility regardless.

 

[Black Narcissus]

All them Superman easter eggs in Shazam being cgi'd out for WW as we speak. lol

 

[STARMAN]

I think reboot standalone is the most likely scenario down the road. I can wait now that I know MOS 2 is not happening.

 

[Vlyse]

All them Superman easter eggs in Shazam being cgi'd out for WW as we speak. lol

I thought about this, but idk. Aquaman's continuity being after JL seems intact. Aquaman and Shazam are probably safe. Everything else from here on out not so much.

 

[misslane38]

I think reboot standalone is the most likely scenario down the road. I can wait now that I know MOS 2 is not happening.

If standalone seems likely or more workable, I think I would prefer it to be more experimental. Given the positive effects that a period setting seems to have on some films, I almost would prefer something that would reintroduce Superman in an anthology like way using the same new actors (i.e. not Cavill, Adams, etc.) in each installment. With a trickster like Mxyzptlk capable of creating the structure/mechanism for something of that sort, as he did in DC's Rebirth/Reborn (and a bit in Morrison's New 52 run), it would be cool to see Superman films set in the Golden Age (1940s), Silver Age (1960s), and the Future. I know it seems similar to Wonder Woman's current trajectory, but at least it would cover time periods her films didn't. I kind of just don't want more of the same with Superman anymore, and I think opening it up could create interesting possibilities, including using the Mxy set up an escape hatch if there was ever a desire and then need to integrate Superman into the main universe.

 

[Black Narcissus]

I thought about this, but idk. Aquaman's continuity being after JL seems intact. Aquaman and Shazam are probably safe. Everything else from here on out not so much.

A WW cameo would be cool tho. I'm far more interested in a female trinity flick at this point tho.

WW-Supergirl-Batgirl

 

[STARMAN]

If standalone seems likely or more workable, I think I would prefer it to be more experimental. Given the positive effects that a period setting seems to have on some films, I almost would prefer something that would reintroduce Superman in an anthology like way using the same new actors (i.e. not Cavill, Adams, etc.) in each installment. With a trickster like Mxyzptlk capable of creating the structure/mechanism for something of that sort, as he did in DC's Rebirth/Reborn (and a bit in Morrison's New 52 run), it would be cool to see Superman films set in the Golden Age (1940s), Silver Age (1960s), and the Future. I know it seems similar to Wonder Woman's current trajectory, but at least it would cover time periods her films didn't. I kind of just don't want more of the same with Superman anymore, and I think opening it up could create interesting possibilities, including using the Mxy set up an escape hatch if there was ever a desire and then need to integrate Superman into the main universe.

With the way things are going I can see a Superman film set in the past. I have no idea what their plans are and I don't think WB do either right now. It's best they take a deep breath and figure things out. Someone might have to come to them and pitch them on where to go next.

 

[Herolee10]

It seems like at this point, the best thing that we could hope for is getting a new standalone superman film within the next 10 years from now.

But any hope of seeing him interact with other DC heroes in a group setting on the big screen died when "Justice League" flopped.

I can truly and honestly say that in the grand scheme of things, making MOS and BvS were both mistakes and overall not worth it.

Even Superman Returns with all of its issues did not permanently damage the character like MOS and BvS did together.

When we could not see Spider-Man and the X-Men interact with the rest of the MCU at first, it was understandable because different companies owned the characters.

What excuse does DC and Warner Bros have?

 

[Black Narcissus]

Eh, I'd say MOS was the response to that sack of bore which is SR.

When the new film came it was about seeing Superman punch something in a new film. Move away from the Donner version. A complete update of krypton etc. A new Zod. SR started the domino effect thing which we seeing now. I will even blame bald Nolan. He was too caught in the ''give directors freedom'' thing to pull the strings back on Snyder. And from a studio pov, you have your goldenboy in Nolan pitching you a new Superman with him as part of the team, a writer that he trust, handpicked director, you let that team do what they want. It did not payoff. Eh.

 

[heatvision38]

I don't mind waiting for a new Superman movie. I do mind rebooting/recasting. It's not even that I'm super fond of Cavill in the role. It's more that I just don't think I can suspend disbelief enough, if these new Superman and Batman characters/actors cross paths with remnants of the previous DCEU, like Diana, Arthur, and Barry.

It's not like Hulk or Spider-Man: Homecoming, because no Hulk or Spider-Man had ever interacted with the Avengers or the MCU before they crossed over. Because BvS and JL happened, with Affleck and Cavill interacting with the rest, it creates a bit of a mess. So, to potentially see Wonder Woman talking to a Batman who has a different face and maybe even backstory and personality would just be too weird to me.

I get that others wouldn't feel that way. But I would. I might be able to handle it better if whatever reboot happened kept Superman and Batman isolated in their own franchises, but that's not ideal either. I would almost rather any new Superman movie be within the elseworlds concept that is creating the Joker movie, which could allow for more experimentation, than something more mainstream.

This is how I feel. Am I supposed to pretend that this Diana, Arthur, and Barry never had their interactions with Superman? How does that work? And since I have no idea where WB is going with this, I have very little reason to personally connect with these characters. I will still see some of these movies, but my enthusiasm is jut not there. I think it will sting a little bit when i watch Aquaman knowing what could have been.

 

[heatvision38]

All them Superman easter eggs in Shazam being cgi'd out for WW as we speak. lol

Ugh.

 

[Iceman]

A WW cameo would be cool tho. I'm far more interested in a female trinity flick at this point tho.

WW-Supergirl-Batgirl

I really think there’s a chance of that and that it would do really well if it happened.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Ugh.