BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[The Infernal]

I think the Africa scene would have been simpler if he had just knocked the guy through the wall and showed them both on the other side with the warlord knocked out on the ground. Instead they Jimmy Fallon'd him which I can see why people may think he may have killed him. Not only does he go though a sizeable wall first, but he's whisked off camera, fate unknown. I believe were supposed to conclude he wasn't killed, but I can't blame others for thinking otherwise.

 

[MadVillainy]

they really didn't give Cavill a lot to do in this.

 

[Tobias]

It does seem that way. I'm curious about what he thinks about his character's portrayal in BvS. He can't really be too candid about that in interviews considering it's part of his job to sell Snyder's take on things. I'm not saying he's disappointed in his role, but I am curious.

I think Cavill will be kept under wraps from saying anything about JL1 once it starts filming and possibly BvS.

He did say at the Jameson awards interview in early 2015 that he liked the direction WB has taking the character in. Words to that effect.

He also has said several times that the BvS Superman was not the one we know and love. Words to that effect.

So publicly he seems, to me, to he on board. Beyond that its just speculation.

 

[matt47]

they really didn't give Cavill a lot to do in this.

Sadly..no.

I love that little moment we get of him saving the girl at the day of the dead. When he is walking her to her family and he has his smile on his face, it's somehow so Superman!

 

[Tobias]

The thing about "the Donnerverse smile" is that it didn't originate there, nor was it last seen there. The reassuring smile is a superman thing, not a Donner thing.

The smile isn't the only thing missing, either. There's a whole subset of classic superman qualities that are being left out of this iteration and while I was on board initially (mainly because I assumed we were moving towards a more classical version), I'm not so complacent this time.

Supes tends to be more talkative in a lot of comics. But I'm sure there are ones where he isn't. So, I guess either way, Snyder/Terrio/Cavill could claim this version is based on the comics. I'd prefer something in the middle to be their aim. I don't want him to be a wordy, old windbag that just spouts self-important speeches at every turn, but I don't want a mute who's few lines are often those of defeat ("can't stay good, didn't see it because I wasn't looking," etc.). I'd like to see him have an easy charm, confidence, and a willingness to interact with others, which would display his joy at being superman despite its challenges. And of course, when these challenges arise, he would show other emotions accordingly.

That said, I don't hate everything they did and I can respect creative license enough to recognize that this version of superman is as valid (and perhaps even source material-based) as any other. I would just prefer something different and have surmised that a decent chuck of the audience might respond better to a more classical version as well.

Spot on. Thanks for pointing out the smile thing is not Donnerverse. Too many assume if one wants Superman to smile more in the Snyder films its a desire to mimic the Donnerverse. It is not.

There is a broad span between the Donner iteration and that of Snyder. It is not a choice between either the Donnerverse or the Snyderverse.

In part my understanding is that MOS was meant to re-popularize Superman to the GA. It seemingly did not.

To double down in BvS as they did is inexplicable to me.

Yes, the film was re-focused to Batman and away from Superman but within the Bat-centric BvS they could still have corrected the Superman portrayal - fix some of the things that did not appeal to the GA in MOS.

Like you I feel the GA will respond better to a more classic/mainstream version of Superman.

 

[MadVillainy]

Sadly..no.

I love that little moment we get of him saving the girl at the day of the dead. When he is walking her to her family and he has his smile on his face, it's somehow so Superman!

Shame

I think Cavill could be a really good Superman if they give him the chance, but it seems like theyre allergic to giving the character some charisma

 

[Jaxon]

Shame

I think Cavill could be a really good Superman if they give him the chance, but it seems like theyre allergic to giving the character some charisma

I think everyone is misunderstanding the character arc he is on and just trying to go straight to the end game with his character. This is the second act of his life, and JL1 will surely finish with him as the leader of the Justice League.

 

[The Infernal]

I think on his appearance on The Graham Norton Show he showed he can be charming imo, but BvS just didn't give him room and Man of Steel had more focus on melodrama.

 

[Flint Marko]

This is a Superman who has killed only in the most extreme cases (Zod about to kill a whole family after Superman pleaded with him to stop and pledged to kill off all humanity, and Zodsday, who would've finished the job his previous incarnation started).

And you're reaching now with the bolded part.

A gun to Lois' head isn't extreme? How do you know he only kills when it's needed? What has been presented in these movies that would make you think that?
And I'm not reaching, the movie is extremely vague about this. I would argue the only ones "reaching" here are the ones who are bending over backwards to assume Superman hugged the guy to safety through the two walls he smashed him through at 100+ mph.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think everyone is misunderstanding the character arc he is on and just trying to go straight to the end game with his character. This is the second act of his life, and JL1 will surely finish with him as the leader of the Justice League.

But what does that have to do with him acting wooden. Both in costume and out.

Cavill is a charming guy. Not even in interviews but in Man from Uncle and The Tudors. They just dont give him emotions in here until those last 20-30 mins

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Spot on. Thanks for pointing out the smile thing is not Donnerverse. Too many assume if one wants Superman to smile more in the Snyder films its a desire to mimic the Donnerverse. It is not.

There is a broad span between the Donner iteration and that of Snyder. It is not a choice between either the Donnerverse or the Snyderverse.

In part my understanding is that MOS was meant to re-popularize Superman to the GA. It seemingly did not.

To double down in BvS as they did is inexplicable to me.

Yes, the film was re-focused to Batman and away from Superman but within the Bat-centric BvS they could still have corrected the Superman portrayal - fix some of the things that did not appeal to the GA in MOS.

Like you I feel the GA will respond better to a more classic/mainstream version of Superman.

While occasionally I do get swept up in despair reason ultimately prevails. I really don't see it as Snyder doubling down in stoicism. Superman is genuinely distraught that he's saving people and instead of giving them Hope they respond with anger and fear. I see this as being a legitimate character arc. Superman will win the people over. Arguably, he already has with his sacrifice. I look at it as Snyder sticking to his guns and putting Clark/Kal-El through a journey and at the end of that crucible Superman will emerge.

I will say that the time for Clark/Kal-El "finding himself " and by extension "finding the good in humanity" has reached it's climax with his sacrifice. Now it's time for him to become the Superman that inspires people to be their better selves. And not as a messianic figure, but as one of those people himself.

Just my two cents.

 

[lukebrodyg]

I think everyone is misunderstanding the character arc he is on and just trying to go straight to the end game with his character. This is the second act of his life, and JL1 will surely finish with him as the leader of the Justice League.

Agreed 100%.

On that note, I think most are misunderstanding both his and Batman's arcs in this movie.

 

[HELLilac]

I think everyone is misunderstanding the character arc he is on and just trying to go straight to the end game with his character. This is the second act of his life, and JL1 will surely finish with him as the leader of the Justice League.

I've said this a few time. I don't mind his character arc if I know for sure there's a huge payoff at the end of the tunnel. I'm worried that we would get stuck with this underdeveloped Superman because WB and Snyder seem to put their priority elsewhere.

I think on his appearance on The Graham Norton Show he showed he can be charming imo, but BvS just didn't give him room and Man of Steel had more focus on melodrama.

OMG You had to watch GNS to come up with that conclusion? Of course of he can be charming. He shows plenty of charm outside of his role. It annoyed me when people criticised Cavill's Superman for the lack of charm and charisma and just assumed it's the actor himself who's incapable of showing them.

 

[Tobias]

While occasionally I do get swept up in despair reason ultimately prevails. I really don't see it as Snyder doubling down in stoicism. Superman is genuinely distraught that he's saving people and instead of giving them Hope they respond with anger and fear. I see this as being a legitimate character arc. Superman will win the people over. Arguably, he already has with his sacrifice. I look at it as Snyder sticking to his guns and putting Clark/Kal-El through a journey and at the end of that crucible Superman will emerge.

I will say that the time for Clark/Kal-El "finding himself " and by extension "finding the good in humanity" has reached it's climax with his sacrifice. Now it's time for him to become the Superman that inspires people to be their better selves. And not as a messianic figure, but as one of those people himself.

Just my two cents.

Some think Snyder has this grand vision of an arc for Superman.

But Snyder's own words cast a lot of doubt on that IMO.

When he talks about who knows what Superman will be when he comes back red flags go up for me.

http://collider.com/batman-v-superman-ending-justice-league/

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Agreed 100%.

On that note, I think most are misunderstanding both his and Batman's arcs in this movie.

Doesn't help if you can't hear what Batman and Alfred are saying. Been to three different cinemas and the score does drown out some of the dialogue.

If "Beautiful Lie" and "New Rules?" aren't heard you don't understand why Bruce is acting the way he is in BvS.

 

[lukebrodyg]

Doesn't help if you can't hear what Batman and Alfred are saying. Been to three different cinemas and the score does drown out some of the dialogue.

If "Beautiful Lie" and "New Rules?" aren't heard you don't understand why Bruce is acting the way he is in BvS.

That's a bummer but that must be a theatre(s) issue I would imagine since that's the first I've heard of it.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Some think Snyder has this grand vision of an arc for Superman.

But Snyder's own words cast a lot of doubt on that IMO.

When he talks about who knows what Superman will be when he comes back red flags go up for me.

http://collider.com/batman-v-superman-ending-justice-league/

Have you watched his interviews? He has trouble articulating. In general. He's not trying to be a "cool dude-bro" *****e. One of the written interviews mentions that he's dyslexic. That's why he comes off the way he does.

 

[Tobias]

Have you watched his interviews? He has trouble articulating. In general. He's not trying to be a "cool dude-bro" *****e. One of the written interviews mentions that he's dyslexic. That's why he comes off the way he does.

I have seen his interviews. He does not think things out before expressing the. If what you heard is true maybe that is a part of the reason.

Still, his line about getting Superman out of the way is just maddening.

 

[HELLilac]

Have you watched his interviews? He has trouble articulating. In general. He's not trying to be a "cool dude-bro" *****e. One of the written interviews mentions that he's dyslexic. That's why he comes off the way he does.

He made his point pretty clear though.

“I’m gonna say this: the second you do the first part of it, the death and resurrection are the same thing in a weird way. You have to know. The reason I wanted to do it the way we did it is because I don’t want the audience completely off the hook with it. They still have to go like, ‘What the ****? Are you kidding me?’. There’s a way to signal towards a more definitive resurrection concept, but I didn’t wanna do that because I want that to be real for them when they see it, I want the experience to be real and then the sort of need to be real later on. Suffice it to say there is a plan, but that’s gonna be—you need to wait and see.”

If Supes is to come back the way he SHOULD, like the triumphant return we all hope to see, there won't be that WTF moment. His interview makes it clear that he's going to defy expectation. He knows what we want, he just think it's fun and more interesting to NOT giving us that.

And WB just go along with it because he isn't Batman.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

He made his point pretty clear though.

If Supes is to come back the way he SHOULD, like the triumphant return we all hope to see, there won't be that WTF moment. His interview makes it clear that he's going to defy expectation. He knows what we want, he just think it's fun and more interesting to NOT giving us that.

And WB just go along with it because he isn't Batman.

I think the "WTF are you kidding me?" comment is more about the DoS in BvS than how they'll develop him in JL.

 

[Rapunzel]

^but I think the WTF is killing Supes. Not his return.

Edit: BlueLantern beat me to it.

 

[Tobias]

But what does that have to do with him acting wooden. Both in costume and out.

Cavill is a charming guy. Not even in interviews but in Man from Uncle and The Tudors. They just dont give him emotions in here until those last 20-30 mins

The Cavill in interviews, in UNCLE, the Tudors is just so much more engaging and charming than he is in Superman.

The one thing I've come up with, nothing else explains it for me - is the Cavill/Snyder dynamic or lack thereof.

Some critics are saying Cavill was wooden or not especially good in BvS'.

Yet, Cavill was praised for his comic verve, charm and line delivery (timing) in UNCLE.

The difference? Ritchie directed UNCLE.

It may be that Cavill and Snyder don't mesh as actor/director? Who knows.

 

[HELLilac]

I think the "WTF are you kidding me?" comment is more about the DoS in BvS than how they'll develop him in JL.

^but I think the WTF is killing Supes. Not his return.

Edit: BlueLantern beat me to it.

Really? I think he's done talking about the "killing part" and already moved on to the "resurrection" part at that point. He even added how he didn't want to go towards a more definitive resurrection concept.

But if both of you read it the same way then I'm more than happy to be wrong.

 

[BH/HHH]

He's clearly on about the killing part there not resurrection

 

[Tony Gunk]

This "you don't understand his arc" stuff is insulting

We're Superman fans, we don't want two films of this nonsense, he should become SUPERMAN in the first film, 3 films to establish a character is complete garbage, especially when you consider that he won't be in the third film from start to finish.

Man of Tomorrow made a great point. The chat with Swanwick, the "welcome to the planet" and big smile in MOS was all for nothing.