BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - - - - - - - - - - - Part 25

[Tony Gunk]

Do people realise you can have your film not be completely joyless without simply making it a Marvel film? It seems very lazy to just wheel out the "leave that to Marvel" line every time someone suggests some lighter moments be shown in the films.

Superman was short changed in this film, and so were many of us Superman fans. The guy was a plot device for Snyder's shiny new toys to...well.....shine.

I'm re-reading Birthright at the moment, I know the film makers took some influence from this on MOS (particularly in the Kryptonian origin part), but I'll tell you what, it's a shame they didn't take even more influence with regards to the way Superman actually carries himself.

 

[Jaxon]

This post doesn't make sense and I am surprised I am the only one speaking regarding this, so your saying we are never meant to understand Supermans perspective in the movie? Because if we did we would have a problem with Batman killing him?

If Superman announces to the world that he's here to help humanity in any way he can how does Batman then keep going after him? Part of Batman's convincing himself to destroy Superman is that the world doesn't know Superman's intentions. If Superman explains them then Batman's premise is done.

 

[Light]

If Superman announces to the world that he's here to help humanity in any way he can how does Batman then keep going after him? Part of Batman's convincing himself to destroy Superman is that the world doesn't know Superman's intentions. If Superman explains them then Batman's premise is done.

How about having a dubious and sceptical Batman? How many times has Superman stated his intentions in the comics and Lex still isn't convinced as well as Batmab who is always weary in case Superman turns rogue. The same thing can be applied here then eventually you have Batman realise Superman is actually what he seems and boom Superman has earned his trust. This isn't rocket science and surely guys getting the type of money they are getting can come up with a multitude of scenarios in which things could play out between Superman and Batman.

 

[Tony Gunk]

If Superman announces to the world that he's here to help humanity in any way he can how does Batman then keep going after him? Part of Batman's convincing himself to destroy Superman is that the world doesn't know Superman's intentions. If Superman explains them then Batman's premise is done.

 

[Jaxon]

How about having a dubious and sceptical Batman? How many times has Superman stated his intentions in the comics and Lex still isn't convinced as well as Batmab who is always weary in case Superman turns rogue. The same thing can be applied here then eventually you have Batman realise Superman is actually what he seems and boom Superman has earned his trust. This isn't rocket science and surely guys getting the type of money they are getting can come up with a multitude of scenarios in which things could play out between Superman and Batman.

I think that'd play Batman into the corner as a villain so you really can't go that route. It was already a difficult sell as it was and the movie had to spend a lot of time on Batman to convince the audience that he would want to end Superman. Putting that hurdle in front of him as well doesn't work.

Superman by his actions showed everyone his position "this is my world"

 

[Light]

I think that'd play Batman into the corner as a villain so you really can't go that route. It was already a difficult sell as it was and the movie had to spend a lot of time on Batman to convince the audience that he would want to end Superman. Putting that hurdle in front of him as well doesn't work.

Superman by his actions showed everyone his position "this is my world"

How about equilibrium, show both characters POV and highlight where they are coming from. This way no one is the villian and it's a battle of ideals and beliefs. With all due respect a majority of things you have stated doesn't make sense and just sounds like an excuse to gloss over the apparent flaws in the story.

 

[MadVillainy]

I'm so disappointed that they didn't use this scene in BvS or MoS

 

[Baneis8feettall]

In all fairness, while Snyder does shoulder some of the blame for this negative reception, he should not be the only one. When Superman Returns didn't resonate with the fans the Studio and the producers started throwing around the terms of Superman being an angry god and that they wanted to go dark like the Nolan films as the character would allow. I believe that Superman is a character that can go to dark places but he himself should be the light in that darkness. A real beacon of hope and an inspiration for others to follow. Superman on screen has had its fair share of problems even before Snyder. Superman the movie probably presented the world with the most earnest and optimistic Superman but even that Superman didn't do everything right. The moment we as fans wanted a more relatable Superman was the moment the character started losing his way. The character has been rebooted in the comics over the course of his history due to the changes in society and how we as readers viewed him. Some thought he was irrelevant and didn't line up with the times. I don't envy DC or WB's when it comes to presenting Superman on screen or in the printed page. Whatever they do will annoy one group and satisfy another. Perhaps the answer lies in presenting a character that does what he does not because he wants the accolades of the world but he does the job because no one else can. Superman has a genuine love for humanity and his adopted planet and it would be nice to see this more. I do think given the right script Henry Cavill can and will do a fantastic job in bringing Superman to the big screen for this generation. We have only seen little glimpses of his potential.

I want a new superman movie with Cavill...but not the way MOS & BvS was.

We are in an age trolls,orcs and elfs, kaijus, superheroes, aliens and apes on horses happen regularly.

People won't fall in love with what he can do... but they might if they tell us who he is.

It's studios fault true but they might need an influential director to show them the path.

If studio think lack of humor or serious/darker material is the problem with these movies, we are in trouble.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

How about having a dubious and sceptical Batman? How many times has Superman stated his intentions in the comics and Lex still isn't convinced as well as Batmab who is always weary in case Superman turns rogue. The same thing can be applied here then eventually you have Batman realise Superman is actually what he seems and boom Superman has earned his trust. This isn't rocket science and surely guys getting the type of money they are getting can come up with a multitude of scenarios in which things could play out between Superman and Batman.

Batman is Snyder's new toy. BvS had to be a redemption story for him so the "Michael Jordan of superheroes" (Snyder's own words) was reduced to a plot device. I don't like it, but depending on how Superman returns I can accept it.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I want a new superman movie with Cavill...but not the way MOS & BvS was.

We are in an age trolls,orcs and elfs, kaijus, superheroes, aliens and apes on horses happen regularly.

People won't fall in love with what he can do... but they might if they tell us who he is.

It's studios fault true but they might need an influential director to show them the path.

If studio think lack of humor or serious/darker material is the problem with these movies, we are in trouble.

Yes, to the bolded. Superman without Clark Kent is Dr. Manhattan and those comparisons actually become justified. All WB has to do is look at how many times Superman was copied and subverted by Marvel, other companies, as well as DC themselves to see how valuable the character truly is. Yet all those carbon copies will never have as much staying power, popularity or iconography. Why? Because they lack soul. They aren't mild mannered reporter Clark Kent and all the crap he has to deal with when he isn't saving the world.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Just to be clear, I love the MCU, for what it is, popcorn. The issue I have with it is there's no stakes in it. Nobody is ever going to die, not for good. Even Cap may die in Civil War but he be brought back by the Infinity Gauntlet.

Well Superman is going to be back in the next movie, so by your rationale it was pointless, right?

. Seriously I can't believe anyone is complaining about Jimmy Olsen dying because it raises the stakes.

If a major character dies to drive the story forward people will accept it. If a major character is killed on a lark, because the director thought it'd be a fun thing to do and he couldn't as using the character for anything that doesnt raise the stakes. Jimmy did nothing and then died, how does that raise anything? The audience didn't even know it was him.

I like the DCEU tackling difficult themes, and I applaud the creative team for the risks they are taking because they are driving this genre forward.

They aren't tackling anything, and only a successful movie will drive a genre. Do you really see Marvel watching these Bo returns and thinking "oh we really gotta tone our style down"?

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

If Superman announces to the world that he's here to help humanity in any way he can how does Batman then keep going after him? Part of Batman's convincing himself to destroy Superman is that the world doesn't know Superman's intentions. If Superman explains them then Batman's premise is done.

That shows you how empty his premise was, doesn't it ? Do you not see Tony's point that Superman wasn't a character, he was a plot device ?

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

I think that'd play Batman into the corner as a villain so you really can't go that route. It was already a difficult sell as it was and the movie had to spend a lot of time on Batman to convince the audience that he would want to end Superman. Putting that hurdle in front of him as well doesn't work.

Superman by his actions showed everyone his position "this is my world"

Why do you act as if the premise of Batman vs Superman was forced onto Snyder and not one he picked? If he wanted to pay equal respect to both characters he could've picked a different premise that would allow both to shine. He didn't.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Well that's settled.

 

[sf2]

If Superman announces to the world that he's here to help humanity in any way he can how does Batman then keep going after him? Part of Batman's convincing himself to destroy Superman is that the world doesn't know Superman's intentions. If Superman explains them then Batman's premise is done.

I wonder do u really watch the movie...
Listen to the dialogue between bruce n Alfred.
How many good guys left
How many can keep the promise...
Even there is 1%...
Not now... but the future?

Oh gods... do u have mind block watching the movie? Another brainwashed.

 

[Mad Ones]

I'm so disappointed that they didn't use this scene in BvS or MoS

Spoiler

Where's this from?

 

[Loki882]

Just because Superman CLAIMS that he's here to help, doesn't mean that Batman HAS to believe him. Batman tends to be paranoid, suspicious, and cynical by nature after all. He assumes the worst until proven otherwise.

And Jimmy dying doesn't raise the stakes because he's not even onscreen even five minutes, he's not even named in the movie (so you cannot even use name value in that regard), because of this the audience has zero emotional investment in him or reason to care when he dies, and his death is irrelevant to the rest of the film.

Basically it feels like a poor attempt at cheap shock value (and Snyder has all but admitted that it was just that).

 

[MadVillainy]

Where's this from?

Superman: Birthright.

A very good origin for Superman that I wish they wouldve drawn from

 

[sf2]

I think this movie is so powerful n reflected well in our world. We have really made our perception no matter what we see. Superman saving the people... but some see him as destroying the properties. That's how great the movie is.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah no, not at all.

 

[sf2]

Yeah yes. He saved one life. But you guys/ people saw he failed to save the other lives. N so pissed off. Just perfect like in the movie.

 

[The Guard]

So I watched WATCHMEN today.

Dr. Manhattan this version of Superman is not. Several key differences.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Killing off Supes in this movie was so pointless to me, it carried no real emotional weight that it should have. He needed at least another solo movie before this one where we get to know him more and see him living his life.

 

[MrsKent26]

Superman definitely wasn't at Dr. Manhattan levels, but he was decidedly less personable than the average supes. He's basically the same awkward drifter that likes to do good deeds we met in MOS. Which is not terrible, but is also not as good as seeing him grow permanently into the supes we saw in scenes like "Don't play games with me, General..."

 

[Tra-El]

I like how one reviewer put it how in BvS, Clark is still in the middle of his origin story. BvS is Man of Steel 1.5 in a way when it comes to Superman's arc, especially givin' that the world around him hasn't settled on their issues with him yet. I expect the classic Superman, in personality, to start shining through sooner than later.