BvS Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 3

[Man.of.Tomorrow]

I am praying for this...truly I am. However, history is not Superman's side when it comes to outshining Batman. The only glimmer of hope I have is that Goyer and Snyder have both said they will not do this.

Oh really? When/what did they say about this?

Cos that's my fear - I am beyond pysched that we are clearly going to get a proper JL movie soon, and also to see Wonder Woman and Batman together with Superman on screen - I just feel like it might be too much for one film.

This IS a sequel to MoS, whatever people say, so it will pick up 'roughly' where that left off - and SO MUCH happened in MoS that I find it hard to believe this movie will entirely work (though obviously I am, and will remain, very, very hopeful...!)

The thing is, in MoS the whole idea of this Superman seemed so novel, that you'd imagine in the next movie everyone would still be getting their head around this superhuman alien who is living among them - and now we're bringing in another one? And Batman....?

I just... I dunno! I dunno!

Reassurance welcome...

 

[charl_huntress]

Oh really? When/what did they say about this?

Cos that's my fear - I am beyond pysched that we are clearly going to get a proper JL movie soon, and also to see Wonder Woman and Batman together with Superman on screen - I just feel like it might be too much for one film.

This IS a sequel to MoS, whatever people say, so it will pick up 'roughly' where that left off - and SO MUCH happened in MoS that I find it hard to believe this movie will entirely work (though obviously I am, and will remain, very, very hopeful...!)

The thing is, in MoS the whole idea of this Superman seemed so novel, that you'd imagine in the next movie everyone would still be getting their head around this superhuman alien who is living among them - and now we're bringing in another one? And Batman....?

I just... I dunno! I dunno!

Reassurance welcome...

Haha...I don't know if I can properly reassure you, but I'll give you the reassurance that was given to me.

Does this sound like a guy who favors Batman over Superman?
"Most comic book purists would say Batman," Goyer believes, "even though it makes no sense whatsoever! Batman is the ultmate strategist, but if Superman just flicked his finger Batman would be done for. But you'll have to watch the film in a year and a half, whenever it comes out, to see what happens..."

Also there is clip from a comic con panel where Snyder answers the question of who would win in a fight between Supes and Bats. He says Supes with no hesitation. I can't find that one though.

 

[Man.of.Tomorrow]

Haha...I don't know if I can properly reassure you, but I'll give you the reassurance that was given to me. Also there is clip from a comic con panel where Snyder answers the question of who would win in a fight between Supes and Bats. He says Supes with no hesitation. I can't find that one though.

Ah thanks - yeah I definitely remember the comic con Q&A about that... Didn't Snyder and Cavill look at each other like, 'whaaaat?!' when it was asked?! It IS is a stupid question, however much you might like him, Batman has no chance, come on!

Yeah I guess its screen time I'm worried about - I really thought Cav-El was the best superman we could have asked for for this era, the only niggle I had was I felt he wasn't quite given ENOUGH - and I mean enough everything, enough screen time, enough dialogue, enough chances to do the usual Superman things - and now he has to share his screen time with WW AND Batman I feel like this could be an even bigger issue in this second film.

Who knows though - I will try to remain hopeful...

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Also there is clip from a comic con panel where Snyder answers the question of who would win in a fight between Supes and Bats. He says Supes with no hesitation. I can't find that one though.

[YT]watch?v=2L8q7dY2MnU[/YT]

 

[BatLobster]

That comment is pretty much rendered irrelevant by mere virtue of Snyder making this movie. The whole "Superman can just kill Batman with the flick of his finger" thing is a total moot point when it comes to putting them in the same story. Because:

A. Just because Superman CAN do that doesn't mean he would.

and

B. It's a more interesting that way. Superman wouldn't want to kill Bruce and would have to hold himself back, while Bruce would be doing everything in his power to find an equalizer.

Storytellers are going to want to tell an interesting story and explore the gray areas of their struggle, not just deliver a 2 second answer to "who would win?".

Snyder was just playing the role of a Superman fanboy there (not that he isn't).

 

[charl_huntress]

Yeah I guess its screen time I'm worried about - I really thought Cav-El was the best superman we could have asked for for this era, the only niggle I had was I felt he wasn't quite given ENOUGH - and I mean enough everything, enough screen time, enough dialogue, enough chances to do the usual Superman things - and now he has to share his screen time with WW AND Batman I feel like this could be an even bigger issue in this second film. Who knows though - I will try to remain hopeful...

That's all any of us can do. I am worried about that too. I won't lie. I'm actually not hopeful because I've seen it done to too many times. I'm with you though. I'd like to see them give Cavill more of everything in this next movie. He is not a bad actor and he did great with the material he was given in MOS. I want them to give him more, and let him have a chance to really have fun with the role. He OWNS it now. Let him take it out for a test spin.

Snyder was just playing the role of a Superman fanboy there (not that he isn't).

*shrugs* We'll see. I pointed out the clip because it does show him being a Superman fanboy. I'm not sure if he really is though. We'll see.

 

[John-An]

I really don't understand some guys claiming for that much dialoge, wanting a joke-making, flamboyance taking as "charisma" from Superman which is totally wrong. In the movie that is focusing a troubled, lonely finding a place in the world, novice Clark that is stablishing on Earth with that type of issues he had in his background. and in that aspect the script did a good job.
Superman has never been a joke-making and a flamboyance character. I mean not every character has to be as "charismatic" as Tony Stark.

Cavill nailed the role the movie planted pretty great. his scenes were pretty viable and natural.
If a character has problems that makes the character more relatable and viable (something that most of the MCU lacked and replaced with funny things) and this version of Superman did that great and showed us a great potential to future sequels.

Obviously I'm with you that the new movie needs a lot of dialogue cause we already saw the troubled Clark and we need to be the other side of Superman: Daily Planet Clark Kent, Bruce-Clark, Clark-Lois Martha-Clark more developed seeing the stablished Superman. For this movie the writers need to develope those things from the characters.

 

[charl_huntress]

I'm still a little unsure of the direction this Superman will go. The themes in MOS can go in a lot of different directions IMO. I just want them to let Cavill have a go at it. Trust him to do right with the character and trust his instincts. I think he deserves that trust now.

 

[MrsKent26]

^ Me too. He knows this character.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I'm still a little unsure of the direction this Superman will go. The themes in MOS can go in a lot of different directions IMO. I just want them to let Cavill have a go at it. Trust him to do right with the character and trust his instincts. I think he deserves that trust now.

Honestly, if Cavill rewrote his role, it would probably be closer to the comics than what we got.

Heck, it would probably be wittier if he add-libbed half his lines, RDJ style

Thankfully we have Chris Terrio to fix the damage in Goyer or Snyder's wake

 

[MrsKent26]

The thought of Terrio writing better (and more) lines for Cavill gets me hyped.

 

[Jekecy]

These last few pages are a bit baffling to read. At what point did anyone suggest flamboyancy or slapstick humor? Human emotions do not exist in extremes.

It doesn't take much imagination to see how some people could perceive this Superman as being far more somber than the character they read in the books. It doesn't mean they want a complete 180 cheesefest in the sequel. Common sense, guys.

 

[MrsKent26]

^ I don't know about the other posters, but my initial post was in reaction to that "Waah, wahh. Why can't Cavill have charisma like Hemsworth!" post. That's a classic example of people comparing a comedic role and a dramatic role and declaring the actor in the dramatic role isn't charismatic. The roles are very different.

Plus, I'll admit I'm rather sensitive to comments that suggest DC go the Marvel route on anything. And Yes, there are reasonable humans that just want something a bit different from current DC, by there's also people who just want to Marvelize the crap outta everything. I don't want that at all and the notion revolts me a bit. Hence, the reaction. But I know not everyone is like that.

Apologies if I was too defensive.

 

[Nemeres]

I really don't understand some guys claiming for that much dialoge, wanting a joke-making, flamboyance taking as "charisma" from Superman which is totally wrong. In the movie that is focusing a troubled, lonely finding a place in the world, novice Clark that is stablishing on Earth with that type of issues he had in his background. and in that aspect the script did a good job.
Superman has never been a joke-making and a flamboyance character. I mean not every character has to be as "charismatic" as Tony Stark.

Cavill nailed the role the movie planted pretty great. his scenes were pretty viable and natural.
If a character has problems that makes the character more relatable and viable (something that most of the MCU lacked and replaced with funny things) and this version of Superman did that great and showed us a great potential to future sequels.

Obviously I'm with you that the new movie needs a lot of dialogue cause we already saw the troubled Clark and we need to be the other side of Superman: Daily Planet Clark Kent, Bruce-Clark, Clark-Lois Martha-Clark more developed seeing the stablished Superman. For this movie the writers need to develope those things from the characters.

So... no charm whatsoever, then? Couldn't agree less. Tony Stark is not the end-all be-all of charisma possibilities, there's a whole world in between, and I don't see why Superman has to be at the bottom of the spectrum... as if that were his only possibility. Yes, I'd LOVE some jokes, I'd LOVE some wit and I'd LOVE some semblance of an intelligent personality. Even troubled people have different sides to them other than a mopey face. When Alan Grant pulls that electrocution joke on the kids in Jurassic Park... that had a HUGE effect on me as a kid. That little moment of charisma alone was the main reason I wanted an action figure of the guy. I can only imagine the difference it would have on young kids to see Superman be the cool guy for a change... something he hasn't been on a broad scale since the Chris Reeve days, I'm sad to say. I probably can't count on Goyer for that, but I'm hoping Terrio can do something about it.

 

[Nemeres]

^ I don't know about the other posters, but my initial post was in reaction to that "Waah, wahh. Why can't Cavill have charisma like Hemsworth!" post. That's a classic example of people comparing a comedic role and a dramatic role and declaring the actor in the dramatic role isn't charismatic. The roles are very different.

Plus, I'll admit I'm rather sensitive to comments that suggest DC go the Marvel route on anything. And Yes, there are reasonable humans that just want something a bit different from current DC, by there's also people who just want to Marvelize the crap outta everything. I don't want that at all and the notion revolts me a bit. Hence, the reaction. But I know not everyone is like that.

Apologies if I was too defensive.

You're saying Thor was a comedic role?

 

[lc23]

^ I don't know about the other posters, but my initial post was in reaction to that "Waah, wahh. Why can't Cavill have charisma like Hemsworth!" post. That's a classic example of people comparing a comedic role and a dramatic role and declaring the actor in the dramatic role isn't charismatic. The roles are very different.

Plus, I'll admit I'm rather sensitive to comments that suggest DC go the Marvel route on anything. And Yes, there are reasonable humans that just want something a bit different from current DC, by there's also people who just want to Marvelize the crap outta everything. I don't want that at all and the notion revolts me a bit. Hence, the reaction. But I know not everyone is like that.

Apologies if I was too defensive.

This exact thing right here, except no apologies from me.

 

[MrsKent26]

You're saying Thor was a comedic role?

It's more light and comedic than Cavill's Superman role. That's what I mean.

 

[Jekecy]

So... no charm whatsoever, then? Couldn't agree less. Tony Stark is not the end-all be-all of charisma possibilities, there's a whole world in between, and I don't see why Superman has to be at the bottom of the spectrum... as if that were his only possibility. Yes, I'd LOVE some jokes, I'd LOVE some wit and I'd LOVE some semblance of an intelligent personality. Even troubled people have different sides to them other than a mopey face. When Alan Grant pulls that electrocution joke on the kids in Jurassic Park... that had a HUGE effect on me as a kid. That little moment of charisma alone was the main reason I wanted an action figure of the guy. I can only imagine the difference it would have on young kids to see Superman be the cool guy for a change... something he hasn't been on a broad scale since the Chris Reeve days, I'm sad to say. I probably can't count on Goyer for that, but I'm hoping Terrio can do something about it.

He wasn't a great Supes, but Dean Cain was absolutely phenomenal as Clark. If anyone wants a reference point for a more balanced and generally pleasant person to be around, his performance in that show is as good as it gets. There's no scene chewery with him. But he absolutely oozes charm and you just can't help but smile when he's on the screen. To this day it stands as a great modern take on the classic mild-mannered persona.

Cavill can easily get to that point. Now that we've dealt with his rough childhood and wandering adulthood, hopefully we'll see Clark grow and actually live out his life as a new person. He's got the looks, the smile, and the personality. That needs to be utilized.

 

[charl_huntress]

He wasn't a great Supes, but Dean Cain was absolutely phenomenal as Clark. If anyone wants a reference point for a more balanced and generally pleasant person to be around, his performance in that show is as good as it gets. There's no scene chewery with him. But he absolutely oozes charm and you just can't help but smile when he's on the screen. To this day it stands as a great modern take on the classic mild-mannered persona.

Cavill can easily get to that point. Now that we've dealt with his rough childhood and wandering adulthood, hopefully we'll see Clark grow and actually live out his life as a new person. He's got the looks, the smile, and the personality. That needs to be utilized.

Someone who finally recognizes the brilliance of Cain. Yes, he's not the best Superman, but his Clark is absolutely superb and a great reference point for Cavill's Clark.

The interesting thing is Cavill has to embody charisma for Clark and Superman. I think he's got a good handle on Clark already, and once we see more of Clark at the DP then I think we will be pleasantly surprised.

The one area I'm concerned about is charisma for Superman. I don't want him flying around flashing C. Reeve winks while saying hookey lines like, "I'll save you, Lois!" NO...NO...and NO. They have to make him charismatic while still keeping true to core things we like about the character. In addition, he has to share the scene with Batman. I mean share it...not just be there with Batman while he's saying all the cool lines.

 

[MrsKent26]

^ I can see Cavill being a Cainish Clark. Just perhaps a bit more reserved and quiet.

 

[MydnightPhoenix]

I didn't care for Chris in Thor, I liked him much more in Avengers, then again I feel Thor is a shallow juvenile film.
I think MOS could have done with a better writer and director. I feel Henry has great facial expressions but clearly many people want him to say more. I never want him to be anything like Christopher's Superman because his Supes lived in a fake make believe world.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I've said this before, but I really want Supes to have the curl in his hair this time.

 

[John-An]

So... no charm whatsoever, then? Couldn't agree less. Tony Stark is not the end-all be-all of charisma possibilities, there's a whole world in between, and I don't see why Superman has to be at the bottom of the spectrum... as if that were his only possibility. Yes, I'd LOVE some jokes, I'd LOVE some wit and I'd LOVE some semblance of an intelligent personality. Even troubled people have different sides to them other than a mopey face. When Alan Grant pulls that electrocution joke on the kids in Jurassic Park... that had a HUGE effect on me as a kid. That little moment of charisma alone was the main reason I wanted an action figure of the guy. I can only imagine the difference it would have on young kids to see Superman be the cool guy for a change... something he hasn't been on a broad scale since the Chris Reeve days, I'm sad to say. I probably can't count on Goyer for that, but I'm hoping Terrio can do something about it.

Man, 2 or 3 jokes are fine but in this movie (MOS) didn't need jokes cause you know the drama will be taken away (as in some parts from the Avengers). Reeve's Supes was unforgettable but I'm prepared for a change because you know in this days some things that Superman had would not fit.
Cavill had charisma eventhought he didn't play a "funny" role. He was a charismatic being at the role he was playing. The badass Superman, the lost Clark finding his place.
We can't compare now to Reeve cause this Superman hasn't been shown stablished. We saw the REAL CLARK/Kal. WE NEED TO SEE THE DP Clark, Superman interacting with people. That's what I hope we see in the next movie and will give us the true potential of Cavill and if he owns the Superman role 100%.

 

[MrsKent26]

I've said this before, but I really want Supes to have the curl in his hair this time.

I wouldn't mind it either since we finally have a Superman with naturally curly hair. Cavill could pull it off without it looking Routhy.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I wouldn't mind it either since we finally have a Superman with naturally curly hair. Cavill could pull it off without it looking Routhy.

Well, Cavill's practically been having a silent campaign for the curl with the way he's had his hair the past year. He's been friggin taunting us with that curl.