Henry Cavill Out as Superman Amid Warner Bros.' DC Universe Shake-Up

[Iceman]

Hopefully these shows are popular (Doom Patrol and Titans) and get people more excited about Cyborg.

 

[Micromind]

Isn't it a director's job to tell the actors what he wants and change it if it's not working either because it looks silly, or because actor's acting skill is not just there to get it done satisfactorily, also a director is required to review the dailies (or rushes) and re-shoot them if needed while the main shooting is going on.

I guess Whedon (or was it Snyder) OK'ed the scene and the director never thought that fanboys would have major issue with it, so much so that they cannot let it go even after a year has passed, this too in a movie that was filled with 100 different things that were awful, I guess this stands out the most to some.

Personally speaking, I thought Gal did alright as the scene required WW to stop Kal El from using heat-vision and at the same time express her disapproval and alarm while saying those lines of dialogue. But Whedon could have changed those lines and done it a bit differently, if it was not looking good.

 

[Boom]

I guess Whedon (or was it Snyder) OK'ed the scene and the director never thought that fanboys would have major issue with it, so much so that they cannot let it go even after a year has passed, this too in a movie that was filled with 100 different things that were awful, I guess this stands out the most to some.

Okay?

 

[metaphysician]

Randomly, here's my plot outline for a soft reboot Superman movie:

Metropolis, having been fully rebuilt ( use this as an opportunity to make any stylistic mods to the city's appearance ), is now afflicted with attacks by mysterious superhumans of unknown origin. Superman saves the day from these attacks, wherein the individuals seem to be engaged in unusual thefts, and have powers enough to be. . . well, mostly unstoppable by the police, but just enough to make for interesting fights with Superman but lose. However, even in custody they don't explain themselves, and several of them are busted out later or just mysteriously vanish. Thus, a mystery, which is investigated by Clark and Lois. Following this mystery on the scientific side ( which lets us introduce either a soft-rebooted Professor Hamilton, or an analogous replacement in the "science ally" role ) reveals that they are humans who have been modified with pieces of alien DNA.

Eventually, Lois manages to gain significant progress in the investigation ( because she's the better investigator of the two, and less distracted by the need to put on a cape ), and runs across a secret organization operating in Metropolis: Project Cadmus. On the surface its a sketchy government operation studying alien biology, and Lois finds evidence that they've been doing some rather more unethical experiments. She gets captured in the process, and discovers that the leadership of this operation have gone rogue, using their enslaved science experiments the DNAliens to acquire necessary materials to advance their work. In terms of motive, Director Westfield is a Luthor-sympathetic paranoid about aliens, and wants to have the necessary weapons to kill them "when" the war starts tomorrow. Dr Donovan, by contrast, loves aliens, and just wants more samples to study and work upon to create newer and better creations.

Ultimately, Lois gets word out in time, thanks to the help of sympathetic members of Cadmus who didn't sign up for vivisections or waging a war on Superman, and Superman shows up to save the day. He is confronted first by the collected DNAliens, who he "defeats" quite quickly because he has figured out how they are being controlled, and disrupts that control post-haste ( blows up the transmitter for their leash implants? Something like that ). He then has a harder time on his hands, as Donovan unleashes their secret weapon they've been developing, which is basically Bizarro: an imperfect, imperfectly controllable clone of Superman. This is a tougher challenge, but thankfully Superman has the right experience and skill to keep him contained, especially since partway through the DNAliens step in to help. Ultimately, Bizarro is unstable and dying, and after a short fight he collapses. Superman comforts the clone in his last moments.

In the aftermath, Project Cadmus having very much come to light, there is a conundrum. The Sympathetic Military Brass supporting cast member is inclined to take the whole operation, shut it down, and throw everyone in a dark hole. Superman actually argues against this, pointing out that studying alien life is not inherently wrong, and that ultimately various people in the operation did the right thing. So, a compromise: Westfield, Donovan, and various other seriously culpable people ( ie, everyone we've seen doing unambiguous evil **** ) get thrown in the deep dark prison cells. The rest of the organization however gets a pardon, and continues operating. . . only more oversight. Superman himself is part of this oversight, and the last thing in the movie is him helping to set up a new home for the DNAliens, where they can have space to themselves until each of them decides how they want to involve themselves with the world at large.

Overall effect: you have a Metropolis-focused story, that gives a chance to focus on Clark and Lois' characterization. You introduce a number of useful supporting characters. You use a *new* villain whose never been used in a movie before. You get thematic beats that help fix problems from earlier movies.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I think I enjoyed Fisher the most. Shame they made Cyborg look like Megatron from the first Transformers movie.

I'm hot and cold on Gal Gadot. She was very good in Wonder Woman, but then Justice League comes along and gives us this:

So... yeah. She's probably in better hands with a more emotionally intuitive director.

LOL, that look on Gal's face. To be fair, every movie scene looks worse in GIF format, but yeah... she didn't come off great in JL or BvS. Not terrible but she was much, MUCH better in Wonder Woman (which, IMO, is the only great DCEU movie so far, no matter how much $$$ Aquaman makes).

 

[STARMAN]

It's been brought up recently about Joe Cornish expressing interest in Superman during a recent press junket. I saw an interview where he says Superman interests him quite a bit and he thinks Henry Cavill is amazing and so good in Fallout but he feels they haven't cracked it and thought it was too dark. He didn't know if he was the guy to do it but as a moviegoer he feels there is a Superman movie he still hasn't seen.

Now I knew he supposedly turned down Star Trek Beyond but I also read he had meetings about Skull Island, one of the Die Hard films, one of the Hunger Games sequels, and possibly Gambit. But didn't feel he was ready. It shows you how some of these lesser known directors don't automatically jump to big franchises films like you might expect them to.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Any director in his right mind would have turned down Star Trek Beyond, lol. Anyway, I liked Attack the Block. Not sure if Cornish is right for Superman but hey, I'd give him a shot if he wants it.

 

[Micromind]

LOL, that look on Gal's face. To be fair, every movie scene looks worse in GIF format, but yeah... she didn't come off great in JL or BvS. Not terrible but she was much, MUCH better in Wonder Woman (which, IMO, is the only great DCEU movie so far, no matter how much $$$ Aquaman makes).

In BvS, she did great. (IMO.)

I don't think any "seasoned actress" could have done this scene much better than this.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I don’t really have a problem with her in BvS, but I have a hard time calling anything in that movie “great.”

 

[2kt09]

In BvS, she did great. (IMO.)

I don't think any "seasoned actress" could have done this scene much better than this.

To date, BvS her peak performance without any missteps. A seasoned actress could possibly do just as good, but Gal did that with such ease that we can't imagine another Diana.

 

[Boom]

If WB has any interest in making a Superman movie at this point, they should be taking meetings with any director that has shown public interest in the character. To date I believe that includes JA Bayona and now Joe Cornish. Wouldn't hurt to bring them in.

As for Cavill, I expect this will go the same way as the Affleck situation (albeit over a lengthier time period). Several more years will go by, and by the time they finally decide to do another Superman movie the new filmmaker will want to go in a different direction with a different actor. So just like Affleck with Batman, Henry Cavill is Superman until one day he isn't. We're never going to get an announcement out of the blue from Warner Bros. being like, "Oh by the way guys Henry Cavill isn't Superman anymore."

But if I were a betting man, I'd say we've seen the last of Cavill's Superman. At least in a starring capacity.

 

[STARMAN]

Routh was technically still Superman until Man of Steel was announced even though the handwriting was on the wall. Sometimes they're are little details that give you more clues. Back in July 2009 Routh mentioned his contract had expired well before news broke of the MOS reboot. Cavill has a studio option for one more but there's never been any indication of when it expires. If it were to lapse this year it would be further indication of WB's intentions having shifted.

The fact WB was going to bring Cavill back last Spring under certain terms and conditions shows they weren't so quick to disregard him and his Superman despite the mixed reaction. If it's up to the next director then I think the odds are more against him as a director might be more likely to want to do their own thing with their own Superman. Especially as time goes on. The best case for Cavill it seems is for WB to put last year's plan back on the table for consideration.

Right now it feels like the door is closed but not locked.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Routh was technically still Superman until Man of Steel was announced even though the handwriting was on the wall. Sometimes they're are little details that give you more clues. Back in July 2009 Routh mentioned his contract had expired well before news broke of the MOS reboot. Cavill has a studio option for one more but there's never been any indication of when it expires. If it were to lapse this year it would be further indication of WB's intentions having shifted.

The fact WB was going to bring Cavill back last Spring under certain terms and conditions shows they weren't so quick to disregard him and his Superman despite the mixed reaction. If it's up to the next director then I think the odds are more against him as a director might be more likely to want to do their own thing with their own Superman. Especially as time goes on. The best case for Cavill it seems is for WB to put last year's plan back on the table for consideration.

Right now it feels like the door is closed but not locked.

I think a lot of this is due to the demands of Henry and his management team. I would also bet to now that Aquaman shows that the Zack snyder versions of these characters CAN do great business as long as they’re given the right movie to star in made by the right director.

What that means for Henry is up in the air I guess. The fact they supposedly included a Superman cameo in Shazam (albeit a body double) shows that they’re still interested in the character at least, but we’ll see if they somehow squeeze Henry in at the last minute. There was a rumor that he shot a version of that cameo.

Henry is kind of a trickier case since he was literally at ground zero for the Snyder DCEU, so he may be a little more tarnished than the rest, but the success of Aquaman and WW show that the DC brand in general isn’t broken an all of these characters are just one good movie away from massive success.

 

[Deck Rickard]

To date, BvS her peak performance without any missteps. A seasoned actress could possibly do just as good, but Gal did that with such ease that we can't imagine another Diana.

You thought she was better in BvS than in Wonder Woman? Really? I mean, she may not have had any "missteps" but she was in about 5 minutes of that movie and had like 10 lines of dialogue.

 

[Boy Scout]

In BvS, she did great. (IMO.)

I don't think any "seasoned actress" could have done this scene much better than this.

Well, for starters, a seasoned actress probably wouldn’t have just stood there, expressionless, waiting for their turn to speak.

I like Gadot as much as the next guy, but I think it’s still fair to say that she’s still growing as an actress.

 

[Rorschach2012]

Can’t believe Cavill has the balls to play hardball. Dude, Superman is the biggest role you will ever have.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

That's what agents are for. They want their actors to get paid so they can get paid.

 

[2kt09]

You thought she was better in BvS than in Wonder Woman? Really? I mean, she may not have had any "missteps" but she was in about 5 minutes of that movie and had like 10 lines of dialogue.

If it hasn't been brought up enough ad naseum, she overexaggerates when it comes to raw emotion or even having this softer side. Playing the poised, confident type suits her through action, interaction, body language, face acting, etc. I don't mind the bubbly naivete in the origin story, but that's not Wonder Woman.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Can’t believe Cavill has the balls to play hardball. Dude, Superman is the biggest role you will ever have.

Seriously! Superman is his entire career. MI6 was supposed to be his "break" outside of Superman and he hasn't signed ONE movie deal yet... all he has to show for all of that is a Netflix series...

 

[DerekLake]

I think I enjoyed Fisher the most. Shame they made Cyborg look like Megatron from the first Transformers movie.

I'm hot and cold on Gal Gadot. She was very good in Wonder Woman, but then Justice League comes along and gives us this:

So... yeah. She's probably in better hands with a more emotionally intuitive director.

Well, for starters, a seasoned actress probably wouldn’t have just stood there, expressionless, waiting for their turn to speak.

I like Gadot as much as the next guy, but I think it’s still fair to say that she’s still growing as an actress.

Yeah Gal has some ways to go. As for the scene in question, I think part of the reason it falls flat is that there was absolutely no relationship established between Clark and Diana to give any real weight to her appeals to him. They share one brief, indirect exchange (both talking to the “trio” in BvS without any eye contact). So on what basis does Diana (and thereby, Gal) have to appeal to who “Kal-El” really is? Across the comics, Diana does have an independent friendship with Clark (or “Kal”, as she sometimes calls him), but here that doesn’t exist.

Randomly, here's my plot outline for a soft reboot Superman movie:

Metropolis, having been fully rebuilt ( use this as an opportunity to make any stylistic mods to the city's appearance ), is now afflicted with attacks by mysterious superhumans of unknown origin[...]

[...]Overall effect: you have a Metropolis-focused story, that gives a chance to focus on Clark and Lois' characterization. You introduce a number of useful supporting characters. You use a *new* villain whose never been used in a movie before. You get thematic beats that help fix problems from earlier movies.

I like it, especially the Metropolis focus, more Clark and Lois, a more complex enemy (an organization not just a man) and more Superman allies. I’m not sure Bizarro should feature, since at this point we’ve already gotten two films with Kryptonian enemies and a third with a briefly belligerent Superman. I think bringing in non-Kryptonian villains would be good at this stage.

My own thoughts for a Superman follow-up were to have him go up against a Morgan Edge-backed Intergang, which is employing several metahumans (e.g., Atomic Skull, Parasite, Livewire and Riot — plus Metallo) and smuggling advanced Kryptonian- and Apokoliptan-based weapons into the city in a plot to take it over. I’d weave in John Henry Irons (or his niece Natasha) as Steel and Suicide Slum as a major plot setting.

In terms of themes, I’d use the disparity between the highly-developed/rapidly developing New Troy and the impoverished Suicide Slum as the backdrop for a story about Superman's emerging role as a champion who fights for truth, justice and dignity on behalf of Metropolis’s citizens, especially the oppressed. I think we’ve gotten a good look at the first responder and planetary defender, so it’s just this last aspect of his role that needs to be explored. Of course, in the midst of that I’d keep some focus on Clark and Lois both as a couple and as competent investigative reporters. And I’d bring in more of Superman’s supporting characters, including Jimmy, Bibbo, and SCU leads Turpin and Sawyer.

And I’d save Cadmus for a follow-up film involving Lex Luthor, Lois’s dad Sam Lane, enhanced (conscripted) metahumans/DNAlien soldiers, and Captain Atom as a primary antagonist in a story about rogue U.S. military intervention in Qurac (getting at that “American Way”). I think Captain Atom would be an awesome “noble” opponent for Superman (and could have a sweet redemption arc of sorts at the end). And we could get some much bigger focus on Lois’s background for a change. Swanwick could also return since he’s a good character.

And then a third film could finally debut Brainiac in a story that circles back around to Clark’s Kryptonian heritage (with some major inspiration from “For the Man Who Has Everything”).

I think all of these would get at themes only touched on in BvS, and would round out the Superman character in a way that makes him complete. While I think Cavill could really shine in these stories, they also could work whether or not WB hard reboots the character.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think immigration could be an interesting angle for a Superman movie to explore. They’ll most likely never go there, but it could add an extra bit of thematic weight.

 

[Micromind]

If it hasn't been brought up enough ad naseum, she overexaggerates when it comes to raw emotion or even having this softer side. Playing the poised, confident type suits her through action, interaction, body language, face acting, etc. I don't mind the bubbly naivete in the origin story, but that's not Wonder Woman.

Both portrayals worked for me, naive portrayal in WW and composed demeanor in BvS. In JL, the movie suffered from many problems, including shoddy dialogue and scenes where actors were saying something but came off like they were talking to themselves.

I agree that Gal is nowhere near other experienced "Oscar winning actresses", but I have seen people improve a bit as they get some experience, I remember people used to criticize Matthew McConaughey for his acting skills or lack thereof , 10 years back but now he's considered as a good actor.

 

[The Guard]

Seriously! Superman is his entire career. MI6 was supposed to be his "break" outside of Superman and he hasn't signed ONE movie deal yet... all he has to show for all of that is a Netflix series...

And this is why I don't buy everything about the "contract negotiation" rumors.

No agent worth their salt is going to turn down some really good money instead of no really good money, when it comes to a star who may not exactly have their pick of projects. I suppose it's possible WB tried to nickel and dime Cavill for a cameo, but...it's a cameo. Again, some really good money VS none...easy choice for most people.

It's likely if there were negotiations, that they were about Cavill cementing his future in the DCEU, period, wanting a solo sooner rather than later instead of just cameos, etc.

 

[The Guard]

Yeah Gal has some ways to go. As for the scene in question, I think part of the reason it falls flat is that there was absolutely no relationship established between Clark and Diana to give any real weight to her appeals to him. They share one brief, indirect exchange (both talking to the “trio” in BvS without any eye contact). So on what basis does Diana (and thereby, Gal) have to appeal to who “Kal-El” really is? Across the comics, Diana does have an independent friendship with Clark (or “Kal”, as she sometimes calls him), but here that doesn’t exist.

I think you're overthinking this. She's appealing to him as Kal-El because he's Kal-El.

He was just reborn from Kryptonian technology and is operating purely on instinct. He clearly doesn't quite remember who he is, and is only starting to piece together some of the things that have happened to him. The scene is about making him remember who he is as his memory slowly returns.

If she knew him better (which Batman does, not well, but better), she would appeal to him as Clark. That's why Batman appeals to him as Clark, and uses Lois to calm him down.

Diana's moment falls flat because it's not a great line reading, but people acting like that somehow drags down her entire performance in the film is a bit much. That line is mostly just there as a beat to set up the next big moment, which does not fall flat.

 

[metaphysician]

I think immigration could be an interesting angle for a Superman movie to explore. They’ll most likely never go there, but it could add an extra bit of thematic weight.

I think Supergirl has pretty effectively poisoned that well, sadly. Its tough to do a meaningful story examination of a topic when you constantly remind everyone of that other version which did the theme in the incoherent, mad libs soap box style.