The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Mr. Earle]

Even if there are a bunch of villains in the next film, it could still include the Penguin as an upper class socialite who owns the Iceberg lounge where Bruce and Selina could dine.
If the film is too busy with the other villains, that would be it, a small cameo from the Penguin. Or he could be the next mob boss, taking over Gotham's underworld from the Italians and the Chechen's etc...

I certainly dont want him to be the main villain. He would be the next film's Maroni. Oh and he should be just a short fat man with a monocle. No freaking penguin monster for god's sake!

 

[blackkeno]

Alex, very interesting ideas. As noted, the holding the city for ransom with a nuke part could still be reworked.

I'm not that familiar with the Black Mask character, but as a prominent businessman couldn't he also be leading the public movement against the rogue vigilante, Batman.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think TDK ending with Batman seeming to have killed people, including cops, should really heighten his fear factor with both the underworld and the police. This leaves him really fighting the world, seemingly legit efforts by the police and Sionis, as well as the underworld gangsters, Black Mask, and indirectly the Penguin. Catwoman would add a whole set of complications personally and "professionally."

 

[Dark Knight]

Alex, very interesting ideas. As noted, the holding the city for ransom with a nuke part could still be reworked.

I'm not that familiar with the Black Mask character, but as a prominent businessman couldn't he also be leading the public movement against the rogue vigilante, Batman.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think TDK ending with Batman seeming to have killed people, including cops, should really heighten his fear factor with both the underworld and the police. This leaves him really fighting the world, seemingly legit efforts by the police and Sionis, as well as the underworld gangsters, Black Mask, and indirectly the Penguin. Catwoman would add a whole set of complications personally and "professionally."

The nuke part is what I don't like.

 

[Alex Logan]

The nickname "Penguin" should be used as an underworld inside joke because Cobblepot would like a Penguin physically. That's why Bob Hoskins would be perfect as Penguin in Nolans' more "realistic" Bat world.

To an extent, that's the idea. I was going for a cross between mob boss and arms dealer. The best interpretation of how I see the Penguin in a Nolan Batman film would be from Simeon Weisz in Lord of War.

Alex, very interesting ideas. As noted, the holding the city for ransom with a nuke part could still be reworked.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not that familiar with the Black Mask character, but as a prominent businessman couldn't he also be leading the public movement against the rogue vigilante, Batman.

Yes, because Batman is the only person who could stand in his way.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think TDK ending with Batman seeming to have killed people, including cops, should really heighten his fear factor with both the underworld and the police. This leaves him really fighting the world, seemingly legit efforts by the police and Sionis, as well as the underworld gangsters, Black Mask, and indirectly the Penguin. Catwoman would add a whole set of complications personally and "professionally."

Yep.

The nuke part is what I don't like.

I have another idea, but even with my changes it's not original enough.

 

[ViciousValentin]

I understand where your ideas are coming from and believe me they are great, but I myself have issues with a few things.

The mythology your talking about only exsists on the comics. In order to adapt your idea to what Nolan has already done Black Mask and his false face society would have to have been around before Batman Begins. I just don't see that working because it's almost like you're going backwards in storytelling.

I'm very familar with Batman Begins and I like Talia, but I think your ideas here are too close to what came before. Give me something new, give me something fresh.

As far the Joker goes, I don't want to know "The who, the how, and the why". I just want the mystery. You would also have to recast the Joker and I don't see that happening either.

I do think Bruce Wayne and Batman could battle Black Mask though.

In closing, as I said I really like your ideas, but... I don't think they fit with where the story NEEDS to go after the events of TDK. If you're just doing this for fun then by all means take all the liberty's you want.

Now, I'd like to get your take on an idea of mine. This is something I came up with while reading your stuff. Here goes...

Draft One

The story would be set a year after the events of The Dark Knight, giving Roman Sionis plenty of time to come and "setup shop" in Gotham. He could also use his dual identity to the fullest. As Sionis he would be everything that Bruce Wayne is on the surface, a philanthropist, who in the public eye is totally clean. As Black Mask he would control the largest organized crime family in the history of Gotham. (We need escalation here, a mob boss and a "freak" in one.) With most of the mob left in chaos the underworld would be his for the taking. Sionis still battles Wayne Enterprises and Bruce gets the feeling that he's dirty, but has to prove it as Batman.

There also has to be a rouge element, which is where Catwoman comes into play. Her background would have to be changed a little to fit the story, but her main motivation is to kill Black Mask. He killed someone close to her and she's one of the few people alive who knows that Sionis and Black Mask are the same person. She strikes at him in the underworld as well as publicly, which puts her on the outcast list. The police want her because he's tried to kill an important business man, Batman wants her because she's interfering with his crusade against injustice.

The final player in the game would be the Penguin. Oswald Chesterfield Cobblepot, flashy nightclub owner to the public and seller of arms and information to "other parties". He sells weapons to the False Face Society to help take over Gotham, while selling information about thier leader to the police and Catwoman. His motivation is to reap the largest benefits, while secretly hoping they wipe each other out so he can step in and take control of Gotham. To make is character a little more real the nickname of "The Penguin" could be a joke in the underworld. He wouldn't even need to be called The Penguin. Black Mask sends his men to see "The Bird" about weapons.

The final act of the film could play out with Black Mask holding Gotham at ransom with a nuke. Batman finds him, and with a little help from Catwoman, proves to the public who Sionis really is. Batman redeems himself in the public eye, but Catwoman is forced to reveal her identity and answer for trying to murder Sionis.

I think this this flows well with Nolan's crime epic, gives us a nice duality theme and still manages to deliver three NEW characters with solid motivation. Let me know what you think.

I think its decent I just don't wanna see The Penguin or Catwoman really in another film especially Catwoman. I do think Penguin as a gangster could be cool however I would still hold him off for another flick.

I wanna see this movie be about the redemption of Batman because Gotham is so under siege that He ends up being the only way to balance between crime and the well being of the city. Again Have Bruce start living like his father trying to fight the good fight with the wealth and power of Wayne Enterprises then have that taken away first by lies and propaganda from Black Mask then Have the physical building destroyed by the Joker.

You have to bring Joker back that was the whole reason for his line at the end of TDK.And I think it would be genius to tie down all three movies

re read this segment of the story and YES Black Mask has been established in Gotham for sometime and has been one of the main reason things are as bad as they have gotten

The Joker was used by the Black Mask who wanted to move in on the mob families in Gotham, to tear apart the structure built up by Sal Maroni and at the same time destroy the influence of Batman. The Black Mask is an older man, very rich, and a rogue member of the league of shadows. After leaving the League he formed the False Face Society who recruited the Joker. Black Mask's most important weapons are fear and intimidation. He is known for his brutal and sadistic torture techniques, especially on the face. He sees the Joker’s purpose was served as he drove the Batman from hero to vigilante in the general public eye, and needs to dispose of the Joker before his identity is revealed. The Black Mask is secretly also a wealthy business man and has the pull to push around Bruce Wayne and also fabricate documents and information. His Intel is unparalleled, he nearly completes a hostile takeover of Wayne Enterprises, and he is a master criminal strategist with vast amount of resources. He was the crime lord of Gotham city for many years as an undercover businessman and was the original target of Ras al Ghul. The Scarecrow is unwillingly forced to give up his secrets to the False Face Society and Black Mask also uses his connections to gather information on his enemies, and then hits them at their weak points, such as family and friends. (ties to Thomas Wayne, and his death) The Black Mask infiltrates Wayne Enterprises and in an attempt to take over the building kills Lucious Fox. Black Mask commits a series of murders disguised as Batman. This plan is complicated by the escape of Joker. Joker finds and seeks revenge on the Black Mask exposing his true identity and scarring him in the process. The False Face Society and the League of Shadows Hunters led by Talia go to war in the streets of Gotham.

 

[sabetoonth]

i just dont like your tie with bm ras and joker, roman is a sadist, he tortures people for fun, he made selinas bet freind watch him kill her husband then he fed him to her one little bit at a time, and that is why roman got shot in the head by selina
joker is more unstable tha the most unstale man youve ever see, hes nutzo, hes not gonn work for a mn whose done that kinda **** to him, hes a rogue an should neve be tied to another rogue in his origin, nolanverse or not, and i think the line from the end of tdk was a reference to how even 70 or so years later in the comics, joker hasnt won, nor has bats, its an eternal tug of war for the final destiniation of gotham, anarchiac hell hole, or the city in the shadow of the bat. and ras has never had any tie to joker or roman before, not like what your suggesting, roman being older i dont mind, but not a rogue league member. or the ffs as a splinter group of the league, its the name roman gave his army of mask wearing goons

 

[Jumpin' Jack]

Joker controlled by Black mask? are you insane ? Joker works for no one and especially he doesn't work for black mask. Your ties are weird and I don't like them. black mask from the league of shadows? WTF? killing Lucious Fox? NEVER! and the great Ra's Al Ghul going after some guy who messes up faces and is a crime boss? I don't think so.

 

[BillyZaned]

Going to do my own interuptation of Bane.... almost nothing of what the comic did, but that's the point of this thread

Bane - A russian, born in to the Russian mob. Growing up, his father was head of Moscows most powerful organized crime family. He lived in riches, and was baptized in the blood of his father's enemies. His fathers brother was ex-soviet military, who was taken from the army, and trained in the arts of Greko Roman wrestling, and body building to be a powerhouse russian olympian. As Bane grew up, he became close with his uncle, who taught him how to defend himself, as well as the art of body building. As Bane's body grew, so did his mind, his mother always forcing him to keep his intellegence as big as his body. Bane was always close with his uncle, but still respected his father, and longed for his Father's love. When Bane turned 18, he witnessed his mother having sex with his much beloved uncle... he saw this, and everything he knew was destroyed.... feeling betrayed, he told his father what he has witnessed. His father, outragged, had his top soldiers sieze his brother, after a brutal and hard fought fight, Bane's uncle was captured. Bane's father bound, and beat his brother for two days straight, on the third day, Bane was brought in, to where his father told him to finish his uncle off, not with a gun, but with his bare hands. Bane is slightly hesistent at first, but feeling rejected by his Uncle, and seeing a oppurtunity to earn his father's love, he engages with his uncle, and kills him.. Banes mother is forced to witness this, and is appualed be her sons actions.
Bane's father applause his son, embraces him, Bane finally has got what he always desired, his father's love. But, right as that happens, Bane's mother grabs a gun from a nearby mob member and shoots her husband, and wounds her son accidently in the face, Bane, enraged, thinking his mother has tried to kill him, grabs his mother by her throat, she painfully forces the words "love... don't" through her clenced throat, but Bane has none of it, crushing her wind pipe and larnex with his bare hands. He drops her, letting her suffer on the ground till she suffocates to death...
Bane falls to the ground, blood coming from his mangeled face, he is injured badly from the stray gunshot of his mother... he is taken to a hospital, where he is treated. As Bane is recovering, he has his father's men bring him his doctor. Bane, now obssesed at how his strong body, was easily brought down, want's to make himself the most powerful, indestructable man on the planet. He has the doctor forced into making him a drug that will increase his mass, strength, stanima, and speed... the doctor tests this drug on unexpecting patients, the results are pheonemenol, but, the only drawback being that if the drug is stopped being taken, the patient dies..... the doctor calls this steriod, Venom... he warns Bane of the side effects...... but Bane could care less
over the years, Bane gains control over his father's crime family, as well as smaller ones in Russia, becoming the main "godfather" figure in all of Russia. he also marries a doctor, a gorgious women who rivals his intellegence, and has taken over the reigns of making Venom for Bane. Bane now has a permanent venom drip going into his system. Bane also wears a mask most of the time, to hide his managled, scared face.

Bane's Russian Mafia family is huge, but it also bores Bane, since there are no opposing forces within Russia, and Banes combatinent nature, he needs a challenge... he learns of Gotham, and how most of the Italian Mafia has been arrested, or disbandened.... he see's this as a prime oppurtunity, not only to expand his empire, but because of something that lives in gotham, something he has never found in his native land, and man that imposes a challenge to Bane, the Batman....



just an idea... I'm sure it will be torn apart, but I dont' feel the whole Amazon thing would be that realistic... plus, I like the whole persona of the Russian mob.. Bane could be tattooed up like Viggo in "Eastern Promises".
The mask is must, which will allow a body builder to play the part, but allow a voice over so the acting is good....
Plus, I think the element of the wife making Bane's venom, adds a unique element to the story... Batman can't beat Bane hand to hand... so, he has to get to his wife... if done, Bane's supply of Venom will be cut off... BUT, it will cost Bane his life.... which is against what Batman does... so how does Batman stop a unstoppable force, without stopping that what fuels him? Could get some interesting detective stuff, and Lucious coming up with a Venom formula that is less potent, but will depower Bane enough to be stopped....

 

[Alex Logan]

I think its decent I just don't wanna see The Penguin or Catwoman really in another film especially Catwoman. I do think Penguin as a gangster could be cool however I would still hold him off for another flick.

I wanna see this movie be about the redemption of Batman because Gotham is so under siege that He ends up being the only way to balance between crime and the well being of the city. Again Have Bruce start living like his father trying to fight the good fight with the wealth and power of Wayne Enterprises then have that taken away first by lies and propaganda from Black Mask then Have the physical building destroyed by the Joker.

You have to bring Joker back that was the whole reason for his line at the end of TDK.And I think it would be genius to tie down all three movies

re read this segment of the story and YES Black Mask has been established in Gotham for sometime and has been one of the main reason things are as bad as they have gotten

The Joker was used by the Black Mask who wanted to move in on the mob families in Gotham, to tear apart the structure built up by Sal Maroni and at the same time destroy the influence of Batman. The Black Mask is an older man, very rich, and a rogue member of the league of shadows. After leaving the League he formed the False Face Society who recruited the Joker. Black Mask's most important weapons are fear and intimidation. He is known for his brutal and sadistic torture techniques, especially on the face. He sees the Joker’s purpose was served as he drove the Batman from hero to vigilante in the general public eye, and needs to dispose of the Joker before his identity is revealed. The Black Mask is secretly also a wealthy business man and has the pull to push around Bruce Wayne and also fabricate documents and information. His Intel is unparalleled, he nearly completes a hostile takeover of Wayne Enterprises, and he is a master criminal strategist with vast amount of resources. He was the crime lord of Gotham city for many years as an undercover businessman and was the original target of Ras al Ghul. The Scarecrow is unwillingly forced to give up his secrets to the False Face Society and Black Mask also uses his connections to gather information on his enemies, and then hits them at their weak points, such as family and friends. (ties to Thomas Wayne, and his death) The Black Mask infiltrates Wayne Enterprises and in an attempt to take over the building kills Lucious Fox. Black Mask commits a series of murders disguised as Batman. This plan is complicated by the escape of Joker. Joker finds and seeks revenge on the Black Mask exposing his true identity and scarring him in the process. The False Face Society and the League of Shadows Hunters led by Talia go to war in the streets of Gotham.

I appreciate your honesty, so now I'll give you some.

Catwoman is who MOST Batman fans want to see. Next to the Joker she is the most popular person in the Batman mythos. She is also the character who mostly DESERVES to be in another film. She needs an honest and near faithful adaptation and she also NEEDS THE NOLAN TREATMENT! Besides, the old films and the new films are clearly NOT conneted so I don't think is really matters.

The further and further you go with your story the less I like it. You're making Black Mask out to be something that he's not. I think you're taking FAR too many liberties with him. He is a bad ass, but he's not a power house villain like the Joker. I also think your connecting him to far too many other characters. It almost seems like you want him to be king of castle.

I really don't think the Joker should be recast either.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You have to bring Joker back that was the whole reason for his line at the end of TDK.And I think it would be genius to tie down all three movies

I think that's a common misinterpretation of the line. That line more or less sums up the relationship of Joker and Batman. It's meant to be representative of their relationship as a whole. It could be used to indicate his presence in the next movie, but it by no means certifies the Joker as being in the next movie for sure.

I appreciate your honesty, so now I'll give you some.

Catwoman is who MOST Batman fans want to see. Next to the Joker she is the most popular person in the Batman mythos. She is also the character who mostly DESERVES to be in another film. She needs an honest and near faithful adaptation and she also NEEDS THE NOLAN TREATMENT! Besides, the old films and the new films are clearly NOT conneted so I don't think is really matters.

The further and further you go with your story the less I like it. You're making Black Mask out to be something that he's not. I think you're taking FAR too many liberties with him. He is a bad ass, but he's not a power house villain like the Joker. I also think your connecting him to far too many other characters. It almost seems like you want him to be king of castle.

I really don't think the Joker should be recast either.

I agree with you about Catwoman, but I disagree about the Joker. If Nolan's story absolutely calls for the Joker to be in the next movie, then I don't want him to compromise his vision because of Heath's unfortunate passing. Part of the thing that made the Joker so great was the writing and storyline he was involved in. If Mr. J is a critical part of the outline Nolan had penned out, then I say recast.

However, If he's not essential to the story, then I see no reason to recast.

 

[Alex Logan]

I think that's a common misinterpretation of the line. That line more or less sums up the relationship of Joker and Batman. It's meant to be representative of their relationship as a whole. It could be used to indicate his presence in the next movie, but it by no means certifies the Joker as being in the next movie for sure.

Agreed.

I agree with you about Catwoman, but I disagree about the Joker. If Nolan's story absolutely calls for the Joker to be in the next movie, then I don't want him to compromise his vision because of Heath's unfortunate passing. Part of the thing that made the Joker so great was the writing and storyline he was involved in. If Mr. J is a critical part of the outline Nolan had penned out, then I say recast.

However, If he's not essential to the story, then I see no reason to recast.

I understand what you're saying, but my point of view goes back to the Rachel recast. Rachel was NOT essential to the story. They could have put any female that had ties to Dent, used a little creative thinking, and the outcome would have been the same. Batman didn't need a love interest in this film. One of my biggest complants was Bruce wanting to give up being Batman.

 

[JokerLedger]

One of my biggest complants was Bruce wanting to give up being Batman.

Can I ask you to elaborate on that?
In my opinion, Bruce wanting to give up the mantle of the bat was the next logical step for the character in the franchise. Granted Batman Begins was the origin story, The Dark Knight still highlights the beginning of his career as Batman which was still in its infancy. He had a woman whom he loved and wanted to spend the rest of his life with but being Batman conflicted with his personal life... then comes Harvey Dent who he sees as a potential replacement. One who actually has a face and isn't taking the law into his own hands.

The actions of The Joker finally makes Bruce realize that he's the only one capable of doing the job. He realizes that he can't give it up and that he's Batman for good from here on out whether he likes it or not. It's what still made Bruce/Batman an interesting character the second time around

 

[sabetoonth]

in b3 he needs to moveinot batman, not seeing it as a curse, but as a life, his life, him, he is batman
and billyzaned, not bad idea, though bane is bane, he needs to be south american, he grew up serving his fatehrs prison sentence, he trined his mind as much as his body, he carried around a knife in the back of his tddy bear for protection, i like your ideas but its justy not bane, ya get plenty of ced for tryin, your close though

 

[DieSmiling]

Can I ask you to elaborate on that?
In my opinion, Bruce wanting to give up the mantle of the bat was the next logical step for the character in the franchise. Granted Batman Begins was the origin story, The Dark Knight still highlights the beginning of his career as Batman which was still in its infancy. He had a woman whom he loved and wanted to spend the rest of his life with but being Batman conflicted with his personal life... then comes Harvey Dent who he sees as a potential replacement. One who actually has a face and isn't taking the law into his own hands.

The actions of The Joker finally makes Bruce realize that he's the only one capable of doing the job. He realizes that he can't give it up and that he's Batman for good from here on out whether he likes it or not. It's what still made Bruce/Batman an interesting character the second time around

I agree. It reminded me a lot of Mask of the Phantasm -- Bruce has to make a choice between being Batman and the woman he loves before the choice is made for him... And now he's Batman forever.

 

[sabetoonth]

haha, batman forever

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

Ya know I was watching The Batman on the Boom network and it was the episode where, Penguin, Riddler, and Joker, was fighting for control over Gotham...and it got me 2 thinking, this would be the perfect storyline for B3...

the new villians (i think would work); Black Mask, Penguin, and Joker(recasted) if not Joker maybe Talia/League of shawdows

other characters: Catwoman(out for Black Mask) and stealing from Penguin, Rupert Thorne(his part would be like Moroni) he's working w/Penguin and/or Bane either as muscle for Penguin or Talia(if she was to be in B3):these characters would be minor to the plot albeit Catwoman(she would be the "racheal" character in B3)

I know ppl felt like havin more than 2 villians is over-kill, but if done right it could work the problem is that it needs to be 1 central villian and which 2 are secondary

I could see Joker returning because of his comments @ the end of TDk, and he wants to reclaim "his" city, Black Mask as a villian for both Catwoman/Batman, Penguin as a undercover weapons dealer and/or Talia wants vengeance for her father

"if" these characters are used then Catwoman/Black Mask story would intertwine w/each other...

this is all i have figured out for now, feel free to add on....

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

Also!!! Let's say Black Mask, Penguin, and Joker are villians in B3...

We have BM aka Roman and Penguin aka Oswald and Batman aka Bruce; 3 business men, wealthy, w/ secret identities, and 2 of them h8e Bruce one for financial reasons ans the other for personal reasons...

their could be a scene where Bruce,Roman, Oswald and possibly Selena Kyle are at charity event at Oswald's club, through this scene the audience will see how Roman/Oswald dislike Bruce...and Selena is on the prowl to steal from the elite...n encounters Bruce...this scene is ironic because we have 4 characters each w/alter-egos...Bruce is their because he doesn't trust Cobblepot and believes he's no good and is helping the mob ala Ropert Thorne comes into play....

Penguin is trading weapons w/Black Mask which he uses 2 terrorizing the east side of gotham that catwoman has sworn 2 protect...a little bit of her past wld be explained 2 Batman when they run n2 each other

Batman/Gordon are still working with eachother, and it was Gordon's job to make sure Joker doesnt escape from Arkum, which he does w/the help of Prof. Harley Quinn(no scene just the mention of her name) who Joker co-erced her 2 thinking if she lets him escape he'll come back 4 her and they'll be 2gether

Mention of Jokers escape sends mass panic throughout Gotham, and when Black Mask hears of this he moves his organiztion into central gotham citing that it is on room for 1 "freak"...Joker hears that Penguin is the man to go 2 for weapons(by the way Joker gives him the name Penguin, which Oswald h8es) Penguin refuses to give Joker anything hearing how he used the mob, so this turns Joker/Penguin into enemies....eventually their fued spills out into the streets of Gotham...Joker vs Black Mask, Joker vs. Penguin...Thorne fearing the Joker and Batman calls in Bane to help...oh! and Catwoman enters the scene for her vengeance against Black Mask...

Batman/Catwoman become somewhat like Allies only 2 take down Black Mask

eventually 1 villain dies and Batman manages to redeem himself in the public's eye...and catwoman escapes as usual w/her citing what Joker said in TDK, "we're desitned to do this forever"....

just my take on what B3 should be like, in my head it makes sense, but...feel free to add on your opinion....

 

[Infinity9999x]

Agreed.



I understand what you're saying, but my point of view goes back to the Rachel recast. Rachel was NOT essential to the story. They could have put any female that had ties to Dent, used a little creative thinking, and the outcome would have been the same. Batman didn't need a love interest in this film. One of my biggest complants was Bruce wanting to give up being Batman.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. I know Rachel wasn't essential to the story, I'm saying Joker only should be recast if he's essential to the plotline of Batman 3, otherwise, there's no need for him.

 

[blackkeno]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. I know Rachel wasn't essential to the story, I'm saying Joker only should be recast if he's essential to the plotline of Batman 3, otherwise, there's no need for him.

I doubt the Joker is essential to the plotline of B3, because I don't think much though had been given to B3 by the time Heath died. I think the plot of TDK and the Joker's last comment indicate that they conceptually expected him to be in B3. But this doesn't mean a plot had taken shape. The Joker card at the end of BB indicates that the Joker was to be in the sequel, but I hadn't heard that much if any of the plot had been worked out at that time. I think the same holds for TDK. Although they intended to have the Joker in B3, I think his death was so tragic to all involved that if any work since then has been done on the plot, they didn't include him.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I doubt the Joker is essential to the plotline of B3, because I don't think much though had been given to B3 by the time Heath died. I think the plot of TDK and the Joker's last comment indicate that they conceptually expected him to be in B3. But this doesn't mean a plot had taken shape. The Joker card at the end of BB indicates that the Joker was to be in the sequel, but I hadn't heard that much if any of the plot had been worked out at that time. I think the same holds for TDK. Although they intended to have the Joker in B3, I think his death was so tragic to all involved that if any work since then has been done on the plot, they didn't include him.

Despite Nolan's protectiveness of his stories, they did in fact have a (working) plot outline for TDK not long after BB came out. I remember Goyer giving an interview in which he stated that they were playing around with a plot that would involve the Joker running wild on Gotham, allegedly killing Rachel, and scaring Dent at the end of the movie, (but in a cliffhanger type way.)

Almost all of this was incorporated into TDK, albeit with changes. Joker still scars Harvey, but Two-Face was not saved for the third film.

I would not be surprised if Nolan had a rough outline of B3, and if the Joker was an intregal part of that plot, I'd rather he not change it.

However, I'm going to support whatever he decides to do, because it's his story, and he hasn't let me down yet.

 

[Alex Logan]

Can I ask you to elaborate on that?
In my opinion, Bruce wanting to give up the mantle of the bat was the next logical step for the character in the franchise. Granted Batman Begins was the origin story, The Dark Knight still highlights the beginning of his career as Batman which was still in its infancy. He had a woman whom he loved and wanted to spend the rest of his life with but being Batman conflicted with his personal life... then comes Harvey Dent who he sees as a potential replacement. One who actually has a face and isn't taking the law into his own hands.

The actions of The Joker finally makes Bruce realize that he's the only one capable of doing the job. He realizes that he can't give it up and that he's Batman for good from here on out whether he likes it or not. It's what still made Bruce/Batman an interesting character the second time around

I can't ever recall a storyline were Bruce Wayne wanted to give up being Batman. I think his actions in the film were out of character. The way Batman Begins ended was perfect. Rachel COULD have been removed from picture, but she wasn't and I think that was a big mistake. TDK is the better film, but BB is the better Batman film.

And the way it was handled in B: MOTP was much better.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying. I know Rachel wasn't essential to the story, I'm saying Joker only should be recast if he's essential to the plotline of Batman 3, otherwise, there's no need for him.

We agree then.

What I was saying was that I peronally don't think the Joker is needed again. I think we say eventhing we needed to see and it's time for some fresh blood. If he WAS added to the third film I think it would because of the hype or poor writing.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Riddler in my storyline is bitter,twisted,revenge seeking,cancer sufferer,psycho/genius. You can read my story at **************.com

 

[Alex Logan]

Riddler in my storyline is bitter,twisted,revenge seeking,cancer sufferer,psycho/genius. You can read my story at **************.com

Why not post it here? That's what this thread is for. What it's NOT for is promoting your own website.

 

[returntovoid]

I can't ever recall a storyline were Bruce Wayne wanted to give up being Batman. I think his actions in the film were out of character. The way Batman Begins ended was perfect. Rachel COULD have been removed from picture, but she wasn't and I think that was a big mistake. TDK is the better film, but BB is the better Batman film.

I totally agree except I thought Batman Begins was a better film and a better Batman film.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Why not post it here? That's what this thread is for. What it's NOT for is promoting your own website.

I cant post it on here. Its too big.