The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Melkay]

Catwoman- Make her a dark mirror of Batman instead of a jewel thief. A costumed vigilante known as "The Cat", who is out for revenge against the Mob.

Catwoman can't be vigilante. She's a criminal. She has always been. She embraces breaking the Law and that's what's attractive with her. And a mirror of a vigilante is not another vigilante. Batman fights for the Law and society outside society and outside the Law. Catwoman also works on her own, she doesn't belong to the mob ar anything... but she breaks it. She has no respect for it and she finds it oppresive. Bruce and Selina come from very different backgrounds, and their points of view are very different. That's being a mirror.

Besides, you can't have Catwoman as a vigilante because that's a blow to Nolan's realism. Batman can do what he doesn because of his walth and his strenghth. She's not as strong as he is, she hasn't learned so many fighting styles, she doesn't have all his gadgets... she's not prepared to be a vigilante. She's agile and elusive and being a woman allows her to go under the radar... she's prepared to be a cat-burglar.

 

[Melkay]

I like the idea of Riddler being his own form of twisted vigilante, who sets up death traps with riddles but only against criminals and corrupt.


Along the lines of...

So, when you say "along the the lines", you actually mean "rip-off"?

i like the idea that edward nigma is on a taskforce from a government agency who is charged with finding the identity of the batman. he could be like the number one code cracker or something like that. i don't think he should start off as the riddler, but the more and more obsessed with the case and batman he gets he could slowly starts to sink into madness aswell. then he could start killing anyone who gets in the way of his investigation, or who he believes knows who batman is. thus luring batman into investigating him. leaving riddles at each crime scene alluding to whos next or something along those lines. it could prove to be a good battle of wits. The Riddler trying to find out who Batman is, and then Batman trying to find out who The Riddler is.

Thank you, that's exactly the idea I like the most too.

 

[Ziggyman]

How about Catwoman being a female "Sons Of Batman"...Inspired by what he's done...But the message is sent wrong and instead of being a vigilante like Batman and aspiring for good...She does it for greed and actual revenge because of her tragic history or something...

 

[David Rice]

I like the idea of the Riddler being a detective competing with Batman and then eventually becoming a mastermind.

This would tie right into the title of Shadow of the Bat. Batman is now facing the fallout and his own inner demons.

I just don't want to see more than two or possibly three major villains in one story. I definitely don't want to see the Riddler reduced to another version of the joker. He would have to be someone who is extremely intelligent, and always one step ahead of the spider...er bat.

He could discover that Harvey Dent is in fact alive, parading as the Black Mask puppeteering the mob. Meanwhile, Harvey has found that being on the League of Shadows payroll is very profitable and places him in immediate connection with Tahlia Al Ghul, who is now their leader. He can manipulate her as well to take out Batman.

Tahlia is in Gotham to do two things: Avenge her father and destroy Gotham.

What better way for Harvey Dent to make Batman and the Police Department pay for his loss than having the League of Shadows destroy Gotham. The white knight has now become the dark horse!

Also, it would be cool to see everything come to a head as everyone left in the wake of Batman steps out of his shadow.

I really don't undertand these ideas about using Two Face, Talia and the League. "If" Mr. Nolan and his crew come back for a third film they will not rehash or re-use villians and themes. Yes, it was done with the Scarcrow, but that was to give closure to his character after Batman Begins. Once again, "if" they do come back they will do something fresh and new.

 

[David Rice]

Catwoman can't be vigilante. She's a criminal. She has always been. She embraces breaking the Law and that's what's attractive with her. And a mirror of a vigilante is not another vigilante. Batman fights for the Law and society outside society and outside the Law. Catwoman also works on her own, she doesn't belong to the mob ar anything... but she breaks it. She has no respect for it and she finds it oppresive. Bruce and Selina come from very different backgrounds, and their points of view are very different. That's being a mirror.

Besides, you can't have Catwoman as a vigilante because that's a blow to Nolan's realism. Batman can do what he doesn because of his walth and his strenghth. She's not as strong as he is, she hasn't learned so many fighting styles, she doesn't have all his gadgets... she's not prepared to be a vigilante. She's agile and elusive and being a woman allows her to go under the radar... she's prepared to be a cat-burglar.

Catwoman is criminal/anti-hero.

How about Catwoman being a female "Son Of Batman"...Inspired by what he's done...But the message is sent wrong and instead of being a vigilante like Batman and aspiring for good...She does it for greed and actual revenge because of her tragic history or something...

What do you mean by this?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

yea that could be a good way to use catwomen. i think the next villain should be riddler though, i've already posted what i think could be done with him. i still think nolan could structure it similer to TDK (not a complete repeat though) and have the main focus on the riddler for the first two thirds of the film and the grande finale of Nolans batman trilogy could be a final showdown with the joker.

 

[Ziggyman]

...Those Batman wannabes...

 

[David Rice]

i like the idea that edward nigma is on a taskforce from a government agency who is charged with finding the identity of the batman. he could be like the number one code cracker or something like that. i don't think he should start off as the riddler, but the more and more obsessed with the case and batman he gets he could slowly starts to sink into madness aswell. then he could start killing anyone who gets in the way of his investigation, or who he believes knows who batman is. thus luring batman into investigating him. leaving riddles at each crime scene alluding to whos next or something along those lines. it could prove to be a good battle of wits. The Riddler trying to find out who Batman is, and then Batman trying to find out who The Riddler is.

This is a good idea... BUT The Riddler is not a murder.

 

[David Rice]

...Those Batman wannabes...

Well, if you get techinal she did see Batman in action and decided become Catwoman, but she was not a vigilante.

yea that could be a good way to use catwomen. i think the next villain should be riddler though, i've already posted what i think could be done with him. i still think nolan could structure it similer to TDK (not a complete repeat though) and have the main focus on the riddler for the first two thirds of the film and the grande finale of Nolans batman trilogy could be a final showdown with the joker.

I think The Joker will be left out of the third film.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

This is a good idea... BUT The Riddler is not a murder.

yea a good point, another way he could grab batmans attention then is by maybe hacking into and thus damaging the biggest company in Gotham.........Wayne Enterprises. That would most certainly get Bats attention and could give the Riddler greater oppertunities to find out who is his, even if he doesn't realise it at first.

 

[David Rice]

yea a good point, another way he could grab batmans attention then is by maybe hacking into and thus damaging the biggest company in Gotham.........Wayne Enterprises. That would most certainly get Bats attention and could give the Riddler greater oppertunities to find out who is his, even if he doesn't realise it at first.

Now that's a GREAT idea!!!

 

[The Major]

The same could’ve been said about Two-Face in TDK or Scarecrow in BB.

What I find interesting about her is that she has the possibility of talking with Batman and yet appealing to Bruce Wayne. She can crack the emotional barrier given by his mask, his voice, his whole alter ego. And those are the moments when whe wee a fallible human being under that mask (just like when he beated the hel out of the Joker as soon as he mentinoed Rachel). The moments I enjoy Catwoman the most is when she makes Batman doubt about what he really wants. They both should have leading roles, but she should still be a criminal… an outcast like he is, only that she doesn’t respect the Law at all. She finds delight in breaking the Law, and actually believe that she does is the right thing. The movie can greatly benefit from an ambiguous characters like her.

And the effects she provokes in Batman cannot be done by any other character. After adding the Joker, I think the only way to completely depict the basics of the Bat-world is to add Catwoman. Without the ambiguity of Catwoman, I don’t think the Bat-verse will be complete.

Scarecrow and Two-face worked since both characters were linked directly to the main villains.

I do admit Catwoman being the unpredictable third party does sound interesting.

 

[The Major]

Catwoman can't be vigilante. She's a criminal. She has always been. She embraces breaking the Law and that's what's attractive with her. And a mirror of a vigilante is not another vigilante. Batman fights for the Law and society outside society and outside the Law. Catwoman also works on her own, she doesn't belong to the mob ar anything... but she breaks it. She has no respect for it and she finds it oppresive. Bruce and Selina come from very different backgrounds, and their points of view are very different. That's being a mirror.

Besides, you can't have Catwoman as a vigilante because that's a blow to Nolan's realism. Batman can do what he doesn because of his walth and his strenghth. She's not as strong as he is, she hasn't learned so many fighting styles, she doesn't have all his gadgets... she's not prepared to be a vigilante. She's agile and elusive and being a woman allows her to go under the radar... she's prepared to be a cat-burglar.

Agreed.

 

[David Rice]

The same could’ve been said about Two-Face in TDK or Scarecrow in BB.

What I find interesting about her is that she has the possibility of talking with Batman and yet appealing to Bruce Wayne. She can crack the emotional barrier given by his mask, his voice, his whole alter ego. And those are the moments when whe wee a fallible human being under that mask (just like when he beated the hel out of the Joker as soon as he mentinoed Rachel). The moments I enjoy Catwoman the most is when she makes Batman doubt about what he really wants. They both should have leading roles, but she should still be a criminal… an outcast like he is, only that she doesn’t respect the Law at all. She finds delight in breaking the Law, and actually believe that she does is the right thing. The movie can greatly benefit from an ambiguous characters like her.

And the effects she provokes in Batman cannot be done by any other character. After adding the Joker, I think the only way to completely depict the basics of the Bat-world is to add Catwoman. Without the ambiguity of Catwoman, I don’t think the Bat-verse will be complete.

Nice, I agree totally. Call Nolan.

 

[The Major]

This is a good idea... BUT The Riddler is not a murder.

He could set up situations where people get murdered. He'd still cause homicides and property damage just indirectly.

 

[David Rice]

He could set up situations where people get murdered. He'd still cause homicides and property damage just indirectly.

Good point, I just hate the Saw ideas.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

cheerz geeze . yea i could really see nygma originally being like a government agencies top code breaker, like a computer expert who can hack into anything and everything. as hes tasked with finding out who The Batman is he becomes more and more obsessed and decsends into madness. targeting Wayne Enterprises and leaving Riddles in the system trying to lure out the Bat. he could then stumble across files linking Bruce to Batman that should of been deleted. Maybe at first he just thinks Wayne Enterprises is supplying Batman with his equipment and technology thus damaging Wayne Enterprises business reputation making it far worse on a personal level to Bruce. (he don't wanna see his trust find in danger now does he! ). This could lead to Bruce/Batman becoming more obsessed with this Riddler character and making for a great cat and mouse battle of the Wits.
So much would be at stake for both characters, Riddlers vainness and pride in his ability which could be heightened due to his descent into madness, and the Wayne family name at risk of being tarnished via Wayne Enterprises involvment with Batman coming out in the open.

 

[Ziggyman]

I kind of like the idea of Catwoman or The Riddler teaming up with Scarecrow just to make themselves more intimidating...Not many people are scared of a Cat or a man with such intellectual ability...

 

[Ziggyman]

cheerz geeze . yea i could really see nygma originally being like a government agencies top code breaker, like a computer expert who can hack into anything and everything. as hes tasked with finding out who The Batman is he becomes more and more obsessed and decsends into madness. targeting Wayne Enterprises and leaving Riddles in the system trying to lure out the Bat. he could then stumble across files linking Bruce to Batman that should of been deleted. Maybe at first he just thinks Wayne Enterprises is supplying Batman with his equipment and technology thus damaging Wayne Enterprises business reputation making it far worse on a personal level to Bruce. (he don't wanna see his trust find in danger now does he! ). This could lead to Bruce/Batman becoming more obsessed with this Riddler character and making for a great cat and mouse battle of the Wits.
So much would be at stake for both characters, Riddlers vainness and pride in his ability which could be heightened due to his descent into madness, and the Wayne family name at risk of being tarnished via Wayne Enterprises involvment with Batman coming out in the open.

That's a good idea...I like how just like The Riddler becomes obsessed with Batman...Batman is becoming obsessed with The Riddler angle...Though I don't know how he can be more obsessed with anyone than he was with The Joker...

 

[Melkay]

I kind of like the idea of Catwoman or The Riddler teaming up with Scarecrow just to make themselves more intimidating...Not many people are scared of a Cat or a man with such intellectual ability...

You mean.... joining powers?

Oh no, X-men 3 all over again

 

[Ace of Knaves]

That's a good idea...I like how just like The Riddler becomes obsessed with Batman...Batman is becoming obsessed with The Riddler angle...Though I don't know how he can be more obsessed with anyone than he was with The Joker...

yea thats a good point. but thats why i thought about his good family name and company being put at risk by the riddler. i think batman could become quite obsessed about that.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

that could also play into the themes of guilt and perhaps the feelings Bruce has of trying to redeem himself in the eyes of his parents.

 

[Ziggyman]

yea thats a good point. but thats why i thought about his good family name and company being put at risk by the riddler. i think batman could become quite obsessed about that.

...That could work...

 

[Ziggyman]

that could also play into the themes of guilt and perhaps the feelings Bruce has of trying to redeem himself in the eyes of his parents.

I kind of like that...He is more worried about redeeming Bruce to his parents...Than he is to redeeming Batman to Gotham...

Maybe then Alfred could have a talk with him something like...

...Your parents are dead...Do you want Gotham to be as well...By becoming this...A criminal instead of a hero?

Then Bruce gets torn...

 

[Melkay]

Nice, I agree totally. Call Nolan.

I have called him. His answer machine says: "Hi, I'm Chris Nolan, and I swear... if I get another call asking me to do a third Bat-film, I WILL make the most faithful remake of Batman & Robin ever... bat-nipples included. Please leave your message after the signal... *bip*."

So I got second thoughts.


However, David, I repost here my crazy idea about the Riddler breaking Wayne Enterprise's security for a very, very prized thing to him. Read it, plase, I'd like to get some feedback from you....

I'm all for the idea of Riddler being an egocentric federal agent who gets obssesed with catching the Batman. He makes a fake villain alter ego called the Riddler and leave clues in crime scenes to lure Batman into his traps. His traps get bigger and more dangerous, he gets caught an expulsed from the FBI. So, then he goes after the thing his prizes the most.

What is the thing that Edward Nigma prizes most in the world? Answers. Knowledge. He wants to know every answer to every valuable question out. And as far as valuable go, knowing who Batman is ranks really high. But apart from that, knowledge is the thing that Nigma craves the most. So, what would be one thing from TDK that the Riddler would ambition the most?

The bat-sonar-computer. The thing that would help him locate (and listen to) every gothamite with a cell phone out there, just turning it on.

But Fox destroyed the computer…. Well, if one person besides Fox can fix it again, that should be the Riddler.

And if there’s someone who can get him inside Wayne Enterprises, is a former employee. A former employee that broke inside the building and found the room with the computer that was kept secret. A former employee like Victor Fries.

And maybe Freeze needs the Riddler to crack into the hospitals database and find an organ donor who matches his wife’s blood-type. That donor turns out to be a very elusive cat-burglar. And Freeze needs Riddler to fix the bat-sonar in order to find…. Selina Kyle, a.k.a. Catwoman.

And the least Batman wants is Freeze finding Selina. Or the Riddler getting his hands on that sonar.

I know, it’s a very raw way of combining the three, just wanted to know the idea sounded to others.