The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

what if...
the Mad hatter, took over the scarecrows drug operation(after he was arrested) and even continued upon some of his drug experiments, trying to develop a mind altering, mind manipulating, type drugs (not full on mind control, but, in the same kind of idea, making his victims easily suggestible, and uninhabited) instead of the mind control devices
 
Any ideas for Anarky? I dug up a bunch of old Detective Comics issues and realized I really dug the character. I just used dug in two different ways.

As a young character, at least, Anarky makes more sense to bring in than a Robin. It'd definitely be interesting.

I actually thought of anarky wearing a mask somewhat similar V for vendetta mask and using like molotovs and a large knife and an uzi, but I don't know. What if batman brings him in at the beginning of the movie.
 
I actually thought of anarky wearing a mask somewhat similar V for vendetta mask and using like molotovs and a large knife and an uzi, but I don't know. What if batman brings him in at the beginning of the movie.

Exactly. He could be a really low level V impersonator.
 
I love Anarky, V ripoff or not. I have been after Aaron Schoenke of BAT IN THE SUN to make a fanfilm with Batman and Anarky for some time now. To that end, I encourage all of you to bombard BAT IN THE SUN with emails to this end.

But I wouldn't want him as the main villain in a Batman film. Maybe a ROBIN one. I wrote one of those a long, long time ago.
 
This has probably been mentioned before, but what if Riddler was some serial killer who left riddles for clues?

Real serial killers have been known to do that...
 
This has probably been mentioned before, but what if Riddler was some serial killer who left riddles for clues?

Real serial killers have been known to do that...

That's true. And real-life serial killers have been known also for being dull.

People have mentioned it before. The most common counter-argument is this: "It's too similar to the Joker's role in TDK and not threatening/compelling enough. The Joker set the bar very very high and we gotta think outside the box if we want to even get near the bar".

And I agree with that logic.
 
That's true. And real-life serial killers have been known also for being dull.

People have mentioned it before. The most common counter-argument is this: "It's too similar to the Joker's role in TDK and not threatening/compelling enough. The Joker set the bar very very high and we gotta think outside the box if we want to even get near the bar".

And I agree with that logic.

Ever taken studied in the psychology field? The minds of killers are actually quite chaotic and, as sick as this may sound, interesting. You'd be shocked at what you'd find if you studied up on them.

Use of the word "dull" is quite the opposite of what they can really be.

However, I would like to see The Riddler- serial killer or not- as different from other serial killers... That's what would make him The Riddler and a supervillain. The reason we take such interest in fictional characters, especially in Batman's rogues gallery, is because they're not ordinary criminals. The reason characters like Zsasz and Black Mask don't receive much attention is that they're nothing special compared to the likes of The Joker, The Riddler, Freeze, etc. They don't have significant motives like the other Batman villains do, nor are they that much of a departure from real life.

Zsasz's predominant trademark is the carvings in his own skin, and Black Mask's is really just his ruthless, chatoic nature... Both of which can most likely be found with a number of past serial killers (especially Black Mask's). Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the characters to any extent, but they're just not... "Special."

Many of the writing books I've read say, specificall, that if you're going to slack on a main character in a book, movie, comic, etc., make sure it's your hero and not your villain, because a good villain with a mediocre hero can drive and motivate the story so much more than a mediocre villain can with a great hero. This is probably the most true for this upcoming film. Batman is a great character, but he's made on of the best because of his rogues gallery, and I think Nolan recognizes this and will take extreme care in choosing his characters and his interpretations of these characters.
 
Ever taken studied in the psychology field? The minds of killers are actually quite chaotic and, as sick as this may sound, interesting. You'd be shocked at what you'd find if you studied up on them.

Use of the word "dull" is quite the opposite of what they can really be.

You seem like a very impressionable guy. Are you talking about the figure of the serial killer, the myth or real serial killers themselves? Some of the most renowned ones were actualyl pretty uninteresting and only craved in the overblown attention they could obtain from the media. Do you want interesting minds? Think about anarcho-primitivists or islamic suicide bombers. Those are reasonings that go against some of the most basic human instincts. They are people governed by the mind, people with a message. Serial killers don't have messages. Terrorists do. And so far every Batman villain done by Nolan has had a message.

However, I would like to see The Riddler- serial killer or not- as different from other serial killers... That's what would make him The Riddler and a supervillain. The reason we take such interest in fictional characters, especially in Batman's rogues gallery, is because they're not ordinary criminals. The reason characters like Zsasz and Black Mask don't receive much attention is that they're nothing special compared to the likes of The Joker, The Riddler, Freeze, etc. They don't have significant motives like the other Batman villains do, nor are they that much of a departure from real life.

I agree, but whatever Riddler's motivation is, it must stay true to the original source. And the idea of The Riddler attacking the city to spread some ideology is not true to the character... not to mention it has already been done in TDK with the Joker.

Zsasz's predominant trademark is the carvings in his own skin, and Black Mask's is really just his ruthless, chatoic nature... Both of which can most likely be found with a number of past serial killers (especially Black Mask's). Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the characters to any extent, but they're just not... "Special."

Many of the writing books I've read say, specificall, that if you're going to slack on a main character in a book, movie, comic, etc., make sure it's your hero and not your villain, because a good villain with a mediocre hero can drive and motivate the story so much more than a mediocre villain can with a great hero. This is probably the most true for this upcoming film. Batman is a great character, but he's made on of the best because of his rogues gallery, and I think Nolan recognizes this and will take extreme care in choosing his characters and his interpretations of these characters.

I would advice on strengthening the role of Batman much more. This movie must be about him and his new situation, and the villain shouldn't be there except that to put more pressure (thematically and plot-wise) into the story. That's it.

But if you want to discuss our differences in how should be a compelling take on those villains, then I suggest you click the link in my signature. Look for the Rilddler poster and tell your opinion.

Waiting to hear some feedback from you...
 
You seem like a very impressionable guy. Are you talking about the figure of the serial killer, the myth or real serial killers themselves? Some of the most renowned ones were actualyl pretty uninteresting and only craved in the overblown attention they could obtain from the media. Do you want interesting minds? Think about anarcho-primitivists or islamic suicide bombers. Those are reasonings that go against some of the most basic human instincts. They are people governed by the mind, people with a message. Serial killers don't have messages. Terrorists do. And so far every Batman villain done by Nolan has had a message. For starters, what of what I said makes me seem impressionable?

I'm not doubting that terrorists and such can be more interesting- as a matter of fact, I'd support that statement. It's just that serial killers have a different mindset- they kill for sport, more times than not, which also goes against basic human instinct. It's hard to look into the minds of those who differ from the social norm and call them "dull." The serial killer could be a good approach, although I won't ever deny that there are always other options. I'm not one of those guys who thinks that there is one way to do everything, so I only see the serial killer take on The Riddler as one of many possibilities that could work well.

As for the villains having a message, Two-Face didn't. He wasn't trying to make a dent in Gotham, he was simply taking revenge on those who were involved with Rachel's death as well as his own attempted murder. He didn't really have a "greater 'good'" that he was fighting for, he was out for revenge. The take worked incredibly well, in my opinion, and is one of the highest points of the story.

I agree, but whatever Riddler's motivation is, it must stay true to the original source. And the idea of The Riddler attacking the city to spread some ideology is not true to the character... not to mention it has already been done in TDK with the Joker. I definitely agree, which is why I could see him pulling a serial killer approach. The only "message" he would have to spread is that he believes he's better than everyone else, and killing others is a commonly used expression of dominance in all animals. With that in mind, I could definitely see The Riddler killing others simply to show that he can, and in his mind, because he's the best.


I would advice on strengthening the role of Batman much more. This movie must be about him and his new situation, and the villain shouldn't be there except that to put more pressure (thematically and plot-wise) into the story. That's it. I agree and have the exact same expectations for Batman 3, but I was simply speaking on that I'm hearing a lot of people saying they want Black Mask, which I feel would weaken the story because he's not a very strong character. Those comments weren't really targeted at you.

But if you want to discuss our differences in how should be a compelling take on those villains, then I suggest you click the link in my signature. Look for the Rilddler poster and tell your opinion. I will check that out as soon as I'm done with this post, and get back to you.

Waiting to hear some feedback from you...

...
 
And yes, after reading your Riddler link, I do agree in that it would be a pretty good interpretation of the character. As I said, I'm not all for him being a serial killer, but I'm also not saying I'd be against it at all. I want to see how the rest of the movie is going to be worked out before I make any definite decisions as to what The Riddler should be like from all angles.

I believe I have my own quick "synopsis" of the layout of the next film somewhere in this thread, but I'd have to find it. I don't recall my take on The Riddler in it, but I'll see if I can find it and post it here.
 
I don't particulary like Riddler as a serial killer. He shouldn't be physical atall untill he has been made to look a fool or has been shown the mistakes of his plan. I would imagen him as a highly intelligent geeky sorta person, but has a simmering undercurrant of rage beneath that cold, calculating exterior. He should only ever lash out violently when he has no other choice and has been humiliated. Thats how i see Riddler anyway.
 
Here was my full synopsis:

For Batman 3, I could kind of see it going this way- it's obviously open for changes, as it's kind of a rough idea... I would edit this a lot more to make everything tie together much more cleanly if I were to ever completely write it out:

The few remaining mobsters left from the mobs from The Dark Knight are trying to rebuild their alliances and power that they lost due to The Joker's path of destruction and Batman's interference. They rebuild their banks, businesses, crime rings, etc., and slowly begin to regain their lost hold on Gotham's underworld.

However, The Joker's men seem to have united again- clown masks and all- to try to steal from the mobs yet again- only this time, the robberies are happening much more quickly... First, the businesses, then the banks, then attacks on the crime rings themselves. However, instead of death threats, clues are being left as to just who is stealing from them... This time, it turns out that it's not The Joker, but instead, The Riddler.

The Riddler/Edward Nashton: Drop the Nygma, as I just don't see it fitting the character in this series... Seems too '60s Batman for me. A narcissistic sociopath who believes himself to be the "better class of criminal." So narcissistic, that while he's aware that he's committing crimes, he sees his actions as a form of Justice- and here are where the parallels to Batman can begin to be drawn (much as Joker tried to compare himself to Batman in TDK). Both are trying to take down crime in unethical ways. Batman may even go so far as to start becoming discouraged yet again from crime fighting.
However, someone on the inside of Riddler's operations is stealing from him: enter Catwoman:

Catwoman/Selina Kyle: A cat burglar working for The Riddler as her means of getting money, with plans to break off on her own eventually. However, she is not only stealing for her own good, she claims to be looking for something more (which would turn out to be traces of family links within the Falcone family's mafia- hinting at the When In Rome storyline). Throughout the film, she becomes more and more distraught with not having any family or loved ones to turn to, while at the same time, refuses to let anyone into her personal life (giving her that cocky, hard-to-get personality she has in the comics)... Namingly Bruce Wayne.

The story behind Bruce and Selina/Batman and Catwoman could pan out to the old phrase, "Is it better to have loved and lost, or to have never loved at all?" Basically, Bruce doesn't understand Selina's tendencies to avoid his closeness- which she does because of a horrible childhood, in which she had no true family nor any true love.

On the other hand, Bruce finds out about Rachel's plan to marry Harvey, which drives him to anger, which in turn puts Batman into an even worse public eye than he was before (after being blamed for the murders Two-Face committed). Bruce tries to move on to Selina (perhaps with anger toward Rachel in mind, treating the situation almost as if Rachel were alive and would physically notice if Bruce and Selina were together). It would come around to Bruce admitting his feelings toward Rachel to Selina, where Selina would lash out at Bruce for having had the ability to love and be loved before, and that he should have cherished Rachel for what she was (much like family) rather than being angry at her for wanting a happy life.

-Back to the crime aspect- The mob needs help to combat the robberies and the attacks at their power, so they seek to hire a mastermind to help combat The Riddler, Batman, and Catwoman. Here's where the next "freak" would come in:

Here, I could go one of three ways: Bane, Mr. Freeze, or Black Mask. My choice would be Freeze. Here's my interpretation:

Mr. Freeze/Victor Fries:A very despressed scientist who hangs on the edge of sanity due to what's happened to his wife, Nora, who has fallen terminally ill. He has put her in a cryogenic stasis to keep her alive while he finds the cure for her disease (sound familiar?), and sees that the mob can help him get the means to do so, under a few stipulations, however. He will only provide his resources to get the money back- he will not harm, maim, or kill others (particularly because he's living the experience of losing a loved on, and does not wish that on others). As for his armor, the best way I could see it happening is that he has locked himself in a cooled suit that keeps him cold constantly, as "punishment" for and a "reminder" of what his wife is going through (keep in mind, he's not thinking straight, and is blaming himself for his wife falling ill, much as many spouses would if his/her wife/husband were dying). As for the gun, I don't know much about science, but I could see it being a gun that pours liquid nitrogen, which freezes his targets on contact (not to a point that would kill living beings, only enough to make it very hard and uncomfortable for them to move).

The mob sees Freeze won't go the full nine yards against Batman as they would want him to (and see him as the only apparently capable person of doing so), so they set up a situation in which Batman and Freeze would be drawn to Nora's location, in which Nora would be killed and Freeze would believe Batman to be responsible (yet, as any loved one would and as I previously stated Freeze did, he finds himself responsible for, again, not being able to save Nora). Here is where the overall theme of the movie comes in, redemption.

Batman wants redemption for Gotham, Harvey, and maybe most of all, Rachel (when he realizes that his head is in the wrong place about her). The mob wants redemption for themselves, and seeks a regain in power. Selina wants to redeem herself for whatever reason it was that "her family didn't love her enough." Freeze wants redemption for Nora's death, by killing Batman- while destroying every bit of Gotham if that's what it takes to get his hands on Batman.

Honestly, even if the movie were to be done this way (not that Nolan would take the idea), I could see the FBI agent take on it. I was never a huge advocate for the FBI agent take, but I do like it nonetheless.
 
Yea i think the most realistic way to have Riddler is as a F.B.I or other shady government agent tasked with finding Batman. The more he investigates the case the more obsessed he gets with it, slipping slowly into madness. Then maybe some collegues could grow suspicious, he obviously can't have anyone get in the way of solving the greatest riddle of them all so he puts his fellow agents in dangerous situations to lure out the Batman.
 
Here was my full synopsis:

Honestly, even if the movie were to be done this way (not that Nolan would take the idea), I could see the FBI agent take on it. I was never a huge advocate for the FBI agent take, but I do like it nonetheless.

So we basically fancy the three same villains.
 
So we basically fancy the three same villains.

If it's Catwoman and Freeze you're after, then yes :p haha.
I just see that being the best possible combination for a book-end to this trilogy, should it end with Batman 3. I also spoke in another forum on the idea that Selina could actually be the Holiday Killer of some sort, so it would add even more dynamic to the film. Everyone may think it was The Riddler (including the audience) until the end, when it's revealed to be Selina.
It could work very well to tie the When In Rome storyline into this series, in a sense,
seeing as how she was trying to find out who her father was in When In Rome, in Batman 3 she could instead be killing those who took over and destroyed her supposed father's empire.

I know Selina doesn't do that in the comics, but I think it would solidify her as the villainous love interest Bruce had early on (before Catwoman became good). Plus, her "Cat Burglar" persona of Catwoman could work as a cover to her "Holiday Killer" persona, and the blame could be shifted to The Riddler.
 
Exactly. He could be a really low level V impersonator.

I don't want him to be anything like V...while the characters are similar in some ways...well hell, let me show you guys something...it's sort of an updated Anarky figure I got someone to make for me...see what you think. I could really see this type of Anarky being used in Nolan's universe.

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What about Doodlebug? A crappy artist with delusions of grandeur who doesn't get enough attention, so he starts killing people and using their blood to create his "masterpieces". I think he could suit Nolans Bat-verse quite well
 
I'm sure that this has already been posted, but whatever.

Bane: South-American mercenary who has come to Gotham to confront Batman.
 
Bane:
I could see Bane being sort of a mirror of Batman, only he is like what Batman could become if he isn't careful. I like the idea of Bane as a mercenary too. I don't see them using the Venom/steriods angle. He is like Batman, insanely well trained and always pushing himself. He could even try to teach (and taunt) Batman while fighting him. Telling Batman how he (Bane) became such a great fighter. And how Batman continues to let his guard down. Maybe even say stuff outloud like, "If I shift may weight onto my left foot it will throw your attack off balance." Acting like he is so good Batman can't even avoid messing up after Bane points it out. I also like the idea that he is like a Batman from South America. Showing that you don't have to be American or white to be like Batman.

Riddler:
I see the Riddler being a narcissistic criminal, psychopathic even, who taunts the cops of Gothem with his next crimes and challenges them to get him. I also see him setting his sights on Batman mainly, once Batman gets involved, no other opponant will do for him after that. He isn't out to prove anything like the Joker (about society). He just wants to show the everyone that HE is smarter than Batman and the Gothem police.
Maybe even once he is caught GPD and Batman have an impossible time trying to convict him of anything, since nothing can lead back to him.

Poison Ivy:
(Already mentioned this earlier) Pamela Isely is a Environmental Terrorist who suffers from severe mental problems. She has delusions that she is Mother Earth brought to life to wipe out all mankind for their crimes against her and her plants and animals. Pamela was once a gifted biologist and genetisist. She uses genetically altered plants and poisons as her weapons. She doesn't make them living or monsters or anything, she just makes them biohazadous to people.

CatWoman:
Selina Kyle is a thrill seeker. She steals for the thrill of it. Maybe she is a rich woman who has grown board of the rich life. She is another mirror of what Batman could become if he started using the Batman as a way to get thrills or fun. She is almost as well trained as Batman, almost.

Harley Quinn:
Although Joker can't return, I could see him still effecting Gothem and Batman. Dr. Harley Quinzel was a Psychiatrist at Gothem that Joker was able to manipulate and warp (just like the cartoon. Only in the movie she acts as his hands outside of Arkham.

Penguin:
I didn't make this one up, I saw it on the Psychology of Batman.
Penguin is a mirror of Bruce Wayne. He is what Bruce could become if he indulged in the money he has. Or the person he could have become if he let the money effect him. The Penguin is someone who indulges in money, in the rich life. Surroudning himself with money, women, and the finest things he can buy. (It said something like that.)
My idea is that Penguin is a legitimate owner of a Nightclub in Gothem, while secretly being one of its most powerful, or most ruthless, Crime Lords. He indulges in everything, and has very expensive tastes.

Talia al Ghul:
She had to work her way up, fighting and proving herself, but she is now the head of her late Father's Crime Syndicate. She is the illegitimate daughter of Ras al Ghul (batman begins). When she becomes the new head of the Crime Syndicate she keeps her father's identity and calls herlself Ras al Ghul and everyone pretends that Ras is alive. They even continue to use a decoy Ras too. Maybe the movie makes you think that Ras is back from the dead, maybe even using some story about a Lazurus Pit. It could also be revealed that the Ras that Bruce met wasn't the original Ras either. Ras is just the title or figurehead of the Crime Syndicate.
Talia goes back to Gothem to finish what her father started, and kill the "Batman" who killed her father. But once she meets him she sees what her father sees in him and also she falls in love with him.

I'll think up some more later.
 
another idea is what villains could be paired up easily..interms of having one pulling the strings for the other..ifor exampe the riddler he could be having other characters or lesser know villains doing things for him in attempts to keep his identity secret..kind of like in batman begins with Raz and Scarecrow
 
Talia al Ghul:
She had to work her way up, fighting and proving herself, but she is now the head of her late Father's Crime Syndicate. She is the illegitimate daughter of Ras al Ghul (batman begins). When she becomes the new head of the Crime Syndicate she keeps her father's identity and calls herlself Ras al Ghul and everyone pretends that Ras is alive. They even continue to use a decoy Ras too. Maybe the movie makes you think that Ras is back from the dead, maybe even using some story about a Lazurus Pit. It could also be revealed that the Ras that Bruce met wasn't the original Ras either. Ras is just the title or figurehead of the Crime Syndicate.
Talia goes back to Gothem to finish what her father started, and kill the "Batman" who killed her father. But once she meets him she sees what her father sees in him and also she falls in love with him.

I'll think up some more later.

I don't mean to be petulant but The League isn't a crime sydnicate, it's kind of the exact opposite.
 
I didn't remember the name of his organization. But you got what I meant, so what do you think of the idea?
 

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