The Dark Knight Rises Ideas For Incorporating Characters Into the Nolanverse

[Alex Logan]

I cant post it on here. Its too big.

You could post it in many parts.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I totally agree except I thought Batman Begins was a better film and a better Batman film.

The third act was too weak for me to consider BB a better film than TDK. And it's not like Batman has never had doubts before, heck, just look at Infinite Crisis. He has a momentary panic attack and keeps saying "I wish I could just start over."

I don't think TDK was out of character for him at all. It was a good arc for Bruce.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Why people keep saying that the third act of Begins was weak? 2/3rds of the film are spent on Batman's origins, it was amazing that Nolan could fit a villain story in the last part of the film. I wouldnt have thought it possible.
But he tied it with Ras and the beginning of the film so it all made sense. It was great.

On which film was better:
TDK was deeper, but
1) lacked the charisma of BB
2) Batman wasnt the central character until Gordon's speech where they suddenly remembered him
3) BB was just a lot more enjoyable to watch. I'd easily rewatch it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Why people keep saying that the third act of Begins was weak? 2/3rds of the film are spent on Batman's origins, it was amazing that Nolan could fit a villain story in the last part of the film. I wouldnt have thought it possible.
But he tied it with Ras and the beginning of the film so it all made sense. It was great.

On which film was better:
TDK was deeper, but
1) lacked the charisma of BB
2) Batman wasnt the central character until Gordon's speech where they suddenly remembered him
3) BB was just a lot more enjoyable to watch. I'd easily rewatch it.

The microwave emitter was a fairly faulty plan to begin with. I find it kind of odd that Ras, while having the manpower to steal the emitter, hijack Gotham and drive it to the spot he needs to in order to send Gotham into chaos...would have just say...jacked a nuke, or placed multiple large scale explosives around the city and blow the place to hell. A lot easier to accomplish and a lot harder to stop.

Also, we can get into the whole argument about how the emitter actually functions and how it seems to not effect people, but I think that's been explored enough.

The under usage of Scarecrow and his absolutely horrible "defeat" at the hands of Rachel.

(These didn't bother me as much but are still frequently brought up)
*Gordon in the Batmobile
*Rachel's rather contradictory refusal of Bruce.

and then (and this isn't just a third act thing)

The fights weren't filmed very well. They weren't as bad as people make them out, but even at best they're still choppier than the fights in Bourne.

And I would completely disagree that Batman wasn't the focus of TDK. Joker's entire purpose was to attack Batman. All his antics were focused towards Batman. All the biggest tension moments (besides the boat scene) in the movie, were centered around Batman and his choices. (Will he give himself up? Will he pick Rachel or Dent to save?)

The central character arc was focused on Batman, on Bruce's desire to finally be able to hang up the cowl, and Joker showing him he can't.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The microwave emitter was a fairly faulty plan to begin with. I find it kind of odd that Ras, while having the manpower to steal the emitter, hijack Gotham and drive it to the spot he needs to in order to send Gotham into chaos...would have just say...jacked a nuke, or placed multiple large scale explosives around the city and blow the place to hell. A lot easier to accomplish and a lot harder to stop.

Also, we can get into the whole argument about how the emitter actually functions and how it seems to not effect people, but I think that's been explored enough.

The under usage of Scarecrow and his absolutely horrible "defeat" at the hands of Rachel.

(These didn't bother me as much but are still frequently brought up)
*Gordon in the Batmobile
*Rachel's rather contradictory refusal of Bruce.

and then (and this isn't just a third act thing)

The fights weren't filmed very well. They weren't as bad as people make them out, but even at best they're still choppier than the fights in Bourne.

And I would completely disagree that Batman wasn't the focus of TDK. Joker's entire purpose was to attack Batman. All his antics were focused towards Batman. All the biggest tension moments (besides the boat scene) in the movie, were centered around Batman and his choices. (Will he give himself up? Will he pick Rachel or Dent to save?)

The central character arc was focused on Batman, on Bruce's desire to finally be able to hang up the cowl, and Joker showing him he can't.

Good points. About the emitter, its a movie. Even if Ras had jacked a nuke, there would still be an easier solution that someone would come up with. Then, remember that he didnt want to annihilate the city, just destroy it to a certain degree that it would allow it to make a clean start.
As for the emitter being unrealistic, well... its a batman film. In real life Batman would have been dead in a week. It wasnt all that farfetched.

Scarecrow's defeat was lame indeed. Batman should have been the one to take him out, even if it was easily.

Rachel's refusal was... odd... but understandable. She wanted Bruce to get off his ass and stop being irresponsible but being a vigilante is taking it too far.
And finally, the fights scenes were bad, but the general action was great (the tumbler chase scene, the majestic shots of the monorail crossing Gotham, etc). The bad fights were a trivial flaw if you ask me.

TDK's Prewitt building scene, as well as the TwoFace showdown in the worst set i have ever seen were worse than Begin's third act.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Good points. About the emitter, its a movie. Even if Ras had jacked a nuke, there would still be an easier solution that someone would come up with. Then, remember that he didnt want to annihilate the city, just destroy it to a certain degree that it would allow it to make a clean start.
As for the emitter being unrealistic, well... its a batman film. In real life Batman would have been dead in a week. It wasnt all that farfetched.

Scarecrow's defeat was lame indeed. Batman should have been the one to take him out, even if it was easily.

Rachel's refusal was... odd... but understandable. She wanted Bruce to get off his ass and stop being irresponsible but being a vigilante is taking it too far.
And finally, the fights scenes were bad, but the general action was great (the tumbler chase scene, the majestic shots of the monorail crossing Gotham, etc). The bad fights were a trivial flaw if you ask me.

TDK's Prewitt building scene, as well as the TwoFace showdown in the worst set i have ever seen were worse than Begin's third act.

I agree with that, and I'm actually one of those fans that gets tired about hearing how "realistic" everything is in Nolan's films, when really, they're not, he just does a great job of grounding them.

I actually loved the Prewitt Building scene, Batman simultaneous taking out the Swat, protecting the false hostages, and taking out the real goons was awesome to watch, and when you combine that with the tension of the boats, it was just an amazing scene.

I also thought the Two-Face scene at the end was great as well. Again, another amazingly beautiful tense scene, however, it just paled in comparison with the tension of the ferries before it. Had it come before (or have been saved for the next movie) I think it would have been fine, but it's hard to live up to it when you have, (arguably) one of the best tension based scenes in comic movie history right before you.

 

[Mr. Earle]

I agree with that, and I'm actually one of those fans that gets tired about hearing how "realistic" everything is in Nolan's films, when really, they're not, he just does a great job of grounding them.

I actually loved the Prewitt Building scene, Batman simultaneous taking out the Swat, protecting the false hostages, and taking out the real goons was awesome to watch, and when you combine that with the tension of the boats, it was just an amazing scene.

I also thought the Two-Face scene at the end was great as well. Again, another amazingly beautiful tense scene, however, it just paled in comparison with the tension of the ferries before it. Had it come before (or have been saved for the next movie) I think it would have been fine, but it's hard to live up to it when you have, (arguably) one of the best tension based scenes in comic movie history right before you.

The Prewitt building scene was difficult to follow most of the time. But it was good yeah.
I didnt particularly like the TwoFace showdown because of the lame set it happened (was that Nolan's basement? For christ's sake with a budget like theirs it should have been better) and the fact that Batman pushed Dent to his death.

 

[Joe_Kerr]

I sincerely doubt that Nolan would go for Black Mask, without a recognisable 2nd villain. Having two previously unseen villains worked for Begins, because it allowed it to be a movie about Bruce Wayne and Batman (the Burton/Schumacher movies stumbled as Batman became a supporting character at times), so if he went that way, it's literally fair game for any other villain to step in and fill out the cast.

The cast of the next film definitely needs a female element and Talia certainly fits the bill. She's a perfect foil to Bruce (in the same way that Selina often is), yet she is also a less recognisable villain (Warner will have a fit if Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, Freeze or Poison Ivy aren't in it somewhere - they're simply that cowardly/cautious (delete as appropriate)). Harley Quinn has too many connections to the Joker to be a main villain (it'll basically be TDK all over again), and unless they recast, I doubt that storyline will make it to the big screen. The grandiosity of The Dark Knight was something that really drew me in: quite simply it was a film about Gotham City as a whole. The politics, the criminals, the high society, the working joe, the law and the media all had their moment of fame in that picture and whilst I want to see an expansion of that in the next film, I would prefer more of a character piece, with focus on what makes Bruce and his opposing villain tick. This is why I think The Riddler is a no-brainer. We simply haven't seen a version of The Riddler on-screen that delves into his dark upbringing (Gorshwin, Carrey and the animated versions have all been too whimsical for my liking). I want Edward Nygma, dark and dirty secrets intact.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I don't know how I did, but double post

 

[Infinity9999x]

The Prewitt building scene was difficult to follow most of the time. But it was good yeah.
I didnt particularly like the TwoFace showdown because of the lame set it happened (was that Nolan's basement? For christ's sake with a budget like theirs it should have been better) and the fact that Batman pushed Dent to his death.

It wasn't the most interesting set piece, but it was supposed to be the building that rachel was blown up in, so I don't think it was supposed to look very nice.

However, I agree about Two Face dying. I was just mad from the standpoint that they didn't save the character for a 3rd movie. But I've been kind of iffy on the whole them of "no killing" Nolan has established, because this is the second movie in a row where Batman has essentially killed someone. The Ras thing never sat very well with me in the first movie either.

 

[BestGirl]

The microwave emitter was a fairly faulty plan to begin with. I find it kind of odd that Ras, while having the manpower to steal the emitter, hijack Gotham and drive it to the spot he needs to in order to send Gotham into chaos...would have just say...jacked a nuke, or placed multiple large scale explosives around the city and blow the place to hell. A lot easier to accomplish and a lot harder to stop.

Well, the flowers that create fear toxin grew nearby the LOS headquarters so Ra's probably couldn't resist using them. Plus, he may have been trying to send a message: Gotham wasn't destroyed by outsiders so much as it tore itself apart through its own fear.

 

[returntovoid]

Aside from the underusage of Scarecrow, Rachel Dawes character and badly choreographed fight scenes.

I thought Batman Begins was the best Batman film.

But I've been kind of iffy on the whole them of "no killing" Nolan has established, because this is the second movie in a row where Batman has essentially killed someone.

I don't think the "no killing code" is to be taken extremely, I think it's more of a not killing intentionally code. Batman was saving Gordon's son and in doing that action, it resulted in Two-Face's death hence some actions have consequences.

As for leaving Ra's Al Ghul to die, he saved him from the fire in the temple in the beginning so after finding out that Ducard is Al Ghul, I think he regretted saving him, so by leaving him to die in the train, he didn't give him a second chance.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

It wasn't the most interesting set piece, but it was supposed to be the building that rachel was blown up in, so I don't think it was supposed to look very nice.

However, I agree about Two Face dying. I was just mad from the standpoint that they didn't save the character for a 3rd movie. But I've been kind of iffy on the whole them of "no killing" Nolan has established, because this is the second movie in a row where Batman has essentially killed someone. The Ras thing never sat very well with me in the first movie either.

I think Nolan had done these things for a reason. I think we'll see that explored in the third movie. Maybe Bruce will fall into depression from the guilt of not saving Rachel and Harvey. I think guilt will play a major role in the third, sorta coming full circle from Begins when Bruce felt guilty over his parents deaths.

 

[Rodrigo90]

 

[Rodrigo90]

I would like Derek Mears as either Bane. Killer Croc or Amygdala

 

[Mr. Earle]

I dont care for Dent's death. There are more characters out there to be explored, plus it allowed the whole batman taking the blame ending. But i do care about the way it happened. That batman shoved him to his death. And choosing to leave Ras to his fate was so unheroic. Ras could simply have opted not to accept Bruce's help (because he can always resurrect for all we know).

 

[ReallyCoolGuy]

Well, the flowers that create fear toxin grew nearby the LOS headquarters so Ra's probably couldn't resist using them. Plus, he may have been trying to send a message: Gotham wasn't destroyed by outsiders so much as it tore itself apart through its own fear.

Yes, ma'am.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I dont care for Dent's death. There are more characters out there to be explored, plus it allowed the whole batman taking the blame ending. But i do care about the way it happened. That batman shoved him to his death. And choosing to leave Ras to his fate was so unheroic. Ras could simply have opted not to accept Bruce's help (because he can always resurrect for all we know).

Two Face didn't bother me as much as Ras, because I don't think Batman was intentionally trying to kill Harvey, as it was shown, obviously it's was a fall that it was possible to survive from, but it's implied that Harvey landed in an awkward way (on his neck) and it killed him.

Ras though...that's a tough one. It's something I've more or less been on the fence about for a while. I'll watch it some times and it won't bother me, and then sometimes it will. Regardless, Batman did kill him. You can be tried in court for standing by and watching someone die if it was easily within your power to save them.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Ras though...that's a tough one. It's something I've more or less been on the fence about for a while. I'll watch it some times and it won't bother me, and then sometimes it will. Regardless, Batman did kill him. You can be tried in court for standing by and watching someone die if it was easily within your power to save them.

But you have to prove that batman was there, I mean do you really think Gordon would rat him out.

 

[Infinity9999x]

But you have to prove that batman was there, I mean do you really think Gordon would rat him out.

Oh of course not, I was just stating that to show that he did kill Ras, as far as the law is concerned.

Not to mention the how many Ninja he may have blown up in the beginning of the movie. Still, it doesn't ruin the movie for me, but they are small snags in the ideology of the character as he's presented in the movies.

 

[The Guard]

You can be tried in court for standing by and watching someone die if it was easily within your power to save them.

"Easily" is sort of relative in that situation.

What Batman was doing in fighting Ra's was, by that point, pretty much self defense, wasn't it? There was no "easy way" to save Ra's by any reasonable standard, which I would imagine is what courts would use. I just wish Batman had given Ra's the chance and made the offer, even knowing how difficult it would have been to save him. That would have been amazing. You could have even kept the "I won't kill you...but I don't have to save you", and followed it with something else between them.

 

[ViciousValentin]

Version 8

Bruce will struggle hard with the consequences of being Batman and will vow to give up, he must first replace Harvey Dent himself or find someone that can do it and support them both as Wayne and as Batman. Bruce begins to shift more of his focus on cleaning up Gotham from a humanitarian angle using Wayne Enterprises and his wealth to fight the good fight in the public.(Similar to his father Thomas Wayne) Things take a turn for the worse when Wayne Enterprises is accused of violating labor laws and economic scandal. Bruce will have the fight of his life as he is challenged as both Batman and Bruce Wayne by Roman Sionis a.k.a. Black Mask and his False Face Society a ruthless gang of disfigured members who have all been tortured and brainwashed and control the illegal crime activity in Gotham City. As well as the fact the Batman is now public enemy number one. Reese, The employee from TDK who found blueprints for Tumbler (BATMOBILE) is found murdered, and Batman is framed, thought to be trying to protect his identity. This leads to an even greater pressure from the city for Gordon to capture Batman and Gordon himself now doesn’t know who to trust, even Batman himself.

A new and mysterious female assistant D.A. emerges Talia Head and sparks the interest of Bruce Wayne and she is secretly Talia al Ghul (Despite not appearing in Batman Begins, where Ra's al Ghul is the main villain, she is mentioned in the novelization when Ra's writes to his daughter in Switzerland and al Ghul's character biography in the DVD special features.) She is a complex character, not quite heroine nor villainess but more of an anti-hero. Talia has brought a team of the remaining League of Shadows Warriors to Gotham City to hunt down the Batman and force him to join them or pay for her father’s death. The League is fully aware that the city has been under siege from the Black Mask and his False Face Society for years.

The Black Mask is an older man, very rich, and a rogue member of the league of shadows. After leaving the League he formed the False Face Society whose first member was the Joker. Black Mask's most important weapons are fear and intimidation. He is known for his brutal and sadistic torture techniques, especially on the face. He sees the Joker’s purpose was served as he drove the Batman from hero to vigilante in the general public eye, and needs to dispose of the Joker before his identity is revealed. He recants on his offer to the Joker and plans his assassination while in Arkham. The Black Mask is secretly also a wealthy business man and has the pull to push around Bruce Wayne and also fabricate documents and information. His Intel is unparalleled, he nearly completes a hostile takeover of Wayne Enterprises, and he is a master criminal strategist with vast amount of resources. He was the crime lord of Gotham city for many years as an undercover businessman and was the original target of Ras al Ghul and the League of Shadows. The Scarecrow is forced to give up his secret on how to weaponize the Blue Flowers to the False Face Society and Black Mask also uses his connections to gather information on his enemies, and then hits them at their weak points, such as family and friends. (ties to Thomas Wayne, and his death) The Black Mask infiltrates Wayne Enterprises and in an attempt to take over the building and kill Lucious Fox, who he sees as the brains of the executive board. Black Mask sets up and commits a series of murders designed to frame Batman. This plan is complicated by the escape of Joker. Joker finds and seeks revenge on the Black Mask exposing his true identity and scarring him in the process. The False Face Society and the League of Shadows Hunters led by Talia go to war in the streets of Gotham.

Gordon discovers he must find a way to get info out of the Joker, while in Arkham he is receiving treatment from a new doctor Dr. Harleen Quinzel who turns out to be an operative of the Black Mask. The Black Mask is determined to kill the Joker to conceal his identity but the operative does a double cross, and frees the Joker. He then kidnaps Commissioner Gordon and taunts him with enlarged photographs of his wounded (family member), in an attempt to prove that any normal man can go insane after having "one really bad day." The Joker ridicules him as an example of "the average man," a naïve weakling doomed to insanity. Again giving an explanation of the scars on his face to Gordon with a knife pressed to the inside of the Commissioner’s mouth "something like that happened to me you know...I'm not quite sure what it was. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" The Joker knowing the true identity of Black Mask and his intent on taking over Wayne Enterprises destroys the Wayne tower to announce to Gotham that he is again free and that terror has returned to Gotham.

Climax would be Joker now destroying what’s left of the mob and taking over the reins of The False Face Society. He holds the city for ransom by revealing he has a plan to detonate another bomb similar to what destroys Wayne enterprises.

Batman has to take down False Face Society and stop the Joker while struggling with the conflict of continuing his life as both Batman and Bruce Wayne or accepting the offer from Talia who is determined to have Bruce lead The League of Shadows. Talia ends up stepping in front of bullet meant for Batman as her heart has changed after she has witnessed all the destruction caused by her own fathers hand and that of their followers.

By the end of the movie the citizens of Gotham realize that Batman is the only one who can level the playing field against the powers of the criminally insane and the corrupt powers that be in Gotham City.

 

[sabetoonth]

hres my take on ras death, first of all did he try to scape the train? no, would he have acfepted help? no im also sensing a theme of killing he guy who goesfrom feind to enemy

 

[CJ]

The whole 'i wont kill you, but don't have to save you' thing was simply a reference to earlier in the film. Batman saved Ras, but Ras came back and tried to kill him and destroy Gotham, Batman realized this and decided 'I don't have to save you this time. You got yourself into this mess, you get yourself out. Later.'

 

[sabetoonth]

when ever i read the word later, i hear bill hader as willem defoe going laterz, but yeah, u could see it that way