"Intervention" Episode 12 Discussion Thread

[Slick]

I loved the little reunion with the parker family.

 

[Anwar]

To be honest, I was kind of hoping that they might first show a flashback of little Peter with his mom and dad and then go forward to Ben, I mean it can't hurt to have Peter remember his parents a little.

But that would have dragged too much I guess.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

i don't care what any of you say, that was one of the gnarlyest transformations of a character ever..

 

[Gold Samurai]

I liked that they lifted quite a few scenes from spider-man 1 and 2. I wonder what scenes will be emulated next week in the season finale from "spider-man 3" Maybe the construction site fight?

Then the car

 

[Shmoil]

While I thought that this was the best handling of the Black suit saga, I was bored by the "animated version of the movie" flashback, and thought that a lot of the episode lacked substance. Also, I still think that Eddie's getting pissed off was a little too extreme for the character. In TAS and the comic it made sense, him being this older guy already set in a life; but for a guy who was barely paying for college anyway, it seems anything could have made him slip, and he didn't seem like the same character as the "cool, "bro"" guy that we had seen earlier.

I loved Spidey's turning dark, and that they used Keaton as the symbiote's voice (I think), but in my opinion they killed the momentum with the flashback.

All in all, a good episode, just not one of the strongest. Venom's story always seems to come across weakly.

 

[TheAQU4M4N]

I liked that they lifted quite a few scenes from spider-man 1 and 2. I wonder what scenes will be emulated next week in the season finale from "spider-man 3" Maybe the construction site fight?

Then the car

the whole killing the robber who killed Uncle Ben was straight from the movie and everything b4 that..

 

[blk_spidey]

i have to see it!

 

[Mister J]

I'm constantly amazed at how much this show seems to fit into 22 minutes; it often feels closer to an hour. I loved Peter's 'internal' battle with the symbiote and Uncle Ben's role was incredibly comforting. The Eddie/Peter progressed nicely as well, to the point where it didn't feel so rushed (which was my concern earlier). I did wish they had gone with the burglar angle for Ben's demise, but it's not as if what was done wasn't well-executed.

Jeebus, next week should be good.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I liked that they lifted quite a few scenes from spider-man 1 and 2. I wonder what scenes will be emulated next week in the season finale from "spider-man 3" Maybe the construction site fight?

Then the car

Those movie homages are always so entertaining.

 

[SFII]

i thought it was a creative interpretation of the Venom story. it was a little different from what the movie and 90s cartoon did. it was pretty cool.
also, another cool thing is to hear those key words "With great power comes great responsibility". not only was this said in the movie, but also i was watching the old 1981 Spider-man and his Amazing Friends cartoon on Jetix, and it was a Origin story of Spider-Man and the same exact words were used "with great power comes great responsibility". it's just amazing how throughout the years the words still remain the same.

 

[Gold Samurai]

y

the whole killing the robber who killed Uncle Ben was straight from the movie and everything b4 that..

yes and like others have said some dialogue as well like
"I used to be a teenager too, I went through the exact same things"
"no, not exactly uncle ben"

also the elevator door slowly closing with the robber. All that was missing was a "thanks!"

 

[Anwar]

They DID do the Burglar angle, they just used the Movie version where it happened right outside the Wrestling building instead of having him try to rob their home days later.

And for those of you who say it was contrived of the burglar to go to Ben's car of all cars there, it's equally as contrived he would try to rob the Parkers' home of all homes that night as well (yeah I know they retconned it so that he was looking for hidden treasure but still...).

I wonder if they'll do what JMS did in the "May finds out" bit (if they do that) and have her reveal she was somehow also holding guilt over Ben's death (maybe the idea of having Ben go with Peter was her idea?).

 

[Web-Head408]

also the elevator door slowly closing with the robber. All that was missing was a "thanks!"

The smile he gave Spidey made up for that line missing.

 

[LEGO Spidey]

Nevermind, folks, I found the real deal! Search TorrentPortal and you can't miss it.

 

[DACrowe]

All in all, a good episode. I have to say this is probably the most mature interpretation of the character not counting the comics. Even if you do count the comics, this is much more...coherent.

I really liked the development of Gwen and MJ in this episode as well as Flash Thompson giving Peter ****. I thought Peter's stare-downs with Eddie Brock all went well and I think the building to Eddie Brock's turn to evil was very well done. What I really liked was the internalization of the struggle between Peter and the symbiote. It is much more sophisticated than it was in TAS or the comics and was barely present in SM3. That inner-mental fight was amazingly well done, especially with the emphasis on Uncle Ben.

And finally, I may be biased because I like the Spidey trilogy (yeah, all of them), but I love how much they have influenced this show. What Sam Raimi did is becoming as influencial to the character as most classic comic runs, at least visually. There were probably a half dozen visual nods to Spider-Man 3 including when Peter begins ripping the symbiote off -- and the origin was an amalgamation of Amazing Fantasy #15 and the first Spider-Man movie. Substitute MJ with Gwen and there are some identical moments. Very well done.

P.S. Why did Peter try to destroy the symbiote? That seemed contrived when he could have just given it back to Dr. Conners to study.

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, I noticed that everyone was in the same positions they were in during the opening titles sequence where we see Peter getting bit. Pause during the titles and you'll see Gwen is staring at a tank while Peter is in the back when he gets bit.

 

[Anwar]

P.S. Why did Peter try to destroy the symbiote? That seemed contrived when he could have just given it back to Dr. Conners to study.

He figured it would just get loose somehow and start the mess all over again.

Which is exactly what happened.

 

[Dread]

"How's Spectacular Spider-Man?"

"SO GOOD."

Alright, a shameless way to start a review post, but that about sums up my feelings so far. We are 12 episodes in and the show doesn't seem to be suffering from freshmen jitters or flukes of fate. Every episode builds on the last and things don't seem to be going anywhere but up. I was hoping that we could finally have a show for Spider-Man that truly had it all; good writing, acting, animation, storylines, and ACTION, and I am simply amazed that SS-M has done so with such speed. I mean, I can't think of too many shows that didn't stumble at least once with Season 1. SS-M really hasn't. And it certainly hasn't with the Black Costume saga, having the comics, the 90's cartoon and the movie to borrow from.

Continuing from last week, Peter finds out that May is in the hospital, just as the suit seems to be exercising it's influence over him more directly, probably feeding on his emotions. When he sees Eddie Brock at the hospital, he doesn't try to explain himself; he just tosses his angry ex-friend aside. While he dotes over May, the fact that the hospital bills are extreme make "Dark Peter" more bitter and eager for money. I thought having the symbiote exist as a black t-shirt for Peter was simple yet effective. Not as extreme as the suit/slicked hair of the third film, which was good.

I have to admit, when Gwen, MJ, and Liz all rushed to Peter's aid at Midtown High, I kind of imagined that Peter was Tenchi from TENCHI MUYO, having a little harem of supporters. He brushes them aside in his bitterness and at this point is calling himself, and thinking of himself, as "we". He rejects their sympathy as his only concern is getting the cash he needs. He immediately swings into Tombstone's office and wants to take that offer of employment; Tombstone is glad to oblige, ordering him not to fight any non-supervillain crime for a month to prove his loyalty.

Joshua LaBar, who plays Flash Thompson, was interviewed by Comics Continuum recently, and it was good timing as Flash of all people gets through to Peter, calling him something akin to an uptight egghead for rejecting the friends that he has (which are more than he had at the pilot). I did smirk when Dark Peter referred to the former bully by his given name, "Eugene". Of course, the fact that Flash actually made sense gets Peter to thinking, and realizing that the alien costume is becoming an unwelcome influence on his life. He happens upon a church cathedral and upon finding out that the intense BONG of the bell hurts the alien, the battle for control begins.

Josh Keaton has been a good Peter/Spidey since the pilot, but this episode really tested his chops, basically asking of him to play both Peter and "Dark Peter". In some ways he fared better than Adam Baldwin did in SUPERMAN: DOOMSDAY. The part that was most unexpected, and therefore excellent, was choosing this moment and this circumstance to go over Peter's origin.

The problem with origin sequences is that for major characters, especially A-list, title heroes like Spidey who have 3 movies, a few shows, and thousands of comics behind them, the audience already knows it. The challenge comes in when is the best time to show it, and why. SPIDER-MAN & HIS AMAZING FRIENDS in the second season actually had a good reason for airing the origin story in ALONG CAME SPIDEY, framing it in the context of May being injured in a fight with Shocker and Peter questioning his entire career. The 90's series covered the origin twice, once in Season 1 briefly and more in depth in Season 2 during a somewhat awkward adaptation of "THE BOY WHO COLLECTED SPIDER-MAN", but that series had the downside of a fairly uninspired design for Peter (too Nicholas Hammond). But in some ways this show surpasses both of these prior angles. The origin, first of all, has some extra oomph being in Black and White, not only due to it being a flashback, but because those are the symbiote's colors. The origin is also part of a dream-like state between a battle of wills. The alien is trying to use Peter's own origin against him, but Peter manages to turn to tables.

The origin, naturally, is a mix of the comic book with heavy influences of the movie, with trading the Burglar for a Carjacker, the lab scene (with Gwen instead of MJ in that role, and she fits SO much better) and having Spidey allow the thief to escape to avenge being cheated from his wrestling money, instead of pure arrogance (ALONG CAME SPIDEY is still the most accurate animated adaptation). The only niggle is that this show has established that Peter uses mechanical web-shooters and the origin all but alluded to organics, but as they also had Spidey's red-and-blue costume melt over his skin for visual effect, it may have just been artistic license. The bit about dodging the car, crushing the pipe on the roof, that's pure Ditko. In fact, I could argue the entire sequence, especially at the end, seemed "very Ditko". The way the symbiote's "face" was yelling at Peter almost like old school Dormammu, or the webbing in the background when they threw each other around, it felt like they were channeling that 60's magic. And that helped greatly to help cement Venom, who is barely 20 years old (for a franchise that has been around for more than twice that; many older fans consider him "new"), as the A-List rogue that he has become.

Whoever played Uncle Ben here did a bang-up job. In a way it also reminded me of "FAREWELL SPIDER-MAN" from the finale of the 90's show, in which Peter trucks out Uncle Ben to stop Spider-Carnage. Much like that show, it required whoever played Ben to just come in and act as if he was in the series all along, and SS-M nailed that too. The symbiote naturally drags Peter through his origin to try to convince him of the alternative that the alien offers. Unlike his other loved ones, it remains. Rather than sit back and allow life to take from him, the alien offers Peter to take what he wants, when he wants, because he has the power. Considering the alien is a part of Peter (at least for the time being) and had access to his mind, it made perfect sense to go along this tract, which helped make this sequence utterly brilliant. I suppose if you wanted to question things, it sometimes was questionable whether Uncle Ben was Peter's conscience or somehow the man's spirit himself helping his "son". Ben, naturally, shows us a better alternative to the showdown between Peter and Ben's Killer than the 2002 movie had; Spidey doesn't allow him to fall to his death, because "Ben wouldn't allow that". Ben reminds Peter of the friends that he does have, that the alien is making him push away. And we also see clips from pretty much every episode of the show so far to showcase how Peter has used his gift responsibly. The Lizard clips especially hit the point for me; Peter was questioning taking that serum to erase his powers, especially after losing the respect of Gwen, the Conners, and Brock. He resisted because in the end, what mattered wasn't glory, but it was helping people who otherwise wouldn't be helped without Spider-Man.

Because of the serial and sequential storytelling of the series, this sequence was given a lot more power than it would have had with other shows. It really felt like a natural finale-build.

Thus reminded of his true spirit, Peter rejects the alien and psychically fights with his dark self and the alien, shredding it from himself and exposing the red an' blues once more. The alien otherwise defeated, Spider-Man returns it to the Conners lab.

But, oh boy, the episode ain't over yet. In fact this episode, like a few this season, literally seems to use every second; no minute is wasted and just when you think it is over, a new angle happens. Eddie Brock has been fired from the Conners lab, since without the alien, they have no grant money. Without that, he would have to quit ESU. When Spidey returns the alien, Brock is overjoyed until the web-slinger tries to freeze the creature to death to eliminate the threat. Brock naturally doesn't understand, and Spidey can't tell him without exposing his identity. Of course, the alien finds a kindred spirit, and the two bond. This was slightly more like USM, since it happened in a lab, not a church, like the comics and 90's series. But I liked how the communication between Brock and the alien contrasted. Brock wanted the power. And once armed with the knowledge that Peter is Spider-Man, what is Brock's first thought? Not how that means Peter WASN'T a coward and saved his life as well as the Conners from Lizard, or Gwen and some of the other people from threats. No, it was vengeance. Brock isn't going to be responsible with his power, and that ideally is what Venom is all about.

And this isn't even mentioning the quick but effective scene where MJ figures out that Gwen is crushing on Peter and encourages her to "go for it". Much like the comics, there is plenty of soap stuff without the spandex.

Venom makes his first animation debut in about 9 years and he easily looks better than the 90's show. No blue highlights or pink highlights or awkward looking eyes. He's big but not so muscular looking that he can't animate well. And we get the feeling that Spider-Man is about to face his deadliest enemy, because of how personal it is, and that is exactly the best way to use Venom.

Flawless.

The question isn't if episode 13, which may or may not be a season finale, will rock. The question is how much.

 

[The Overlord]

Ed Asner did Ben's voice

 

[Venomfan]

wow i'm kinda surprised everyone is loving this episode so much, i actually found it to be the weakest one so far. I wish i liked it, i wanted to like it, but i couldn't and it made it more obvious when my dad (who sometimes watches it) said "this one isn't as good as the others), at that point i accepted that i just didn't like it as much. And i'm pissed we never got the classic symbiote suit, which is way cooler than anything we got

the first bit up until the flashback was great, i loved it, but the flashback was just kinda boring, and it was annoying to me how they just copied everything from the movie.

i really liked Flash showing up Peter, that felt like something straight out of the comics.

Brocks hatred was more developed, but still felt rushed, this should have been going on throughout the whole seasons instead of just all of a sudden at the end. This is where TAS beats this show is with Brocks character, and since he's my favorite villain i notice it more.

on a whole though, the next episode is going to have to be better than the 3 previous episodes to me, because for the symbiote saga this doesn't touch the TAS.

oh and from the preview, i really didn't like Venom's voice, he sounded like a little kid making a tough guy voice. hopefully it will actually be better though, although i'm going away for 2 months on thursday so wont see it for a looooooong time

ps, did i hear TAS shockers voice in the episode too?
and i get the feeling that the next time we see Gwen she'l look like Gwen from the comics, i think she's going to pretty herself up to try and hook up with Pete

 

[Dread]

Ed Asner did Ben's voice

SERIOUSLY!?

That's awesome.

That means Asner has had a role in pretty much every Spider-Man cartoon for the past 15 or so years. Except SPIDER-MAN UNLIMITED, but I wouldn't blame him for that one. Now if Jennifer Hale has a role in SS-M, she could officially have had a role in every Spidey cartoon since the 90's.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

"How's Spectacular Spider-Man?"

"SO GOOD."

Alright, a shameless way to start a review post, but that about sums up my feelings so far. We are 12 episodes in and the show doesn't seem to be suffering from freshmen jitters or flukes of fate. Every episode builds on the last and things don't seem to be going anywhere but up. I was hoping that we could finally have a show for Spider-Man that truly had it all; good writing, acting, animation, storylines, and ACTION, and I am simply amazed that SS-M has done so with such speed. I mean, I can't think of too many shows that didn't stumble at least once with Season 1. SS-M really hasn't. And it certainly hasn't with the Black Costume saga, having the comics, the 90's cartoon and the movie to borrow from.

Continuing from last week, Peter finds out that May is in the hospital, just as the suit seems to be exercising it's influence over him more directly, probably feeding on his emotions. When he sees Eddie Brock at the hospital, he doesn't try to explain himself; he just tosses his angry ex-friend aside. While he dotes over May, the fact that the hospital bills are extreme make "Dark Peter" more bitter and eager for money. I thought having the symbiote exist as a black t-shirt for Peter was simple yet effective. Not as extreme as the suit/slicked hair of the third film, which was good.

I have to admit, when Gwen, MJ, and Liz all rushed to Peter's aid at Midtown High, I kind of imagined that Peter was Tenchi from TENCHI MUYO, having a little harem of supporters. He brushes them aside in his bitterness and at this point is calling himself, and thinking of himself, as "we". He rejects their sympathy as his only concern is getting the cash he needs. He immediately swings into Tombstone's office and wants to take that offer of employment; Tombstone is glad to oblige, ordering him not to fight any non-supervillain crime for a month to prove his loyalty.

Joshua LaBar, who plays Flash Thompson, was interviewed by Comics Continuum recently, and it was good timing as Flash of all people gets through to Peter, calling him something akin to an uptight egghead for rejecting the friends that he has (which are more than he had at the pilot). I did smirk when Dark Peter referred to the former bully by his give name, "Eugene". Of course, the fact that Flash actually made sense gets Peter to thinking, and realizing that the alien costume is becoming an unwelcome influence on his life. He happens upon a church cathedral and upon finding out that the intense BONG of the bell hurts the alien, the battle for control begins.

Josh Keaton has been a good Peter/Spidey since the pilot, but this episode really tested his chops, basically asking of him to play both Peter and "Dark Peter". In some ways he fared better than Adam Baldwin did in SUPERMAN: DOOMSDAY. The part that was most unexpected, and therefore excellent, was choosing this moment and this circumstance to go over Peter's origin.

The problem with origin sequences is that for major characters, especially A-list, title heroes like Spidey who have 3 movies, a few shows, and thousands of comics behind them, the audience already knows it. The challenge comes in when is the best time to show it, and why. SPIDER-MAN & HIS AMAZING FRIENDS in the second season actually had a good reason for airing the origin story in ALONG CAME SPIDEY, framing it in the context of May being injured in a fight with Shocker and Peter questioning his entire career. The 90's series covered the origin twice, once in Season 1 briefly and more in depth in Season 2 during a somewhat awkward adaptation of "THE BOY WHO COLLECTED SPIDER-MAN", but that series had the downside of a fairly uninspired design for Peter (too Nicholas Hammond). But in some ways this show surpasses both of these prior angles. The origin, first of all, has some extra oomph being in Black and White, not only due to it being a flashback, but because those are the symbiote's colors. The origin is also part of a dream-like state between a battle of wills. The alien is trying to use Peter's own origin against him, but Peter manages to turn to tables.

The origin, naturally, is a mix of the comic book with heavy influences of the movie, with trading the Burglar for a Carjacker, the lab scene (with Gwen instead of MJ in that role, and she fits SO much better) and having Spidey allow the thief to escape to avenge being cheated from his wrestling money, instead of pure arrogance (ALONG CAME SPIDEY is still the most accurate animated adaptation). The only niggle is that this show has established that Peter uses mechanical web-shooters and the origin all but alluded to organics, but as they also had Spidey's red-and-blue costume melt over his skin for visual effect, it may have just been artistic license. The bit about dodging the car, crushing the pipe on the roof, that's pure Ditko. In fact, I could argue the entire sequence, especially at the end, seemed "very Ditko". The way the symbiote's "face" was yelling at Peter almost like old school Dormammu, or the webbing in the background when they threw each other around, it felt like they were channeling that 60's magic. And that helped greatly to help cement Venom, who is barely 20 years old (for a franchise that has been around for more than twice that; many older fans consider him "new"), as the A-List rogue that he has become.

Whoever played Uncle Ben here did a bang-up job. In a way it also reminded me of "FAREWELL SPIDER-MAN" from the finale of the 90's show, in which Peter trucks out Uncle Ben to stop Spider-Carnage. Much like that show, it required whoever played Ben to just come in and act as if he was in the series all along, and SS-M nailed that too. The symbiote naturally drags Peter through his origin to try to convince him of the alternative that the alien offers. Unlike his other loved ones, it remains. Rather than sit back and allow life to take from him, the alien offers Peter to take what he wants, when he wants, because he has the power. Considering the alien is a part of Peter (at least for the time being) and had access to his mind, it made perfect sense to go along this tract, which helped make this sequence utterly brilliant. I suppose if you wanted to question things, it sometimes was questionable whether Uncle Ben was Peter's conscience or somehow the man's spirit himself helping his "son". Ben, naturally, shows us a better alternative to the showdown between Peter and Ben's Killer than the 2002 movie had; Spidey doesn't allow him to fall to his death, because "Ben wouldn't allow that". Ben reminds Peter of the friends that he does have, that the alien is making him push away. And we also see clips from pretty much every episode of the show so far to showcase how Peter has used his gift responsibly. The Lizard clips especially hit the point for me; Peter was questioning taking that serum to erase his powers, especially after losing the respect of Gwen, the Conners, and Brock. He resisted because in the end, what mattered wasn't glory, but it was helping people who otherwise wouldn't be helped without Spider-Man.

Because of the serial and sequential storytelling of the series, this sequence was given a lot more power than it would have had with other shows. It really felt like a natural finale-build.

Thus reminded of his true spirit, Peter rejects the alien and psychically fights with his dark self and the alien, shredding it from himself and exposing the red an' blues once more. The alien otherwise defeated, Spider-Man returns it to the Conners lab.

But, oh boy, the episode ain't over yet. In fact this episode, like a few this season, literally seems to use every second; no minute is wasted and just when you think it is over, a new angle happens. Eddie Brock has been fired from the Conners lab, since without the alien, they have no grant money. Without that, he would have to quit ESU. When Spidey returns the alien, Brock is overjoyed until the web-slinger tries to freeze the creature to death to eliminate the threat. Brock naturally doesn't understand, and Spidey can't tell him without exposing his identity. Of course, the alien finds a kindred spirit, and the two bond. This was slightly more like USM, since it happened in a lab, not a church, like the comics and 90's series. But I liked how the communication between Brock and the alien contrasted. Brock wanted the power. And once armed with the knowledge that Peter is Spider-Man, what is Brock's first thought? Not how that means Peter WASN'T a coward and saved his life as well as the Conners from Lizard, or Gwen and some of the other people from threats. No, it was vengeance. Brock isn't going to be responsible with his power, and that ideally is what Venom is all about.

And this isn't even mentioning the quick but effective scene where MJ figures out that Gwen is crushing on Peter and encourages her to "go for it". Much like the comics, there is plenty of soap stuff without the spandex.

Venom makes his first animation debut in about 9 years and he easily looks better than the 90's show. No blue highlights or pink highlights or awkward looking eyes. He's big but not so muscular looking that he can't animate well. And we get the feeling that Spider-Man is about to face his deadliest enemy, because of how personal it is, and that is exactly the best way to use Venom.

Flawless.

The question isn't if episode 13, which may or may not be a season finale, will rock. The question is how much.

Fantastic review, Dread!

 

[Dread]

Fantastic review, Dread!

Thanks. I felt especially inspired.

 

[blk_spidey]

man, where i can see the episode?

 

[Dread]

Oh, and Jim Cummings as Crusher Hogan was great. Wiesman & Co. really know how it should be done.