Is America still America?

[Mr. Smash'n Bash]

The Daily Mail is a joke no one takes that 'newspaper' seriously in Britain. Its well known for being slightly right wing in its views and scaremongering to the middle classes. The newspaper also had a history of supporting the Nazis during the 2nd world war.

So don't get your news about britain from this sourced for a balanced opinion as its like the bill o'riley of news companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

There are other news pages that posted that story, that one just happened to be at the top of the page when I googled it.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Sorry I left before reading this. The point was (and if you read the earlier threads to see what we were actually responding to and that long and rather pointless, thought mildly poetic, post wouldn't have been needed) was that we were responding to someone gleeful that america was having assimulation problems from within and without. They argued that since america has a history of slavery and land stealing we deserved this. My point was that every nation and every civilization in the history of the world has employed land stealing and slavery at one point or another.

We weren't saying slavery is an only muslim thing we were saying it was an everyone thing. But I appreciate you taking what was said out of context to rant, that's always fun. And punctuating everything with that's history? Brilliant!!! Wow it's almost like you recycled some hippie liberal arts paper and spit it back out from the sixties. Very timely!

Anyway you decided to respond to the topic posts but then rant at us when we were responding to something entirely different. But I guess people get so caught up in themselves that they don't bother to actually try and see what someone else is saying or responding to. That's History!

LOL, it's funny that you wrote all that under an incorrect assumption.
see? what I was talking about was how you said Celldog had made an excellent point.
which you know? it kind of wasn't.
had you read his links you'd see the reasons for my post, or maybe you read them and just couldn't understand them.
things like that happen to people like you quite often.
it's also quite hilarious that you try and sound condescending towards me while you refer to the main point of the thread as the problems the US is having with "assimulation" woot: LOL, seriously LOL!) and it seems that you have rather a marked difficulty discerning between what People posted and why.
i'd advise you look over the thread, I think you missed your Medication and perhaps got a little too busy jumping around around and pointing at the shiny things on the screen to remember.

however I do.

Junior, your uncles and fathers didn't just fight for this country, they stole it from a civilization that was already here and then kidnapped millions of Africans to built it for them. I say that what is happening is pretty ironic, wouldn't you say?

and then your response?

Name me one civilization in the history of the world that hasn't taken land from someone before them or used slaves.

Just one.

I don't think I see any indication of him saying you as a country ( that I believe he is part of, maybe I'm wrong) "deserved"this.

so, ummm strike one, that's the problem with messageboards, stuff gets all preserved for posterity and ****.
and you pretty much had no "point"just a weak dodge at what raybia said which you obviously had no good answer for.

that's strike two.

oh, and I noticed something really interesting.
you kept talking about my "rant" I invite any and all interested (which my guess will be pretty much no one) to read your posts from page one, you have used the word "rant" like ten times so far.
it's Ironic since you managed to not adress a SINGLE point I made in posts, just tried your best to sound lofty.
see the thing about that is that you need to be intelligent and or coherent to pull that one off.
you kind of failed, which, as raybia would say is pretty Ironic, isn't it?
I suggest before you go and try to pass yourself off for a thinking person you familiarize yourself with reading comprehension and perhaps basic logic, you'll be all the better for it, I promise you.

 

[raybia]

I don't think I see any indication of him saying you as a country ( that I believe he is part of, maybe I'm wrong) "deserved"this.

Yes, I am American and you are correct that I did not say America "deserved" this nor was it even remotely implied.

Mr. Sparkle, you are living proof that reading can lead to comprehension!

 

[moraldeficiency]

LOL, it's funny that you wrote all that under an incorrect assumption.
see? what I was talking about was how you said Celldog had made an excellent point.
which you know? it kind of wasn't.
had you read his links you'd see the reasons for my post, or maybe you read them and just couldn't understand them.
things like that happen to people like you quite often.
it's also quite hilarious that you try and sound condescending towards me while you refer to the main point of the thread as the problems the US is having with "assimulation" woot: LOL, seriously LOL!) and it seems that you have rather a marked difficulty discerning between what People posted and why.
i'd advise you look over the thread, I think you missed your Medication and perhaps got a little too busy jumping around around and pointing at the shiny things on the screen to remember.

however I do.



and then your response?



I don't think I see any indication of him saying you as a country ( that I believe he is part of, maybe I'm wrong) "deserved"this.

so, ummm strike one, that's the problem with messageboards, stuff gets all preserved for posterity and ****.
and you pretty much had no "point"just a weak dodge at what raybia said which you obviously had no good answer for.

that's strike two.

oh, and I noticed something really interesting.
you kept talking about my "rant" I invite any and all interested (which my guess will be pretty much no one) to read your posts from page one, you have used the word "rant" like ten times so far.
it's Ironic since you managed to not adress a SINGLE point I made in posts, just tried your best to sound lofty.
see the thing about that is that you need to be intelligent and or coherent to pull that one off.
you kind of failed, which, as raybia would say is pretty Ironic, isn't it?
I suggest before you go and try to pass yourself off for a thinking person you familiarize yourself with reading comprehension and perhaps basic logic, you'll be all the better for it, I promise you.

Very long post. But again you miss what was originally said. I was saying good point to him originally calling out rybia for simply dismissing a valid point as irrevelant. The rest of the post had nothing to do with me.

Hey insults and wit (well sort of) that's completely suprising and fresh! You are a very bright and clever person. I was attacking an argument you attack me. I won't use strikes here (mainly cause it's been done to death) but if you have to attack me, you obviously can't make a real point only misdirect.

You're right it wasn't expressly said that america (I'm not american, I just live here currently, by the way) deserved this. That was implied in the text. If I am wrong about this I'll let rybia tell me and I'll apologize. Still I wasn't the only one to draw that conclusion.

I used the word rant because most people on this thread are in fact ranting. You were, rybia did, the original poster did, and I did with my first post on this (apologies).

I didn't address your points, only the comments which concerned my post. I thought that was obvious that I was only answering what you were commenting about towards me. For the most part I agreed with your points or if I didn't they were simply differences of opinion and I'm not one to jump up and down screaming because someone feels differently but expresses it well (for the most part).

Now if you'll excuse me there's something shiny on my screen and I feel the compusion to jump around and point at it.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Yes, I am American and you are correct that I did not say America "deserved" this nor was it even remotely implied.

Mr. Sparkle, you are living proof that reading can lead to comprehension!

My apologies then raybia. Personally I think your country (though land grabbing and former slavers) is the finest in the world.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

LOL, oh moraldeficiency.
you poor, poor thing.

but this part
"you obviously can't make a real point only misdirect."

was just gold, simply GOLD coming from you.
for serious.

 

[raybia]

Yes, I am American and you are correct that I did not say America "deserved" this nor was it even remotely implied.

Very long post. But again you miss what was originally said. I was saying good point to him originally calling out rybia for simply dismissing a valid point as irrevelant.

I didn't dismiss his valid point, I dismissed his attempt to dodge the point that I was making.


You're right it wasn't expressly said that america (I'm not american, I just live here currently, by the way) deserved this. That was implied in the text. If I am wrong about this I'll let rybia tell me and I'll apologize. Still I wasn't the only one to draw that conclusion.

You and anyone else who came to this conclusion are wrong. Mr. Sparkle came to the right conclusion.

I used the word rant because most people on this thread are in fact ranting. You were, rybia did, the original poster did, and I did with my first post on this (apologies).

You obviously don't know the definition of the word rant.

 

[raybia]

My apologies then raybia. Personally I think your country (though land grabbing and former slavers) is the finest in the world.

Do me a favor and and see my response to hippy fascist in this thread to see how I view America. I'm interested in your response.

 

[Henry Hill]

Do some of you guys ever wish that you had had the guts to be so cynical and arrogant back in High School?

 

[moraldeficiency]

LOL, oh moraldeficiency.
you poor, poor thing.

but this part
"you obviously can't make a real point only misdirect."

was just gold, simply GOLD coming from you.
for serious.

Happy to brighten your day sunshine. But again you make fun rather than actually say something. LOL all you want, sparkles, you are once again misdirecting form what I said to make a character attack.

Now quick, quote this post and say LOL a lot and explain how superior your logic and reasoning is (without the why of course)

 

[moraldeficiency]

Do some of you guys ever wish that you had had the guts to be so cynical and arrogant back in High School?

wish I could have went to high school. actually no, I take that back the beach was a lot more fun.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Happy to brighten your day sunshine. But again you make fun rather than actually say something. LOL all you want, sparkles, you are once again misdirecting form what I said to make a character attack.

Now quick, quote this post and say LOL a lot and explain how superior your logic and reasoning is (without the why of course)

actually sport.
you might have forgotten, but I made a ton of points that other people were able to see. it is you who chose to "make fun" rather than a point.
Irony is a weight you carry woefully through your life isn't it?

 

[moraldeficiency]

He may have a point but in responding to my post, he missed my point entirely.

The thread starter mentioned his fathers and uncles fighting for this country as though that makes it exclusively theirs.

But this country belongs to all people who are American citizens, including the decendents of African slaves and native Americans, and now people who immigrated from other parts of the world. Its no longer a Christian country for caucasians only. In fact, it was neither.

Just because the atocities of the past are mentioned doesn't mean its villainizing our nation. Our country is not a villian, even though it has and continues to commit many mistakes. But we do have some villians in power who should be removed. And I'm not just talking about the Bush Adminstration.

Moraldeficiency's point was that its not fair to mention it because everyone else have done it too.

But keeping with the context of this thread, we are not talking about everyone else. We are talking about America. And I don't give a damn if every society in the history of mankind has done, wrong.

America is destined to be much more than any society on the face of the Earth and much more than what we have produced over the past 200 years.

The America that we currently see is by no means the finished product. Its growing and evolving to something greater than has ever existed.

We cannot erase the dark periods of our history, but we should be striving towards an moral excelllence for all countries to follow. A model of excellence on every level that exists for a society.

And America's history and past wrongs have played and continues to play a very significant role in where we are now at and where we are heading as a society.

Good stuff all. Though I do think that by originally attacking the racist guy (original poster) by going after his dead family members, calling him junior, and telling him why is family died was hitting very far below the belt and less enlightened people than mr. sparkle such as myself did see that as a slam against america.

I wasn't actually saying it wasn't fair to bring up america's history because others have done it as well. I was responding to you calling it ironic because in truth every nation in the history of world is guilty of all that and worse. So it's not really ironic, it's typical and very ordinary.

The only part I completely disagree with is history teaching america from past wrongs. No one really learns from the past. We had Japanese in interminent camps in WW2 and if we have another terrorist attack here watch what will happen to all people of middle eastern descent. I don't think any nation really is capable of learning too much from mistakes mainly because all anyone wants to do is gloss over the bad and rewrite history to their liking. With that going on no one really learns because what actually happened is lost in translation and watered down over the years.

Now I have to go, Happy Easter all! and to those that don't believe in that stuff you have yourselves a fine weekend!

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Of say raybia, didn't see you'd responded...

As for Jesus' pacifism...you bring up a whole other topic, which is, the Bible is a load of bologna eaten through with hundreds of contradictions, a mess of disparate volumes compiled by men centuries after the fact for their own ends.

However I don't think anyone disputes the facts that Mohammed was a warrior and Jesus was never in a physical war, and that when swords were raised to defend him, he rebuked his "defenders" and healed his attacker.
Mohammed used violence, including assassination, to defeat and convert men to Islam. Jesus converted people by teaching, persuasion, and example. He never used force, nor would He allow His disciples to use force, even when His enemies attacked Him.



But anyway,

That is your opinion, but I feel its wrong to mock respected religious figures such as Jesus, with over 1.5 billion followers and Mohammed with over 1.3 billion followers.

Correct. And it's your opinion that it IS wrong.
And just like you can state your opinion as fact ("It IS wrong to mock Jesus.")
I can state mine as fact. ("It is NOT wrong.")

And you always bring up the numbers of believers, which I don't get.
Totally irrelevant.
In Nazi Germany, the vast majority of people thought Jews were subhuman.
Does it somehow make them RIGHT?!?, because they had more people with that like belief?
Of course not.
In the Middle Ages, women were treated like property, like animals, and had no rights...by EVERYone.
Does that mean it was the RIGHT way to go about things?
At one time, 100% of the population thought the Earth was flat.

That just meant that 100% of the population was ignorant.
I have no automatic respect for what "Most" of the people believe.

Its disrepectful towards those figures to present him or her in a false light which gets extended to those who follow them. As a result, those followers are perscuted and discriminated against in various ways.

Yes. It is disrespectful. I have no special respect for either figure and actively have NO respect for what their teachings have done to countless generations of people. So if I speak about either figure, or the beliefs they've spawned, it will be with "disprespect", as is appropriate....as appropriate as it is for you to speak with respect, since....you have it.

I don't have respect for child molesters, and when I say, "That worthless inhuman dog should be tortured to death and raped for what he's done to that little defenseless girl."....people tend to have no problem with that lack of respect reflected in speech, beCAUSE, they agree.
Well, sorry, we don't all agree on who and what merits "respect". *shrug*


But again, you're stating a "fact" that isn't true.
You say that if mockery is allowed, it extends to believers and they are persecuted and discriminated against.
Nope. It CAN happen, but it's not the rule.

PLUS, people have used their religious beliefs to justify not only persecution and discrimination against non-believers, but even M.U.R.D.E.R..

So, by YOUR logic, religious belief is wrong, 'cause when people have too much reverence for religious mythology, it extends to those who do not share that reverence, and these non-believers are persecuted, discriminated against and murdered.


LOL
You're funny.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Do some of you guys ever wish that you had had the guts to be so cynical and arrogant back in High School?

would you believe I was even MORE cynical and arrogant.
I've actually toned it down quite a bit.
you should've seen me In college.
it was the cinycal-arrongantiest I could ever be.

wait, that's not a word.

 

[moraldeficiency]

actually sport.
you might have forgotten, but I made a ton of points that other people were able to see. it is you who chose to "make fun" rather than a point.
Irony is a weight you carry woefully through your life isn't it?

Sport? Again with the personal attacks? (yawn) I originally went after you're little attack then commented (or made fun) of what you wrote and how you glossed over what was actually said. You then responded with a personal attack. Do you see the difference?

The other points I already addressed in my previous post. I said I agree with you on some of them and others I didn't feel needed to be debated as you get to have you're own mind on whatever you choose and they weren't hurting anyone.

Irony, yeah I see nothing but irony in life. It's pretty funny actually. Now in keeping with that spirit I'll say to you have a happy easter and if you don't choose to believe in any of that have a fine weekend.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

"Sport" is an attack now, Champ?
That's news to me, Chief.

 

[Duende Verde]

SPORT YOU, YOU MOTHER SPORTER!!!
SPORT YOU IN THE ***!!!!!

 

[moraldeficiency]

sport you all!!!

I was just saying he had to get cute not that it was vicious. Ah, come to me beer it's been a weird day....

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Not a patented Mr. Sparkle CUTE ATTACK!!!!!!

sport sport.......sport

 

[FunBobPants]

have no idea, dude. i live in New Jersey

 

[Kritish]

Obiviously, you don't have it.

Anyone who truly is educated about the character and life of Mohammed (pbuh) (including Muslims) would know that those who truly follow him would never commit such atrocities.

By the way, its equally wrong to mock Jesus.

Verbal abuse is a reality and has devastating effects on people of all ages and backgrounds.

No, people that get their panties in a wag over a picture of Mohammed need to grow up and get a thicker skin. That's how life works.

 

[raybia]

No, people that get their panties in a wag over a picture of Mohammed need to grow up and get a thicker skin. That's how life works.

I agree. Also those who get their jollies off for printing such garbage need to do the same. But we both know that many people are perpetually children.

 

[Kritish]

I agree. Also those who get their jollies off for printing such garbage need to do the same. But we both know that many people are perpetually children.

No one is making you look at pictures of Mohammed or Jesus. This is almost as stupid as the television debate.

 

[C. Lee]

No one is making you look at pictures of Mohammed or Jesus. This is almost as stupid as the television debate.

The point is....people who intentionaly post (or print, or say, or whatever...) something that they know will cause anger in others...just because they think it is funny.....are as bad as the people who riot over the posting.

There is a difference in the concept of "Freedom of Speach"....and the concept of "Freedom to insult Others".