Is America still America?

[Abaddon]

I don't get the rules here sometimes. I think racist bigots should have a right to express their beliefs, as long as they don't throw in a bunch of slurs, or defame a particularly group on a regular basis. This isn't Teletubbie land. We don't need to be protected from the big bad ignoramuses.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Ignorami?

 

[Abaddon]

I didn't get red-lined so who knows?

 

[Sun_Down]

Jeez, what's will all the the stupid, racist threads? I really thought people around here were better than that.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

No one should put any of your damn statements as their signature. You know why?

Because you act like a jackass by pretending to know about American culture and politics when you know absolutely nothing about it. Your posts are nothing more than mini-"I hate America" rants. They're filled with inaccuracies. They're idiotic assumptions and generalizations. And I'm not the only one who feels that way.

*raises hand*

 

[Memphis Slim]

ok, I can understand that you wnat them to learn, but keep in mind that in the 1800's and such, the fact that nothing was bilingual resulted in highly insular Immigrant communities.

You don't even live in this country....correct??

 

[hippie_hunter]

That doesn't change the fact that he's right.

 

[Abaddon]

my god, I'm sick of these Hoffatars

 

[hippie_hunter]

The Hoff is one smexy beast. Give him the respect he deserves...no needs!

 

[Mr Sparkle]

You don't even live in this country....correct??

please point out the portion of my post which references my living in the US. or how that fact would even remotely relate to the point I'm making.

my guess is you won't be able to.

I will however, fondly remember this post every single time you post about all the evils of countries you don't live in or religions you don't practice.

it will be ever so much fun!!!t:

 

[The Kid]

America's lost its sense of righteousness. And it's become too much of a sissy in my opinion.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

yeah...what the US needs is to be MORE self righteous.

yeah.

that's it.....

 

[hippie_hunter]

America's lost its sense of righteousness. And it's become too much of a sissy in my opinion.

We don't need to become more self-righteous than we already are. America's self-righteousness is making us look like an ass in front of the entire world.

What Western society needs as a whole is to stop being such *****es to the facts. Don't stop teaching the Holocaust because one group is offended by it. Don't teach that idiotic "intelligent" design crap because the religous right is offended by evolution.

We shouldn't be afraid that our population is becomming more and more diverse.

We need to see that words are merely words. "Merry Christmas," "One Nation Under God," and "In God We Trust," should not be such a big f**king deal. There are other issues out there that are not petty. And need to actually be addressed. Things like the Iraq War, security, our civil rights, poverty, health care, Iran, America's role in an increasingly interdependent world with an increasingly Sino-Russian influence.

We need to stop getting our panties tied up into a knot everytime a new Grand Theft Auto comes out or Janet Jackson gets her boob exposed during the Super Bowl Halftime Show.

We need to stop forming double-standards on what is offensive and what is not. Apparently it's okay to do this:

But it's not okay for this:

 

[OverMyHead]

We mock Jesus. We hate God when we're born.

We do not mock Muhammed. We do not know when one of his followers will blow us up.

Simple. Got it?

 

[chamber-music]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=445979&in_page_id=1770

The Daily Mail is a joke no one takes that 'newspaper' seriously in Britain. Its well known for being slightly right wing in its views and scaremongering to the middle classes. The newspaper also had a history of supporting the Nazis during the 2nd world war.

So don't get your news about britain from this sourced for a balanced opinion as its like the bill o'riley of news companies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail

 

[moraldeficiency]

really? how so?

and I fail to see how slave trade is a "muslim" thing now.
I would think twice about saying "damn fine point" when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
since nowhere in the thread is there a mention of Instituting Sharia Law.
remember that Celldog is a Bigot that hates Muslims, that's all.
History teaches us that the Greatest centers of Knowledge often spoke more than one language.
that's History.
that opression through Military might often brings economic consequences.
that's History.
and that traditions often change to acommodate other ( Christmas, I'm looking at you) even religions do this.
it's quite easy to get lost in subjective portions of history when we so wish.
it's just not that wise.
and Wil, you know I love you man, but I think your analogy is missing something.

see you said

" However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and expected the natives to adapt as much as immigrants expect we Americans to adapt...they simply wouldn't, and they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out."

this makes it seem like this is happening right now. which is
well, I think the point of the thread correct me if I'm wrong.
in which case a slight correction should be made.


" However, I agree on one thing.
If a huge influx of poor, uneducated Americans were dying to get out of America, and relocated in some other country, and were unable to adapt easily, coupled with an economic crisis easily blamed on immigration to divert from the real causes,they'd try to have all the Americans kicked out."

because the thing I don't get is the part where everyone is getting "forced to adapt" I go to San Diego all the time and the people that are able to speak Spanish are almost always of South American descent.
(knowing numbers and 2 or 3 key phrases is not "learning spanish" BTW)
so I fail to see the impact that they have ( in the south american's case, not "spanish people" because saying that is just stupid) maybe ya'll can enlighten me.

Sorry I left before reading this. The point was (and if you read the earlier threads to see what we were actually responding to and that long and rather pointless, thought mildly poetic, post wouldn't have been needed) was that we were responding to someone gleeful that america was having assimulation problems from within and without. They argued that since america has a history of slavery and land stealing we deserved this. My point was that every nation and every civilization in the history of the world has employed land stealing and slavery at one point or another.

We weren't saying slavery is an only muslim thing we were saying it was an everyone thing. But I appreciate you taking what was said out of context to rant, that's always fun. And punctuating everything with that's history? Brilliant!!! Wow it's almost like you recycled some hippie liberal arts paper and spit it back out from the sixties. Very timely!

Anyway you decided to respond to the topic posts but then rant at us when we were responding to something entirely different. But I guess people get so caught up in themselves that they don't bother to actually try and see what someone else is saying or responding to. That's History!

 

[arachnid-guy]

This is a VERY interesting thread.

 

[moraldeficiency]

After that hypocrite remark, I'll end my conversation with you here but I'll leave you with a lasting thought. America's decline will actually prove to be its reform.

Or maybe because you don't have an answer or valid point to offer. Very zen point but as I mentioned earlier counties and societies don't actually matter. Every civilization rises and falls over enough time. It typically leads to a more efficient and advanced civilization the next go round but not always (see fall of Rome). America's decline will hopefully prove to be the next major civilization's reform and betterment, but not necessarily...

 

[raybia]

We mock Jesus. We hate God when we're born.

We do not mock Muhammed. We do not know when one of his followers will blow us up.

Simple. Got it?

Obiviously, you don't have it.

Anyone who truly is educated about the character and life of Mohammed (pbuh) (including Muslims) would know that those who truly follow him would never commit such atrocities.

By the way, its equally wrong to mock Jesus.

 

[raybia]

America's lost its sense of righteousness.

I'm with you on this. And so is Jimmy.


http://www.amazon.com/Our-Endangere...7083015?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175870830&sr=8-2

 

[raybia]

America's lost its sense of righteousness.

edit

 

[moraldeficiency]

They took er jerbs!!!!

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Obiviously, you don't have it.

Anyone who truly is educated about the character and life of Mohammed (pbuh) (including Muslims) would know that those who truly follow him would never commit such atrocities.

By the way, its equally wrong to mock Jesus.

1) Maybe the difference comes in that Jesus was a pacifist and Mohammed was a warrior. So you follow the thread from those core differences and end up with a predominantly Christian nation where it's okay to mock Jesus (because Jesus himself would've 'turned the other cheek'), and a predominantly Muslim country where people are killed (whether in retribution or accidentally being trampled in violent riots) for mocking Mohammed (because he was violent). *shrug*

2) It isn't wrong to mock any public or historical figure. How on Earth does it hurt anyone? :???:
Intangible words. Intangible ideas. They can do absolutely no harm unless YOU want/allow them to...which is really just a justification for your venting of your frustrations and rage, which, in my mind, is always coming from a darker place than "coarse jesting".

 

[moraldeficiency]

If God is anything like the God people would actually want then he/she/it has a sense of humor. If God has no sense of humor and cannot find anything funny about his/her/itself then why would anyone actually want to go to heaven(or whatever) and be in that presence?

I guarantee you though that no religion's God would advocate butchering people because of a cartoon (unless it's Family Circus, then death is appropriate).

 

[raybia]

1) Maybe the difference comes in that Jesus was a pacifist and Mohammed was a warrior.

Thats the perception of Jesus and Mohammed that is given to the world. But Mohammed was much more than a warrior and more of a teacher and preacher of G-d's word.

And as far as Jesus being a pacifist:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

“For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and SLAY them before me. And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem” (Luke 19:26-28).

Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27).


So you follow the thread from those core differences and end up with a predominantly Christian nation where it's okay to mock Jesus (because Jesus himself would've 'turned the other cheek'), and a predominantly Muslim country where people are killed (whether in retribution or accidentally being trampled in violent riots) for mocking Mohammed (because he was violent). *shrug*


"TURN THE OTHER CHEEK" ALWAYS?

It is true that Jesus said to turn the other cheek in Matthew 5:38-42. However, many scholars do not believe pacifism or nonresistance is the essential point of His teaching in this passage. These scholars do not believe Jesus was teaching to "turn the other cheek" in virtually all circumstances. Even Christ did not literally turn the other cheek when smitten by a member of the Sanhedrin (see John 18:22-23).


Jesus turning the other cheek does not advocate mocking him or others, nor advocating the action of being struck. But one perception is that it means not to retailate personally and let the law of the land handed it. Jesus is quoted as saying, "Anyone who speaks a word against the son of Man will be forgiven but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven." Matt 12-30-32.

He also said, "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, `You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire." Matt 5-23-24.

So if you are a follower of Jesus, mocking him or others, is not right and does have consequences for those who do so.


Again, that is your perceptions of Jesus and Mohammed, that many people share. I agree that perceptions, right or wrong, can shape events and conditions, and that is the danger of misrepresenting the truth.



2) It isn't wrong to mock any public or historical figure. How on Earth does it hurt anyone? :???:

That is your opinion, but I feel its wrong to mock respected religious figures such as Jesus, with over 1.5 billion followers and Mohammed with over 1.3 billion followers.

Its disrepectful towards those figures to present him or her in a false light which gets extended to those who follow them. As a result, those followers are perscuted and discriminated against in various ways.

Intangible words. Intangible ideas. They can do absolutely no harm unless YOU want/allow them to...which is really just a justification for your venting of your frustrations and rage, which, in my mind, is always coming from a darker place than "coarse jesting".

Verbal abuse is a reality and has devastating effects on people of all ages and backgrounds.