James Bond In Skyfall - - - Part 12

[CapedCrusader14]

It's not like Bond has never had implausible plot devices.

 

[georgec]

Influx of Nolan haters in 3...2...1...

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Influx of Nolan haters in 3...2...1...

I thought they already arrived.

 

[Octoberist]

The sad thing is that there's this weird agressive trend of jabs towards Nolan. It's one thing to dislike him but now it's like now kinda over the top.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I have to agree. It's like the disappointment some people felt from Rises is enough to warrant it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Why must we discuss Nolan in EVERY thread. It is annoying as hell. Honestly.

 

[Octoberist]

It is. Very. Annoying.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Okay, as a moderator, I am going to say if you want to discuss Nolan doing a Bond film, do it in the Bond 24 thread. Don't derail the SKYFALL thread with talk of a movie Nolan didn't actually make. Feel free to discuss his influence on the film, but as far as the franchise's future, save all of us who are sick of the Nolan worshipping of it and do it elsewhere.

 

[Kane52630]

Why must we discuss Nolan in EVERY thread. It is annoying as hell. Honestly.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if someone brings up Nolan in the poop thread.

Okay, as a moderator, I am going to say if you want to discuss Nolan doing a Bond film, do it in the Bond 24 thread. Don't derail the SKYFALL thread with talk of a movie Nolan didn't actually make. Feel free to discuss his influence on the film, but as far as the franchise's future, save all of us who are sick of the Nolan worshipping of it and do it elsewhere.

 

[MadVillainy]

I cant remember how long was Bond's "retirement"? 3 months?

 

[Octoberist]

Who else loved the title sequence? beautiful!

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah he was supposedly in hiding for three months.

It was a great title sequence and song. First time in a while the song was named after the title. A nice jazzy tune that puts in the vein of songs for movies like Goldfinger. It was a classic, old school title sequence.

And if you listen to it, there are like tunes of the Bond theme peppered through it.

 

[THUNDERSTRIKE]

Okay, as a moderator, I am going to say if you want to discuss Nolan doing a Bond film, do it in the Bond 24 thread. Don't derail the SKYFALL thread with talk of a movie Nolan didn't actually make. Feel free to discuss his influence on the film, but as far as the franchise's future, save all of us who are sick of the Nolan worshipping of it and do it elsewhere.

word to all that...

 

[The Englishman]

Okay, as a moderator, I am going to say if you want to discuss Nolan doing a Bond film, do it in the Bond 24 thread. Don't derail the SKYFALL thread with talk of a movie Nolan didn't actually make. Feel free to discuss his influence on the film, but as far as the franchise's future, save all of us who are sick of the Nolan worshipping of it and do it elsewhere.

While your flexing your power, can we have a Bond section please? This forum needs it.....

 

[Whiskey Tango]

 

[Octoberist]

Umm...that's unfortunate. Did you post this here because he's a Film Buff? I'm confused.

 

[TheVileOne]

Is the joke supposed to be the end of his obituary? I assume the joke is the line about going to see the new Bond movie in his obituary which is a bit odd.

 

[Octoberist]

Kinda weird...but touching..i guess?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

He's just a big enough Bond fan that he'd rather people go see the movie than blow a bunch of money on flowers. Just a slightly amusing thing I ran across, overanalyze if you must

 

[Octoberist]

When I first read it, it missed the Bond part. Ha!

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

So I'm not the only one who has noticed the Batman influence on Craig's Bond, right?

Skyfall-Great flick all around. Craig owns.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Just seen it.

Is it just me or did Raoul not remind anyone of the Joker? His planning to get caught and everything?

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Loki wanted to get caught, too. A very popular plot point these days, I guess.

 

[Rodrigo90]

But that seen in the Mi6 bunker screamed TDK scene with the interrogation between Joker and Batman.

Plus Silva dressed up like a copper to eliminate someone...like Joker did.

And the scene with the chopper playing the music screamed comic book Joker lol

 

[Visceral]

The Dark Knight is to America, what Skyfall is to Britain.

Okay I think that I've figured it out.

after the review I posted earlier and much thought on the film, I need to change my Skyfall opinion from 7/10 to 9.8/10 at least.

The more I think about it the more I realize what Mendes was doing with Bond was very intelligent.

The key is in the Dark Knight similarities. I am sure now that Mendes did them on purpose.

When I was young I believed that Batman and Bond were, except for a few defining attributes, the same character. I mean did you know that the opening scene from TDKR was ripped off from Licence to Kill? Did you know Skyhook was used in Thunderball, like 45 years before The Dark Knight? They both have a sense of honor, Q and Fox, the car, women, fighting, globetrotting, so on.

So what upset me about the film Skyfall at first was the fact that I thought it was less about the man Bond than the phenomena of the Bond films. In the review posted earlier the Fighting Temmarie and the Quote from Tennyson are symbols that the film is about Old British Tradition coming into conflict with Modernity.

I have always thought that Batman and Bond were symbols of masculine identity trying to good within the world through their own strength. I still don't think that I am wrong, and Mendes doesn't take that away.

Its funny, where as Mendes saw only differences between Batman and Bond, I saw only similarities. We american's only see similarities.

I would theorize now that when Mendes viewed The Dark Knight for the first time, he didn't see a story about masculine identity trying to do good within a fallen world, he instead saw a film about national identity. Our fears against terrorism surely mirror the fears the British have. I don't think Mendes thought The Dark Knight was about Bush, that theory never held much weight, instead we have brought the law into our own hands, possibly a statement on policing the world. Begins was very much a film about facing our fears as if Quantum is the League of Shadows, Silva is the Joker.

What makes Batman so American is that he sometimes lacks an identity, in Begins he left his home and searched the world for who he was. Many other nations are rich in tradition. America is not rich in tradition, it is very young and still trying to find an identity. Some would even argue that America's identity is that of a chameleon. Constantly changing to suit the needs of its people. This is America's tradition. Batman leaves home in Begins, searching for his identity. Then in the last few moments of the Dark Knight, Batman exclaims what his identity is to Lt. Gordon, "I am whatever Gotham (the world) needs me to be". Batman is neither a hero nor villain, but what is needed. And that's what a Dark Knight is.

I argue these somewhat realistic versions of our heroes is due in part to the reemergence of the Bourne Identity. The book is more important, in defining what Robert Ludlum was doing with the character. Ludlum was strictly writing an anti-bond, a character so without tradition he couldn't remember who he was. In the book, Ludlum even describes his face as having undergone plastic surgery so as to blend in more. Bourne never agrees with his superiors and in fact his superiors are the main antagonists. I find it interesting that Bourne was written in the same decade as the Wolverine, who is almost the exact same character. What also interests me is that the main inspiration for Batman Begins, Batman Year One. In Year One, Bruce Wayne arrives from out of town after sometime from a history that is mysterious unknown and unexplained. Wayne returns and wages war on what he views as his creators, the corrupt society and the corrupt government of that society. Just like Wolverine wages war against his creators, and Bourne rages against his superiors/creators.

These stories all came about during the Reagan era at time when American Patriotism was at an all time high. The Dark Knight came during the Bush administration when there was a similar patriotism.

The reason i am going so in depth is because Bond never revolts against his superiors, even when they shoot him in the chest.

America is all about revolution, Britain still loves the Queen. This is the chief difference Mendes is making with Bond.

When Bond and M are going back in time there is an insinuation. I find it so interesting and maddening that it is just an insinuation. People believe that going into Bond's past will take away his every man status, but Batman has that same status, and we know every part of his history. Hell Bourne is all about fighting to know that history. But Bond doesn't give a ****, even if M was responsible for the climbing accident that Bond's parents had. Bond still loves M. He is still going to fight to protect her.

M: I've ****ed this all up.

Bond: No you haven't, you were just doing your job.

That is not Bond talking to M so much as it might be the people of Britain's past talking to the people of Britain's future. it wasn't that long ago that Britain gave Hong Kong Back to China, and not to long ago Turkey's Ottoman Empire(Istanbul) was seen as a rival to the British Empire.

Like Bond going into retirement, the British Empire has release control of the world. One must wonder what is going on with the British National Identity now that the Empire is has seen its final days.

But like Bond coming out of retirement when he is needed. The British Tradition is here to stay. Some of the language used, like "some men are coming here to kill us, we are going to kill them first". Are statements about foreign policy changing.

I still have a question, just one. Skyfall is the name of Bond's childhood home, which is symbolic of going back to your tradition and roots, in order to survive the future. But there is still more symbolism for why that is the title of the film.