James Bond In Skyfall - Part 8

[the dmg]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who liked Quantum of Solace, its the perfect yang to Casino Roayle's ying.

I enjoyed QoS, plus I give it a little more slack because of the strike, which made things difficult.

 

[chamber-music]

Its funny Ralph Fiennes is in Skyfall as he auditioned for the role of Bond in 1994.

 

[the dmg]

Its funny Ralph Fiennes is in Skyfall as he auditioned for the role of Bond in 1994.

I think he would still make a great Bond.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Yes, he's too hammy for a Bond villain. Even with their ridiculous plans, Bond villains still have some restraint to the point in which you can take them seriously. The further the movie went on, the more ridiculous the character became, and by the end before his death he was pretty much a complete joke.

Indeed the media mogul megalomaniac as a Bond villain is a great concept, but the concept goes largely unexplored and underdeveloped. I think he could have done much more to use his media power even further.

I thought, after all the hype, Donald Pleasence as Blofeld was cartoonishly over the top (the least of the film's problems); hence my preference of the far more menacing Telly Savalas, who I consider to be the best ever Bond villain. Adolfo Cell as Largo comes in at second place. I am partial to Le Chiffre as well. Yes, he was a pawn but he had a certain panache that was cool. Maybe it was the scarred eyes, i dunno. I also liked Charles Gray's unexpectedly different look and performance as Blofeld (probably the only good thing in the film).

 

[regwec]

Agreed. Carver could have turned James Bond into a high priority terrorist with Bond's face plastered all over the world.

Instead we get a small headline with

"British Secret service agent and Chinese agent found dead in south china sea"


Carver could have used satellites to find bond. Bugged his NOKIA phone.

You make a very good point. There was an opportunity for Carver to blow MI6 and presumably most of its allied intelligence services out into the open. He didn't need that hair-brained plot of causing WWIII in order to write newspaper articles about it; he could have blackmailed Western governments for a fortune.

I also don't understand why he needed such an elaborate scheme to gain access to Chinese TV networks. His company was the global market leader anyway. He could have just submitted a detailed business plan to the Chinese authorities, being careful to stress added value and a culture of compliance with the political sensitivities of the regime.

But no, out comes the stealth ship and the chainsaw torpedoes.

How did this fellow become a billionaire again?

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

But no, out comes the stealth ship and the chainsaw torpedoes.

How did this fellow become a billionaire again?

Dude, he had chainsaw torpedoes!!

 

[Gold Samurai]

x

How did this fellow become a billionaire again?

The Raymond Benson book fleshes out SO MUCH



-Carver's father was a success owner of a dozen English newspapers

-Carver's father, Lord Roverman was attempting to expand his news empire in Hong Kong. Roverman cheats on his wife with a german prostitute.

The German prostitute dies in child birth.

-His father dumped Carver to a poor Chinese family

-Carver becomes a successful news anchor in China. He acquires the name "The Emperor of the Air"

-Carver learns about his father, the german prostitute and getting her pregnant.

-Carver becomes obsessed with learning about his father

-Carver gets in touch with a german named Hans Kriegler at a bar. Han's recommends "Mr Stamper"

-Lord Roverman is caught with a mistress and some scandalous photos.

-Carver basically blackmails his father to rewrite his will.

Stamper kills the mistress and gives Lord Roverman a choice. Shoot himself or be branded a murderer of his mistress.

Roverman shoots himself. In a few weeks his will declares Elliot get everything.

In a few short years, Carver starts "Carver Media Group"


-Carver Films heavily promotes their new animated movie. There would not be a parent on earth who could avoid feeling guilty if they didn't see the movie

-Carver toy stores and theme parks

-Micro Carver software with bugs in it which causes people to constantly update.

Carver Publishing which capitalizes on celeb drug overdoses and murders

 

[The Englishman]

The Raymond Benson book fleshes out SO MUCH



-Carver's father was a success owner of a dozen English newspapers

-Carver's father, Lord Roverman was attempting to expand his news empire in Hong Kong. Roverman cheats on his wife with a german prostitute.

The German prostitute dies in child birth.

-His father dumped Carver to a poor Chinese family

-Carver becomes a successful news anchor in China. He acquires the name "The Emperor of the Air"

-Carver learns about his father, the german prostitute and getting her pregnant.

-Carver becomes obsessed with learning about his father

-Carver gets in touch with a german named Hans Kriegler at a bar. Han's recommends "Mr Stamper"

-Lord Roverman is caught with a mistress and some scandalous photos.

-Carver basically blackmails his father to rewrite his will.

Stamper kills the mistress and gives Lord Roverman a choice. Shoot himself or be branded a murderer of his mistress.

Roverman shoots himself. In a few weeks his will declares Elliot get everything.

In a few short years, Carver starts "Carver Media Group"


-Carver Films heavily promotes their new animated movie. There would not be a parent on earth who could avoid feeling guilty if they didn't see the movie

-Carver toy stores and theme parks

-Micro Carver software with bugs in it which causes people to constantly update.

Carver Publishing which capitalizes on celeb drug overdoses and murders

All that sounds Bollocks, I'm glad I didnt read the TND book....

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

You make a very good point. There was an opportunity for Carver to blow MI6 and presumably most of its allied intelligence services out into the open. He didn't need that hair-brained plot of causing WWIII in order to write newspaper articles about it; he could have blackmailed Western governments for a fortune.

I also don't understand why he needed such an elaborate scheme to gain access to Chinese TV networks. His company was the global market leader anyway. He could have just submitted a detailed business plan to the Chinese authorities, being careful to stress added value and a culture of compliance with the political sensitivities of the regime.

But no, out comes the stealth ship and the chainsaw torpedoes.

How did this fellow become a billionaire again?

You could say the same thing about Goldfinger or Zorin.

And what is wrong with being hammy? This is James Bond. Most of the villains are really hammy.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

There's being and hammy still being a badass, like Goldfinger and Zorin were, and being hammy to the point that you won't be taken seriously, and ruining the movie, like guys like Carver, Hugo Drax, and Graves were.

I think if Carver was played as being more unstable and unpredictable liked Zorin was, he probably could have been a better villain (and some justifying the goofiness more).

 

[DACrowe]

Carver is a great parody/satire of Rupert Murdoch. In the years since TND and Americans have been more intensely introduced to his form of "journalism" with Fox News,it has only become a more enjoyable send-up.

If we are going to nitpick that his scheme is ridiculous about starting WWIII can we talk about Stromberg wanting to start it so we could all "live under the sea" in little glass cages or that Zorin and Goldfinger wanted to kill thousands (in Goldfinger's case) or millions (Zorin) and wreck the Western Economy to increase the value of their personal business? Can anyone exactly explain what Dr. No's plan was for those rockets? Why did SPECTRE try to start WWIII so many times?

It's a Bond movie. And other than FRWL and CR, the motivations are always ridiculous. It is part of the charm.

 

[Homer J. Fong]

If we are going to nitpick that his scheme is ridiculous about starting WWIII can we talk about Stromberg wanting to start it so we could all "live under the sea" in little glass cages or that Zorin and Goldfinger wanted to kill thousands (in Goldfinger's case) or millions (Zorin) and wreck the Western Economy to increase the value of their personal business? Can anyone exactly explain what Dr. No's plan was for those rockets? Why did SPECTRE try to start WWIII so many times?

It's a Bond movie. And other than FRWL and CR, the motivations are always ridiculous. It is part of the charm.

There you go.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I didn't find Drax hammy. Carver was hammy. Drax was just incredibly boring.

Carver came off as the villain in a South Park episode.

He actually had some (probably unintentionally) funny moments.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Carver is a great parody/satire of Rupert Murdoch. In the years since TND and Americans have been more intensely introduced to his form of "journalism" with Fox News,it has only become a more enjoyable send-up.

If we are going to nitpick that his scheme is ridiculous about starting WWIII can we talk about Stromberg wanting to start it so we could all "live under the sea" in little glass cages or that Zorin and Goldfinger wanted to kill thousands (in Goldfinger's case) or millions (Zorin) and wreck the Western Economy to increase the value of their personal business? Can anyone exactly explain what Dr. No's plan was for those rockets? Why did SPECTRE try to start WWIII so many times?

It's a Bond movie. And other than FRWL and CR, the motivations are always ridiculous. It is part of the charm.

Hehe, yeah, that is true... Murdoch is a propagandist and a crook whose brand of "journalism" actually does make people dumber or at least less informed than most people (this has literally been proven). Actually, when you put it that way, Carver wasn't a cruel enough parody of Murdoch... that corrupt old bastard deserves worse.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Carver is a great parody/satire of Rupert Murdoch. In the years since TND and Americans have been more intensely introduced to his form of "journalism" with Fox News,it has only become a more enjoyable send-up.

If we are going to nitpick that his scheme is ridiculous about starting WWIII can we talk about Stromberg wanting to start it so we could all "live under the sea" in little glass cages or that Zorin and Goldfinger wanted to kill thousands (in Goldfinger's case) or millions (Zorin) and wreck the Western Economy to increase the value of their personal business? Can anyone exactly explain what Dr. No's plan was for those rockets? Why did SPECTRE try to start WWIII so many times?

It's a Bond movie. And other than FRWL and CR, the motivations are always ridiculous. It is part of the charm.

There are a few others. Blofeld in OHMSS had a silly evil scheme, but he was motivated mainly by getting a pardon for his past crimes. Kristatos in FYEO was a Commie spy who wanted to steal a decoding device for the Soviets and blame it on his main criminal rival. Koskov in TLD wants his rival in the KGB out of the way and Whitaker is helping him because he has a weapons deal with Koskov that the KGB cancelled.

Notice that Blofeld is the only good villain in the bunch, showing that there is more to being a great Bond villain than having motivations that make sense.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Carver is a great parody/satire of Rupert Murdoch. In the years since TND and Americans have been more intensely introduced to his form of "journalism" with Fox News,it has only become a more enjoyable send-up.

If we are going to nitpick that his scheme is ridiculous about starting WWIII can we talk about Stromberg wanting to start it so we could all "live under the sea" in little glass cages or that Zorin and Goldfinger wanted to kill thousands (in Goldfinger's case) or millions (Zorin) and wreck the Western Economy to increase the value of their personal business? Can anyone exactly explain what Dr. No's plan was for those rockets? Why did SPECTRE try to start WWIII so many times?

It's a Bond movie. And other than FRWL and CR, the motivations are always ridiculous. It is part of the charm.

Carver still lacked most of the positive elements of a Bond villain, like charm and/or intimidation. Jurgens acting made you believe that Stromberg was insane. He fed his secretary to sharks. So was Zorin with Walken, which was one of the few good things about A View To A Kill. He opened fire on his own henchmen!

Thinking about it, I think Carver was missing another important aspect and it was that memorable character moment. That one crazy moment people will remember you for as a Bond villain. Goldfinger nearly killed Bond, Grant has the train scene, Savalas Blofeld had Bond's wife killed, and it goes on. Carver's most memorable moment, unfortunately for him, is mocking Wai Lin's martial arts.

I'm not criticizing the grand scheme of the Carver's plan, but the actions taken I felt were underdeveloped and half assed by screenwriters. I could have forgiven all of that if his character just didn't suck so much.

 

[Gianakin_]

I never understood in OHMSS why Blofeld didn't realize that the man posing as Sir Hillary was in fact James Bond, since the movie had made clear they had met before. Anyone knows what that was about?

Also, Greene was one of the most low key villains only because his plan was equally low key. They suited each other. But his eyes really made him memorable enough to me.

Carver, Drax, DAF Blofeld, Whitaker and Graves ticked all the necessary boxes for them to be the worst Bond villains (and you have to tick ALL the boxes to get a 100% awful villain): over the top, hammy, non threatening (no matter how serious their plan may look on paper), boring (which may in first glance contradict the over-the-top box, but they're not mutually exclusive imo). I don't mind the right amount of cheesei n my Bond villain.

 

[AnneFan]

I never understoodin OHMSS why Blofeld didn't realize that the man posing as Sir Hillary was in fact James Bond, since the movie had made clear they had met before. Anyone knows what that was about?

Thunderball, OHMSS and YOLT (in that order) is the Blofeld trilogy in the books. Director Peter Hunt pretty much ignored the movie YOLT (yes, they do show a montage of that film in the title sequence) and took after 1965's Thunderball.

 

[Gianakin_]

Oh, so it's just a f**kup. Thanks!

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I never understoodin OHMSS why Blofeld didn't realize that the man posing as Sir Hillary was in fact James Bond, since the movie had made clear they had met before. Anyone knows what that was about?

Also, Greene was one of the most low key villains only because his plan was equally low key. They suited each other. But his eyes really made him memorable enough to me.

Carver, Drax, DAF Blofeld, Whitaker and Graves ticked all the necessary boxes for them to be the worst Bond villains (and you have to tick ALL the boxes to get a 100% awful villain): over the top, hammy, non threatening (no matter how serious their plan may look on paper), boring (which may in first glance contradict the over-the-top box, but they're not mutually exclusive imo). I don't mind the right amount of cheesei n my Bond villain.

With OHMSS, they wanted to actually be incredibly faithful to the source material, even to the point that it causes a few continuity errors with YOLT. Another one is Bond using a huge ass safe cracking device when in YOLT he had a much smaller device that didn't require a construction worker to bring up to the room.

And yeah, except for Whitaker, those villains are the worst Bond villains. Whitaker is meh. Neither Or Koskov were that smart and their plan reflects that as it depended on way too many outside factors for it to work.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Thunderball, OHMSS and YOLT (in that order) is the Blofeld trilogy in the books. Director Peter Hunt pretty much ignored the movie YOLT (yes, they do show a montage of that film in the title sequence) and took after 1965's Thunderball.

And Guy Hamilton did the same thing with OHMSS when making DAF.

I wouldn't say Hunt fully ignored YOLT. Bond finds out that Blofeld is #1 and it's a natural transition that he wants to chase down Blofeld after YOLT.

 

[Gianakin_]

Since someone mentioned liking Never Say Never Again in the Last Movie You've Seen Thread, I'd like to take this opportunity and say that, whereas Connery was an absolute behemoth and in top shape in that one, the movie was so very crappy that I can't believe this was made by the director of ESB.

I did a Bondathon recently and I decided to give it a watch after I had finished with QoS. I couldn't finish it.

 

[Abudefduf]

Since someone mentioned liking Never Say Never Again in the Last Movie You've Seen Thread, I'd like to take this opportunity and say that, whereas Connery was an absolute behemoth and in top shape in that one, the movie was so very crappy that I can't believe this was made by the director of ESB.

Lol, that was me. I don't know, I started watching the movie expecting it to be awful, but in the end it was just... mediocre. Maybe that's why I didn't hate it.

 

[Gianakin_]

I get you. It wasn't badly made or something and, like I said, I was more sold on Connery as Bond than Moore in Octopussy. But it's a weird-ass movie. Being a remake didn't help, either.

 

[The Joker]

Carver still lacked most of the positive elements of a Bond villain, like charm and/or intimidation. Jurgens acting made you believe that Stromberg was insane. He fed his secretary to sharks. So was Zorin with Walken, which was one of the few good things about A View To A Kill. He opened fire on his own henchmen!

Thinking about it, I think Carver was missing another important aspect and it was that memorable character moment. That one crazy moment people will remember you for as a Bond villain. Goldfinger nearly killed Bond, Grant has the train scene, Savalas Blofeld had Bond's wife killed, and it goes on. Carver's most memorable moment, unfortunately for him, is mocking Wai Lin's martial arts.

Exactly. The best Bond villains got to show just how crazy or evil they were. Goldfinger had more moments than just nearly killing Bond. He had a girl murdered and painted in gold. He gassed all his gangster partners to death, then had another one crushed in a scrap yard crusher. His obsession with winning at cards, golf etc by cheating was brilliant.

Carver did have his own wife killed, but it's glossed over so quickly. It's the Dr. Kaufman character, who was brilliant, that steals all the glory for that by bragging about how badly she struggled, and how good he is as a skilled murderer for hire. He had more charm and intimidation in his few minutes of screen time than Carver had in the whole movie.