James Bond In Skyfall - Part 8

[Gianakin_]

Well yeah, especially if you consider that Brosnan wasn't at his peak when they let him go, nor was that the real reason for him being replaced.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They already screwed up by missing their 2010 film. Don't do this to me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It is so hard to rank what I consider to be the truly "bad films" in the series. The top 12-15 is pretty easy, with some changes it order. But they are pretty much the same. But when you get to those last few it really feels like it depends on what you consider less offensive imo.

1. Casino Royale
2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
3. From Russia with Love
4. GoldenEye
5. Goldfinger
6. Thunderball (4-6 change order quite a bit)
7. Quantum of Solace
8. Dr. No
9. The Spy Who Loved Me
10. The Living Daylights
11. The World is Not Enough
12. You Only Live Twice
13. For Your Eyes Only
14. Live and Let Die
15. License to Kill

Now here is where it gets tricky. I don't find much joy watching any of these films.
16. Octopussy
17. Die Another Day (Rosamund Pike and Cuba place this over TND)
18. Tomorrow Never Dies
19. Moonraker
20. The Man with the Golden Gun
21. Diamonds Are Forever
22. A View to a Kill

 

[Gianakin_]

Tom Hiddleston for Bond in 2018.

 

[Gianakin_]

Our Top 5s are identical. Swap TSWLM for FYEO and our Top 10s would've been, too.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Tom Hiddleston for Bond in 2018.

I just peed myself a little.

 

[Gianakin_]

In a good way?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Our Top 5s are identical. Swap TSWLM for FYEO and our Top 10s would've been, too.

Casino Royale right now is my undisputed #1, and really the top three are kind of set in stone at this point. From Russia with Love use to be #2, but the more times I watch them, OHMSS just takes it.

Goldfinger has fallen down my list a bit. It is a very good film, but it doesn't hit me the way GoldenEye does. All four of the major villains worked incredibly well for me, the Bond girl is gorgeous and not superfluous and it has a lot of my favorite scenes in the series (PTS, Tank chase, the massacre, driving test, anytime Xenia is on screen, etc.). The Brosnan films had such a promising start. Thunderball, I really, really like the story of and it has a lot of great scenes. But the bits I don't quite love just drag on to long, mainly the underwater combat. Just not dynamic enough for me.

TSWLM makes it into the top ten because it is probably my second favorite Moore performance, I love the car chase despite some of the cheese and the film is just pretty.

A know QoS gets a lot of crap and some of it is well deserved, but the more I watch it, I am confident it my placement. It gets my juices flowing.

In a good way?

Yep. He is like second only to James McAvoy for my favorite actors in their prime.

I never really thought about it, but I love him and the idea of him as Bond sounds great. Especially considering his age. He'd be 37 then. Perfect age for the role.

 

[Gianakin_]

Casino Royale right now is my undisputed #1, and really the top three are kind of set in stone at this point. From Russia with Love use to be #2, but the more times I watch them, OHMSS just takes it.

FRWL and OHMSS are interchangeable, depending on how much I can stomach the Sir Hillary Bray or the Klem wannabe scenes in the latter. But any scene with Tracy and her father, any scene with Telly and any scene with Lazenby kicking ass ('cause he was BRINGING it) are so powerful that I almost forget about the movie's shortcomings. Oh, and DAT SCORE (best Bond theme, imo).

Goldfinger has fallen down my list a bit. It is a very good film, but it doesn't hit me the way GoldenEye does. All four of the major villains worked incredible well for me, the Bond girl is gorgeous and not superfluous and it has a lot of my favorite scenes in the series (PTS, Tank chase, the massacre, driving test, anytime Xenia is on screen, etc.).The Brosnan films had such a promising start. Thunderball, I really, really like the story of and a lot of great scenes. But the bits I don't quite love just drag on to long, mainly the underwater combat. Just not dynamic enough for me.

TB's PTS has one of the 3 most brutal Bond fights ever (the others being Bond/Grant and Bond/Alec) and the villains just work. So does the main plot and the revenge subplot for Domino. But yeah, the underwater scenes were the crew and director showcasing what they could do with their new cameras. TB needed to be at least 10 minutes shorter.
GF... is an epitome for Bond. That's why it's almost always been used as the blueprint for Bond flicks. But GE was more emotional to me and the story referencing the end of the Cold War, as well as the villain being that magnificent bastard Sean Bean... yeah.

TSWLM makes it into the top ten because it is probably my second favorite Moore performance, I love the car chase despite some of the cheese and the film is just pretty.

I just always liked his chemistry with XXX (Jesus). And Stromberg, aka Blofeld no2 was just insane. So was Jaws and so was Moore's cold execution of the other henchman (and Stromberg). But I like FYEO for the plot, for Greece (hey, sue me) and god damn Topol. And we also get a cold Bond as he finishes off Locque. F**k that hipster villain, Rog!

A know QoS gets a lot of crap and some of it is well deserved, but the more I watch it, I am confident it my placement. It gets my juices flowing.

It'll be a black sheep forever. Its biggest crime is not being distinctly Bond. CR achieved new age and classic in a much better way (and SF may do even better), but QoS was a victim of circumstances and a director who just couldn't do action. But Craig shines in his subtlety and his relationship with M is amazing. Also, Olga is one of the better Bond girls and it didn't bother me one bit that Bond didn't bang her. Their relationship was just great. Them killing off Mathis is inexcusable, though. That's 90s Bond cheapness in blackmailing audiences to care.

Yep. He is like second only to James McAvoy for my favorite actors in their prime.

I never really thought about it, but I love him and the idea of him as Bond sounds great. Especially considering his age. He'd be 37 then. Perfect age for the role.

He'll be the creepiest Bond, that's for sure.

But I think he could bring it. And I agree, 37/38-48/50 is the best age range for an actor to do an entire Bond run. But they mustn't be too baby faced, 'cause there are bigger chances they may show their age. Hiddleston's a contender for that, I think.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Sigh...

1) From Russia With Love.
2)Casino Royale
3)GoldenEye
4)Goldfinger
5)On Her Majestys Secret Service
6)Thunderball
7)Dr.No
8)The Spy Who loved Me
9)For Your Eyes Only
10)Licence To Kill

There's yer Goddammned list

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

We have the same movies in our top 8. t:

 

[Roose Bolton]

Actually... I'd almost put GoldenEye as #2

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Sigh...

1) From Russia With Love.
2)Casino Royale
3)GoldenEye
4)Goldfinger
5)On Her Majestys Secret Service
6)Thunderball
7)Dr.No
8)The Spy Who loved Me
9)For Your Eyes Only
10)Licence To Kill

There's yer Goddammned list

I can't take any list seriously that has License to Kill above The Living Daylights.

Joking. I'd love to hear your opinion on the two Dalton films. I like License to Kill, but there is just this weird vibe to it for me. There is the ninjas and this odd Miami Vice/Scarface thing going on that feels far too blatant.

 

[Gianakin_]

The only things I liked in LTK was Q working on the field, the final fight, Sanchez's death and Leiter's fate (I don't hate the character, I just like consequences to Bond's action and life). This was as much a TV movie as AVTAK, imo.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Actually... I'd almost put GoldenEye as #2

Well other than placement of course. Goldeneye's my #2 because I grew up with Brosnan as Bond and it's my most fondly remembered Bond movie. It had show what a modern post Cold War Bond movie can be without really sacrificing a lot of the Bond elements like CR did (which is something I don't take away from the movie, but it hurts itself in my rankings because of it). It was the movie that confirmed that James Bond, as a character, to quote M, "Isn't a relic of the Cold War" as was implied with the financial failures of License to Kill (even though License to Kill isn't a bad movie and was affected by several outside circumstances. It still is the lowest grossing Bond movie though.)

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I can't take any list seriously that has License to Kill above The Living Daylights.

Joking. I'd love to hear your opinion on the two Dalton films. I like License to Kill, but there is just this weird vibe to it for me. There is the ninjas and this odd Miami Vice/Scarface thing going on that feels far too blatant.

The only things I liked in LTK was Q working on the field, the final fight, Sanchez's death and Leiter's fate (I don't hate the character, I just like consequences to Bond's action and life). This was as much a TV movie as AVTAK, imo.

I used to like License to Kill more, but then I watched it again I hated how humorless it is. Dalton's Bond has no wit or charm to him in the movie except for only a select number of scenes. Plus, like Giankin said, there's nothing that sets License to Kill apart from other late 80s movies.

 

[Gianakin_]

Plus, like Giankin said, there's nothing that sets License to Kill apart from other late 80s movies.

Oh, yes there is: the latter had badass action stars, whereas the former had a Shakesperean god of an acotr trying to find some comfort in the part.

And the lack of humour didn't bother me in QoS. In fact, LTK had several humorous moments, but they were all SO damn bad...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

FRWL and OHMSS are interchangeable, depending on how much I can stomach the Sir Hillary Bray or the Klem wannabe scenes in the latter. But any scene with Tracy and her father, any scene with Telly and any scene with Lazenby kicking ass ('cause he was BRINGING it) are so powerful that I almost forget about the movie's shortcomings. Oh, and DAT SCORE (best Bond theme, imo).

Completely agree. The score is my favorite by a long way. Lazenby is a very convincing fighter and I just love the whole storming of Piz Gloria. The build up alone is movie making magic.

TB's PTS has one of the 3 most brutal Bond fights ever (the others being Bond/Grant and Bond/Alec) and the villains just work. So does the main plot and the revenge subplot for Domino. But yeah, the underwater scenes were the crew and director showcasing what they could do with their new cameras. TB needed to be at least 10 minutes shorter.

I'd say my top two brutal Bond fights have to be in Casino Royale. The "first kill" in the PTS just looks painful. The cracking porcelain, the sound engineering on the blows and just editing makes it look so fierce.

But my #1 is the stair fight. The sword, the painful way they get down the stairs, the first guys death. Again beautiful sound engineering and editing. But what clinches it for me is the look on Vesper's face at the end and how Bond, breathing heavy, gives her instructions.

GF... is an epitome for Bond. That's why it's almost always been used as the blueprint for Bond flicks. But GE was more emotional to me and the story referencing the end of the Cold War, as well as the villain being that magnificent bastard Sean Bean... yeah.

Very well put and I completely agree.

I just always liked his chemistry with XXX (Jesus). And Stromberg, aka Blofeld no2 was just insane. So was Jaws and so was Moore's cold execution of the other henchman (and Stromberg). But I like FYEO for the plot, for Greece (hey, sue me) and god damn Topol. And we also get a cold Bond as he finishes off Locque. F**k that hipster villain, Rog!

Perhaps I will have to give FYEO another watch.

It'll be a black sheep forever. Its biggest crime is not being distinctly Bond. CR achieved new age and classic in a much better way (and SF may do even better), but QoS was a victim of circumstances and a director who just couldn't do action. But Craig shines in his subtlety and his relationship with M is amazing. Also, Olga is one of the better Bond girls and it didn't bother me one bit that Bond didn't bang her. Their relationship was just great. Them killing off Mathis is inexcusable, though. That's 90s Bond cheapness in blackmailing audiences to care.

Yeah, I love Bond, Camille and M in that film so much.

You mention Craig's subtlety and I think it really shines in his escape from M's agents.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I can't take any list seriously that has License to Kill above The Living Daylights.

Joking. I'd love to hear your opinion on the two Dalton films. I like License to Kill, but there is just this weird vibe to it for me. There is the ninjas and this odd Miami Vice/Scarface thing going on that feels far too blatant.

It does feel very strange and the whole thing was very street crime/small time, at least in terms of what we expect from a Bond film... but perhaps that's why I love it; it's such a small story in comparison to say, Thunderball and I think it works to show Bond as a human being. He's not always just out there on the job, sometimes things really get to him and hurt him. So I liked seeing him in this very personal story. I will say the direction and productions values seem poor but I Dalton carried it for me, he managed to capture the extremely bitter, tired character that Fleming created, especially in his later novels. So yeah I enjoyed the film quite a bit.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I used to like License to Kill more, but then I watched it again I hated how humorless it is. Dalton's Bond has no wit or charm to him in the movie except for only a select number of scenes. Plus, like Giankin said, there's nothing that sets License to Kill apart from other late 80s movies.

What is so ridiculous is that Dalton showed just how much natural charm he had in TLD. He looked built for this. And then they just went completely the other direction.

Well other than placement of course. Goldeneye's my #2 because I grew up with Brosnan as Bond and it's my most fondly remembered Bond movie. It had show what a modern post Cold War Bond movie can be without really sacrificing a lot of the Bond elements like CR did (which is something I don't take away from the movie, but it hurts itself in my rankings because of it). It was the movie that confirmed that James Bond, as a character, to quote M, "Isn't a relic of the Cold War" as was implied with the financial failures of License to Kill (even though License to Kill isn't a bad movie and was affected by several outside circumstances. It still is the lowest grossing Bond movie though.)

I too grew up with Brosnan's Bond. I use to think I remembered it more fondly then it actually deserved. But nope, still pretty great, especially in the context of Bond.

 

[Gianakin_]

Completely agree. The score is my favorite by a long way. Lazenby is a very convincing fighter and I just love the whole storming of Piz Gloria. The build up alone is movie making magic.

Remember his face when he slaps Tracy in the hotel room and much later when he holds down a Blofeld thug in the snow, leering at him to not say anything until the rest of the pursuers are gone? Only Craig has managed to give us such a deathly stare since then and even he has help from the vampiric colour of his eyes. Lazenby was just natural in this. And he NAILED the last scene. Connery wouldn't have done it. Oh, what DAF could've been with him (and, unavoidably, a different script).

I'd say my top two brutal Bond fights have to be in Casino Royale. The "first kill" in the PTS just looks painful. The cracking porcelain, the sound engineering on the blows and just editing makes it look so fierce.

But my #1 is the stair fight. The sword, the painful way they get down the stairs, the first guys death. Again beautiful sound engineering and editing. But what clinches it for me is the look on Vesper's face at the end and how Bond, breathing heavy, gives her instructions.

How the f**k could I have forgotten CR and the 2 fights you mentioned?

Perhaps I will have to give FYEO another watch.

What detractions did you find in it that prevented you from putting it highr on your list?

You mention Craig's subtlety and I think it really shines in his escape from M's agents.

Forster seemed to be confident in DC in that scene you mention, since everything relied on his acting. If you remember, as he disposes them, the music doesn't even get louder or action-y or anything.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well other than placement of course. Goldeneye's my #2 because I grew up with Brosnan as Bond and it's my most fondly remembered Bond movie. It had show what a modern post Cold War Bond movie can be without really sacrificing a lot of the Bond elements like CR did (which is something I don't take away from the movie, but it hurts itself in my rankings because of it). It was the movie that confirmed that James Bond, as a character, to quote M, "Isn't a relic of the Cold War" as was implied with the financial failures of License to Kill (even though License to Kill isn't a bad movie and was affected by several outside circumstances. It still is the lowest grossing Bond movie though.)

Personally I think GoldenEye is an epic of a Bond film, and yeah it was the first Bond I saw at the movies so there's a level of nostalgia but I think it retrospect it's only gotten better. Also helps that it had the best villain in the franchises history.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It does feel very strange and the whole thing was very street crime/small time, at least in terms of what we expect from a Bond film... but perhaps that's why I love it; it's such a small story in comparison to say, Thunderball and I think it works to show Bond as a human being. He's not always just out there on the job, sometimes things really get to him and hurt him. So I liked seeing him in this very personal story. I will say the direction and productions values seem poor but I Dalton carried it for me, he managed to capture the extremely bitter, tired character that Fleming created, especially in his later novels. So yeah I enjoyed the film quite a bit.

And that's another criticism that I have with License to Kill. Bond going after a drug dealer just doesn't feel right, now matter how powerful the drug dealer is. He goes after international terrorists.

And I think that was my problem with Dalton, he plays the character straight from the books. I think that Bond the movie character is different from Bond the book character and should always be different. With that said, I'm not saying he should be completely different, but I feel like the best way to go is combining elements of the previous movies and elements of the Bond books.

 

[Gianakin_]

My first Bond movie at the cinema was TND. Missed GE for some reason. I remember kinda liking it, but even then it was clearly a step down from GE (which I had caught on TV). I wanted to cry in 1999, between TWINE and The End of Days. I had to ride a bus for 40 minutes to get to the closest good cinema, only to witness 2 terrible movies and, worst of all, missed opportunities (both of 'em).

 

[Roose Bolton]

And that's another criticism that I have with License to Kill. Bond going after a drug dealer just doesn't feel right, now matter how powerful the drug dealer is. He goes after international terrorists.

And I think that was my problem with Dalton, he plays the character straight from the books. I think that Bond the movie character is different from Bond the book character and should always be different. With that said, I'm not saying he should be completely different, but I feel like the best way to go is combining elements of the previous movies and elements of the Bond books.

You're right in a certain way; the film Bond has more natural charisma and charm than the book Bond. I look at it in a spectrum like this:
Film Bond: Connery
*
*
*-Craig.
*
*
Book Bond: Dalton

Craig is a nice balance of both I think.