James Bond In Skyfall - Part 8

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Personally I think GoldenEye is an epic of a Bond film, and yeah it was the first Bond I saw at the movies so there's a level of nostalgia but I think it retrospect it's only gotten better. Also helps that it had the best villain in the franchises history.

I too grew up with Brosnan's Bond. I use to think I remembered it more fondly then it actually deserved. But nope, still pretty great, especially in the context of Bond.

What's funny about Goldeneye are the people who put it down because of how great the videogame is, and I have to point out to those people that the video game was released two years after movie (around the time of Tomorrow Never Dies, in fact).

Remember his face when he slaps Tracy in the hotel room and much later when he holds down a Blofeld thug in the snow, leering at him to not say anything until the rest of the pursuers are gone? Only Craig has managed to give us such a deathly stare since then and even he has help from the vampiric colour of his eyes. Lazenby was just natural in this. And he NAILED the last scene. Connery wouldn't have done it. Oh, what DAF could've been with him (and, unavoidably, a different script).

I'm curious to see how Connery would have done with the last scene. Connery I think could nailed it. The guy studies his roles a lot. I remember reading "Making Movies" with Sidney Lumet, and when he directed Connery in one of his movies, he said that Connery was one of the first guys on set, and he would do nothing before shooting but study the script for that day. That's dedication.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It does feel very strange and the whole thing was very street crime/small time, at least in terms of what we expect from a Bond film... but perhaps that's why I love it; it's such a small story in comparison to say, Thunderball and I think it works to show Bond as a human being. He's not always just out there on the job, sometimes things really get to him and hurt him. So I liked seeing him in this very personal story. I will say the direction and productions values seem poor but I Dalton carried it for me, he managed to capture the extremely bitter, tired character that Fleming created, especially in his later novels. So yeah I enjoyed the film quite a bit.

I completely get this, and I think it would be a good way to describe how I feel about OoS. While not perfect, the very nature of the film just appeals to your senses.

I always think it is an interesting debate. Because with all the other Bonds with multiple films I feels like their is pretty much a consensus on what is their best film. With Connery, while you will get a lot of votes for pretty much any film other then DAF, the majority will usually say FRWL. With Moore it is TSWLM, with a small, but respectable percentage for FYEO. Brosnan, its GoldenEye and for Craig right now it is definitely Casino Royale.

But with Dalton, I think it is the most evenly divided between his two films. About half like TLD better and the other have prefers LTK.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

You're right in a certain way; the film Bond has more natural charisma and charm than the book Bond. I look at it in a spectrum like this:
Film Bond: Connery
*
*
*-Craig.
*
*
Book Bond: Dalton

Craig is a nice balance of both I think.

I'd put it more like this:

Film Bond: Moore
*Connery
* Brosnan

I don't really think there's a neutral.

* Craig
* Lazenby
Book Bond: Dalton

 

[Gianakin_]

What's funny about Goldeneye are the people who put it down because of how great the videogame is, and I have to point out to those people that the video game was released two years after movie (around the time of Tomorrow Never Dies, in fact).

There wasn't even a N64 in '95, was there?

I'm curious to see how Connery would have done with the last scene. Connery I think could nailed it. The guy studies his roles a lot. I remember reading "Making Movies" with Sidney Lumet, and when he directed Connery in one of his movies, he said that Connery was one of the first guys on set, and he would do nothing before shooting but study the script for that day. That's dedication.

I don't think he could've done it. He's emotionally detached in most of his roles. Not to say he isn't an amazing actor, but this particular scene wasn't just about Bond breaking up in tears. It required a specific kind of subtlety that Connery lacks, imo. I suspect they would've changed the emotional center of the script to fit him.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

My first Bond movie at the cinema was TND. Missed GE for some reason. I remember kinda liking it, but even then it was clearly a step down from GE (which I had caught on TV). I wanted to cry in 1999, between TWINE and The End of Days. I had to ride a bus for 40 minutes to get to the closest good cinema, only to witness 2 terrible movies and, worst of all, missed opportunities (both of 'em).

The huge problem in The World is Not Enough I like to compare to placing a square peg in a circular hole. I feel like there was an attempt at deviating from the Bond formula, but then it got forced back into the formula, which really hurts the movie severely.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I completely get this, and I think it would be a good way to describe how I feel about OoS. While not perfect, the very nature of the film just appeals to your senses.

I always think it is an interesting debate. Because with all the other Bonds with multiple films I feels like their is pretty much a consensus on what is their best film. With Connery, while you will get a lot of votes for pretty much any film other then DAF, the majority will usually say FRWL. With Moore it is TSWLM, with a small, but respectable percentage for FYEO. Brosnan, its GoldenEye and for Craig right now it is definitely Casino Royale.

But with Dalton, I think it is the most evenly divided between his two films. About half like TLD better and the other have prefers LTK.

Oh definitely. I enjoy QoS quite a bit, I'd probably rate it 11th.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

There wasn't even a N64 in '95, was there?

Nope. Wasn't realized until 1996.

I don't think he could've done it. He's emotionally detached in most of his roles. Not to say he isn't an amazing actor, but this particular scene wasn't just about Bond breaking up in tears. It required a specific kind of subtlety that Connery lacks, imo. I suspect they would've changed the emotional center of the script to fit him.

It's really one of these things we'll never know, and in a ways it's a bit sad we'll never know.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

My first Bond movie at the cinema was TND. Missed GE for some reason. I remember kinda liking it, but even then it was clearly a step down from GE (which I had caught on TV). I wanted to cry in 1999, between TWINE and The End of Days. I had to ride a bus for 40 minutes to get to the closest good cinema, only to witness 2 terrible movies and, worst of all, missed opportunities (both of 'em).

I think the first one I saw in theaters was TND. But the first one I saw was GoldenEye. My brother and I watched it like every day on tape and when it was on television.

What's funny about Goldeneye are the people who put it down because of how great the videogame is, and I have to point out to those people that the video game was released two years after movie (around the time of Tomorrow Never Dies, in fact).

It is big is a huge part of the lore. I mean, who didn't play it? I think it personally just enhances it, but you know haters will use anything to hate. I have been guilty of this myself. Though I think it is pretty overrated these days. Perfect Dark was GoldenEye set to 11. Now that is an all time great game.

I'm curious to see how Connery would have done with the last scene. Connery I think could nailed it. The guy studies his roles a lot. I remember reading "Making Movies" with Sidney Lumet, and when he directed Connery in one of his movies, he said that Connery was one of the first guys on set, and he would do nothing before shooting but study the script for that day. That's dedication.

The thing is, is that Connery's Bond didn't really act like that. I just don't think I could have ever bought Connery's Bond in love. He seemed far too detached for me. Furthermore, I honestly just don't think he wanted it. His look was already changing quite a bit and he just seemed tired of it. There was this real young love vibe to Bond and Tracy in the film, and I just don't think Connery could have convincingly conveyed that. I really felt that Bond's whole world just fell apart in that last moment.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Here's an insane idea: Lazenby in TMWTGG.

 

[Gianakin_]

The huge problem in The World is Not Enough I like to compare to placing a square peg in a circular hole. I feel like there was an attempt at deviating from the Bond formula, but then it got forced back into the formula, which really hurts the movie severely.

There was an attempt, but it was done by hack writers. CR and QoS are all Haggis, as far as I'm concerned. EON really needs to move on from this "creative" team.

I can't even see what respectable posters in here find in this movie, or that Richards was the only thing that hurt it. The villain was a gimmick from start to finish, the romance and falling in love bit with Bond was totally unbelievable, the M subplot was underwritten as hell compared to its importance, Valentin's death was a Renee Mathis type of copout (or, rather, vice versa), it was like a TV movie (like TND), the action was blander than blan... I just don't get it. This had potential and just that. At least QoS and LTK started doing something with their potential, even if they both failed in varying degrees. TWINE did nothing.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Here's an insane idea: Lazenby in TMWTGG.

Disaster looming. No Bond actor could make that movie good.

 

[Gianakin_]

It's really one of these things we'll never know, and in a ways it's a bit sad we'll never know.

It would've been a welcome challenge for him and a welcome sight to see for us, that's for sure. Worth inventing a time machine for.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Disaster looming. No Bond actor could make that movie good.

Haha I'm feeling masochistic, I may watch it later...if only for Christopher Lee's third nipple.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The huge problem in The World is Not Enough I like to compare to placing a square peg in a circular hole. I feel like there was an attempt at deviating from the Bond formula, but then it got forced back into the formula, which really hurts the movie severely.

Good way of putting it. Probably while it feels a over the place. Still, my guilty pleasure of the series.

I'd put it more like this:

Film Bond: Moore
*Connery
* Brosnan

I don't really think there's a neutral.

* Craig
* Lazenby
Book Bond: Dalton

What I like about Craig's Bond is rarely lays on the charm, unless he feels like he needs it, usually for more personal reasons.

I love how deadpan he plays a lot of his conversations. He could look like Frankenstein but his confidence is just so obvious and he doesn't need to impress. He already knows how impressive he is.

 

[Gianakin_]

The thing is, is that Connery's Bond didn't really act like that. I just don't think I could have ever bought Connery's Bond in love. He seemed far too detached for me. Furthermore, I honestly just don't think he wanted it. His look was already changing quite a bit and he just seemed tired of it. There was this real young love vibe to Bond and Tracy in the film, and I just don't think Connery could have convincingly conveyed that. I really felt that Bond's whole world just fell apart in that last moment.

Exactly. Besides, we got a taste of Connery's Bond in love in YOLT. OHMSS with Connery wouldn't have been the same movie. Hell, Craig's OHMSS would've been a different movie, too. I don't know how he deals with Vesper and Tracy's deaths in the books, but in CR it was pure rage. The Laz was far more distraught. Of course an actor does what the script requires and it'd make sense that in Craig's OHMSS, being a world wearier Bond, the rage would be much fainter.

 

[Gianakin_]

TMWTGG used to be my favorite Bond flick when I was under 10. Now... ouch.

And what's MY guilty pleasure of the series, I wonder? Hmmm... Could be AVTAK. Because of Walken, the final fight, the SCORE of the final fight and the unseen boobs of Tanya Roberts. And Duran Duran's TS song, which I used to record from the TV playback in order to hear it on tape all the time. That and A-Ha's TLD.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Lee was the only redeeming factor in that film.


Edit: YOLT is the biggest mistake in the film series IMO. should have stuck to the books and placed this one after OHMSS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There was an attempt, but it was done by hack writers. CR and QoS are all Haggis, as far as I'm concerned. EON really needs to move on from this "creative" team.

I can't even see what respectable posters in here find in this movie, or that Richards was the only thing that hurt it. The villain was a gimmick from start to finish, the romance and falling in love bit with Bond was totally unbelievable, the M subplot was underwritten as hell compared to its importance, Valentin's death was a Renee Mathis type of copout (or, rather, vice versa), it was like a TV movie (like TND), the action was blander than blan... I just don't get it. This had potential and just that. At least QoS and LTK started doing something with their potential, even if they both failed in varying degrees. TWINE did nothing.

I think I agree with all that you said and yet, I still really like it. Big fan of Robert Carlyle. M's subplot is underwritten but at least it is there. That Valentin even reappears makes me grin from ear to ear.

But really, the most important bit is probably that everyone, other then Vesper and Camille, must bow at the feet of Elektra King in my house. Sophie Marceau is perfection. Yes the romance is completely unrealistic. I don't believe for a second Bond fell in love, but man do I every time I watch it.

Also, just really love the title how it is worked into the film. One of the few times I think they got it right.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think I agree with all that you said and yet, I still really like it. Big fan of Robert Carlyle. M's subplot is underwritten but at least it is there. That Valentin even reappears makes me grin from ear to ear.

I completely get you, so no argument there.

But really, the most important bit is probably that everyone, other then Vesper and Camille, must bow at the feet of Elektra King in my house. Sophie Marceau is perfection. Yes the romance is completely unrealistic. I don't believe for a second Bond fell in love, but man do I every time I watch it.

Tracy!

Also, just really love the title how it is worked into the film. One of the few times I think they got it right.

DAD did better.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Exactly. Besides, we got a taste of Connery's Bond in love in YOLT. OHMSS with Connery wouldn't have been the same movie. Hell, Craig's OHMSS would've been a different movie, too. I don't know how he deals with Vesper and Tracy's deaths in the books, but in CR it was pure rage. The Laz was far more distraught. Of course an actor does what the script requires and it'd make sense that in Craig's OHMSS, being a world wearier Bond, the rage would be much fainter.

I think you might be underselling how distraught Craig's Bond was over Vesper's death. When he is trying to revive her or that scene with him on the boat talking to M. He just looks so vulnerable. It is only after he puts his armor back on and goes after Mr. White that the rage starts coming.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think I agree with all that you said and yet, I still really like it. Big fan of Robert Carlyle. M's subplot is underwritten but at least it is there. That Valentin even reappears makes me grin from ear to ear.

But really, the most important bit is probably that everyone, other then Vesper and Camille, must bow at the feet of Elektra King in my house. Sophie Marceau is perfection. Yes the romance is completely unrealistic. I don't believe for a second Bond fell in love, but man do I every time I watch it.

Also, just really love the title how it is worked into the film. One of the few times I think they got it right.

"A foolish sentiment."
"Family motto."

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Exactly. Besides, we got a taste of Connery's Bond in love in YOLT. OHMSS with Connery wouldn't have been the same movie. Hell, Craig's OHMSS would've been a different movie, too. I don't know how he deals with Vesper and Tracy's deaths in the books, but in CR it was pure rage. The Laz was far more distraught. Of course an actor does what the script requires and it'd make sense that in Craig's OHMSS, being a world wearier Bond, the rage would be much fainter.

In the book version of You Only Live Twice (which is after On Her Majesty's Secret Service), he goes into depression and starts drinking and smoking even more. It got so bad he nearly got dismissed from MI-6.

Also, I'm gonna put the ending in black if you really want to read it. [BLACKOUT]He strangles Blofeld to death. Yep. Book Bond killed Blofeld with his bare hands.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Gianakin_]

I think you might be underselling how distraught Craig's Bond was over Vesper's death. When he is trying to revive her or that scene with him on the boat talking to M. He just looks so vulnerable. It is only after he puts his armor back on and goes after Mr. White that the rage starts coming.

You're right and it's probably the use of the wrong word on my part. What's the word I'm looking for that describes Laz better...?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Tracy!

Tracy is defintiely in my top 5, but she doesn't quite make my sacred list.

DAD did better.

That was funny.

 

[Gianakin_]

In the book version of You Only Live Twice (which is after On Her Majesty's Secret Service), he goes into depression and starts drinking and smoking even more. It got so bad he nearly got dismissed from MI-6.

Makes sense. Could we be getting glimpses of that in SF?

Also, I'm gonna put the ending in black if you really want to read it. [BLACKOUT]He strangles Blofeld to death. Yep. Book Bond killed Blofeld with his bare hands.[/BLACKOUT]

And [BLACKOUT]YES! How hard is it to do his death like this in the movies??? Jesus![/BLACKOUT]