Jared Leto IS The Joker - Part 9

[Rowsdower!]

Awesome! But how could they leave out Cesar Romero?

 

[Greens]

I kind of always preferred B89's Axis Chemicals to Ace Chemicals.

It does roll off the tongue easier.

 

[FrozenBanana00]

Awesome poster!

 

[matt47]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0qGYbRzuA4

Watching him in 4k makes it even more creepier. You can see the spit on his teeth!

 

[regwec]

I love that crowbar poster.

 

[The Endless]

I like the idea of Joker and Harley being like Micky and Mallory Knox from Natural Born Killers. Maybe even having their own film in that mold. Say what you want about the film (i personally love it for it's style alone, even though it's "message" is way too heavy handed) but Harrelson and Lewis were awesome. I think Leto and Robbie could totally lead their own similar type of film.

 

[Knight-Tale]

A Bonnie and Clyde type movie with Robbie and Leto would make money

 

[DeadStroke]

I like the idea of Joker and Harley being like Micky and Mallory Knox from Natural Born Killers. Maybe even having their own film in that mold. Say what you want about the film (i personally love it for it's style alone, even though it's "message" is way too heavy handed) but Harrelson and Lewis were awesome. I think Leto and Robbie could totally lead their own similar type of film.

The difference was that Mickey/Mallory were a true team. Mickey held her on the same level as him. Joker always knocks Harley down a peg (both literally and figuratively). I dont think you can romanticize that kind of thing anymore anyway.

We've seen some brutal clips (or possible clips) between Joker and Harley. Possible torture, smacking her, now ACE chemicals. I think Ayer is going to do his best to make it clear this relationship was never healthy.

I do think that Leto's Joker will probably be the most charming Joker we've seen yet. I think we'll see the Joker truly mentally screw up Harley with suggestion instead of just action.

 

[hellblazer103]

The difference was that Mickey/Mallory were a true team. Mickey held her on the same level as him. Joker always knocks Harley down a peg (both literally and figuratively). I dont think you can romanticize that kind of thing anymore anyway.

We've seen some brutal clips (or possible clips) between Joker and Harley. Possible torture, smacking her, now ACE chemicals. I think Ayer is going to do his best to make it clear this relationship was never healthy.

I do think that Leto's Joker will probably be the most charming Joker we've seen yet. I think we'll see the Joker truly mentally screw up Harley with suggestion instead of just action.

you'd be surprised

 

[Knight-Tale]

The difference was that Mickey/Mallory were a true team. Mickey held her on the same level as him. Joker always knocks Harley down a peg (both literally and figuratively). I dont think you can romanticize that kind of thing anymore anyway.

We've seen some brutal clips (or possible clips) between Joker and Harley. Possible torture, smacking her, now ACE chemicals. I think Ayer is going to do his best to make it clear this relationship was never healthy.

I do think that Leto's Joker will probably be the most charming Joker we've seen yet. I think we'll see the Joker truly mentally screw up Harley with suggestion instead of just action.

You'd be surprised about how many people ship them together.

I don't think it was ever Ayer's intention to present the Joker and Harley as healthy well adjusted human beings.
A movie about them would be a lot more dark than Suicide Squad. Almost like the Devil's rejects or something

 

[hellblazer103]

You'd be surprised about how many people ship them together.

I don't think it was ever Ayer's intention to present the Joker and Harley as healthy well adjusted human beings.
A movie about them would be a lot more dark than Suicide Squad. Almost like the Devil's rejects or something

you just made me imagine sheri moon zombie as harley and i honestly think that'd be kind of awesome.

 

[Kane52630]

edit

 

[Silly Cat]

A Bonnie and Clyde type movie with Robbie and Leto would make money

Harley and Joker are Bonnie and Clyde only in Harley's delusional mind.

I for one have no interest in seeing a romanticized take on Harley and Joker's relationship.

You'd be surprised about how many people ship them together.

Yeah I know exactly how many people ship Harley and Joker together. That's WHY I tend to avoid other Harley fans, I mean I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some of these people start sounding too much like abuse victims making excuses for their abuser, for my taste.

"Oh my boyfriend only hit's me once in a while, BUT deep down he really does love me" and "Hitting me is just his way of showing me he loves me, after-all he had a bad childhood" etc.

I know I can't be the only one who finds this pov disturbing, and even though we are talking fictional characters it still makes one wonder what sort of real life relationships these people might have...at least it does me.

I personally find the Joker/Harley relationship fascinating because it's so screwed up. But I NEVER view it as romantic, there is nothing remotely romantic about it. There is no real love between these two, Harley is obsessed with Joker to the point where she lives in a fantasy world because her psych can't deal with the reality of what has happened to her.

And Joker see's Harley as a toy he can use and abuse as he see's fit, any affection he shows Harley is either manipulation (he's playing on her fantasy to suck her into his plans) or an extension of his own narcissism (he's proud of Harley much like a guy is proud of his new car) when she's doing what he wants her to be doing... which is acting as a shinny accessory to Joker's own image.

The only partnership between these two is in Harley's mind, and as far as Joker's concerned...she is there to hold his train.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Slade W]

Harley and Joker are Bonnie and Clyde only in Harley's delusional mind.

I for one have no interest in seeing a romanticized take on Harley and Joker's relationship.

Yeah I know exactly how many people ship Harley and Joker together. That's WHY I tend to avoid other Harley fans, I mean I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some of these people start sounding too much like abuse victims making excuses for their abuser, for my taste.

"Oh my boyfriend only hit's me once in a while, BUT deep down he really does love me" and "Hitting me is just his way of showing me he loves me, after-all he had a bad childhood" etc.

I know I can't be the only one who finds this pov disturbing, and even though we are talking fictional characters it still makes one wonder what sort of real life relationships these people might have...at least it does me.

I personally find the Joker/Harley relationship fascinating because it's so screwed up. But I NEVER view it as romantic, there is nothing remotely romantic about it. There is no real love between these two, Harley is obsessed with Joker to the point where she lives in a fantasy world because her psych can't deal with the reality of what has happened to her.

And Joker see's Harley as a toy he can use and abuse as he see's fit, any affection he shows Harley is either manipulation (he's playing on her fantasy to suck her into his plans) or an extension of his own narcissism (he's proud of Harley much like a guy is proud of his new car) when she's doing what he wants her to be doing... which is acting as a shinny accessory to Joker's own image.

The only partnership between these two is in Harley's mind, and as far as Joker's concerned...she is there to hold his train.

Just my opinion of course.

Good post. You made another good post about Harley and the Joker before. I think Joker sees Harley as important because she is walking justification (to him at least) of his beliefs and views of the world (that life is meaningless and random). The way she threw away her job and life to join him for example. He was easily able to manipulate her and she was willing to throw away her life and what she stood for just for him. Through her dedication and adoration of Joker, she is a mirror to his ego. She is proof to him of his own excellence, through the fact that she exists and the fact that she never hesitates to tell him and also in how easily he controls her. I am sure he also likes how she feels worthless without Joker and how she feels like she is defined by him (and of course, it was Joker who made sure she felt that way by breaking her down emotionally through insults and belittlement).


He is also used to people being scared of him. Other villains respect him but in a fearful way. She loves and worships him and sees the best in him and is not fearful of him (depending on the story and writer of course) and I am sure he finds that to be very interesting and unique. If Joker is the God in his religion then Harley is his most devoted follower. I don't think Joker is capable of love or compassion or caring for someone else but I think how he treats Harley is the closest you will get to those things.

 

[Captain Tired]

Maybe with one room a little fixed up though.
This joker seems like I'd want to dress up his living space a little.heh
I kind of feel like this might be taking place in Joker's hideout.

I see that as the Squad somehow needing to find somewhere to lie low for a breather, with Harley's assets being the only bargaining chip at that moment in time. That's what I imagined when I first saw the shot, anyway.

 

[Rodrigo90]

It's a good thing they came to an area with conveniently placed poles where Harley can show off her stripping skills for them

 

[Captain Tired]

I should also have said that I imagined it to be a strip club. Harley has a penchant for making use of poles and bars, as is evident in your avatar.

 

[Rodrigo90]

The bars and poles follow her around for obvious reasons!

 

[Boom]

I'm noticing this odd phenomenon where hardcore Joker fans are split on this design, whereas most of the friends and family I've talked to really like it.

 

[Silly Cat]

Good post. You made another good post about Harley and the Joker before. I think Joker sees Harley as important because she is walking justification (to him at least) of his beliefs and views of the world (that life is meaningless and random). The way she threw away her job and life to join him for example. He was easily able to manipulate her and she was willing to throw away her life and what she stood for just for him. Through her dedication and adoration of Joker, she is a mirror to his ego. She is proof to him of his own excellence, through the fact that she exists and the fact that she never hesitates to tell him and also in how easily he controls her. I am sure he also likes how she feels worthless without Joker and how she feels like she is defined by him (and of course, it was Joker who made sure she felt that way by breaking her down emotionally through insults and belittlement).

He is also used to people being scared of him. Other villains respect him but in a fearful way. She loves and worships him and sees the best in him and is not fearful of him (depending on the story and writer of course) and I am sure he finds that to be very interesting and unique. If Joker is the God in his religion then Harley is his most devoted follower. I don't think Joker is capable of love or compassion or caring for someone else but I think how he treats Harley is the closest you will get to those things.

Well said!

You know something else that not many people talk about, that I've always found fascinating about the Harley/Joker dynamic is how it mirrors Joker/Batman in a weird way.

I mean as everyone knows, Joker is completely and utterly obsessed with Batman, to the point where the Bat's is literally his 'reason' for being. Everything Joker does goes back to Batman in some way, to hurt Batman, to torture Batman, to break Batman...and when Batman is not around, there are examples of Joker going catatonic or just plain disappearing until his rival returns.

That's obsession of the highest degree, and for someone like Joker who is a complete and total narcissist, who views himself as the greatest person in the universe, knowing that someone 'else' is your 'all'...deep down that has GOT to sting.

I sometimes wonder if deep down Joker resents his obsession with Batman, I mean in his mind he is so amazing that he shouldn't 'need' anyone else...but Joker needs Batman. So I sometime wonder if creating Harley was Joker's way of evening the score with Bats. Like him saying "I may not be able to break free of you, but I'll make someone else as enslaved to me as you've made me enslaved to you!"

Harley is basically Joker's 'Joker', not in the sense that she's his enemy, but in the sense that she's his own creation, much like Joker see's himself as Batman's creation. And she orbits Joker as Joker orbits Batman, in the New 52, (like it or hate it) Joker even reenacted the whole chemical accident between him and Bat's with Harley, only this time he plays the part of 'Bats' and is the one who throws Harley into the acid.

I always found those parallels fascinating and I wonder if Paul Dini and Bruce Timm realized all the parallels when they created the character of Harley and did it intentionally, or whether it was a happy accident.

Just speculating.

 

[The Shape]

I recently went back into old Heath Ledger threads from the TDK forum to take a nostalgic look at the reaction to the first official pictures and set pictures of him. I'm sure you remember it all vividly, Boom.

It was funny to see so many hardcore Joker fans *****ing about the lack of perma-white skin and smeared paint (myself included at first), some of whom are still around and doing the same kind of *****ing about the tattoos and teeth.

 

[Wheels]

I'm noticing this odd phenomenon where hardcore Joker fans are split on this design, whereas most of the friends and family I've talked to really like it.

That's because the general audience doesn't have a specific taste when it comes to these characters like fans do. Fans tend to get attached to certain visual concepts and/or personality traits that the average person doesn't.

 

[The Joker]

That's because the general audience doesn't have a specific taste when it comes to these characters like fans do. Fans tend to get attached to certain visual concepts and/or personality traits that the average person doesn't.

Just like general audiences wouldn't care about changes to the source material like say Robin being the Joker. They wouldn't care as long as it made for entertaining viewing.

 

[DeadStroke]

I see that as the Squad somehow needing to find somewhere to lie low for a breather, with Harley's assets being the only bargaining chip at that moment in time. That's what I imagined when I first saw the shot, anyway.

I could be wrong, but thats the same outfit she wears in the Joker's car.

So either thats a flashback/beginning or she did her little strip tease before somehow ending up in the Joker's car getting chased by Batman.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Harley and Joker are Bonnie and Clyde only in Harley's delusional mind.

Well I compared them to Bonnie and Clyde because just like Bonnie and Clyde Harley and Joker think they are the heroes of their own story. They view their whole crime spree rampage as a joke because life is pointless or whatever.

I for one have no interest in seeing a romanticized take on Harley and Joker's relationship.

Yeah I know exactly how many people ship Harley and Joker together. That's WHY I tend to avoid other Harley fans, I mean I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some of these people start sounding too much like abuse victims making excuses for their abuser, for my taste.

"Oh my boyfriend only hit's me once in a while, BUT deep down he really does love me" and "Hitting me is just his way of showing me he loves me, after-all he had a bad childhood" etc.

I know I can't be the only one who finds this pov disturbing, and even though we are talking fictional characters it still makes one wonder what sort of real life relationships these people might have...at least it does me.

I personally find the Joker/Harley relationship fascinating because it's so screwed up. But I NEVER view it as romantic, there is nothing remotely romantic about it. There is no real love between these two, Harley is obsessed with Joker to the point where she lives in a fantasy world because her psych can't deal with the reality of what has happened to her.

And Joker see's Harley as a toy he can use and abuse as he see's fit, any affection he shows Harley is either manipulation (he's playing on her fantasy to suck her into his plans) or an extension of his own narcissism (he's proud of Harley much like a guy is proud of his new car) when she's doing what he wants her to be doing... which is acting as a shinny accessory to Joker's own image.

The only partnership between these two is in Harley's mind, and as far as Joker's concerned...she is there to hold his train.

Just my opinion of course.

As far as manipulation goes with the Joker Harley is his willing apprentice she'll do anything he asks no question. Harleen is the one the Joker manipulated to get to Harley.
Ultimately I think its quite fascinating as well but I don't think there's this line between Fascinating and Romantic. People tend to infantalize Harley to mitigate her wrongs because she's such a vibrant character at odds with the bad things she does. The Joker's abuse of her goes in tandem with her love. If you treat them as a normal couple then their relationship is abhorrent but with the knowledge that they are villains who don't have the same morals as me I find their relationship a lot more tolerable.

I'm not sure they could keep a BTAS dynamic with them in a live action movie. They might have to move them into the Joker GN dynamic where Harley is this man's rock in their quiet moments.