Jared Leto IS The Joker - Part 9

[Marvolo]

Except for the stupid colouring on the hat.

Incidentally, I have only just come across the original inks for the montage of photographs of Barbara that The Joker shows Jim. They are too graphic to post here, but it seems clear from them that Babs was (probably gang) raped.

Oh, Alan.

The only thing that is different between the original and the published version is that the published version cut the photograph that showed her ****. All the other photos are the same in both versions.

I assumed she was raped when I read the published version. Joker is shown unbuttoning her blouse. And the photos that are shown in the published version clearly show her to be naked.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Jim Gordon is also shown disrobed though, and despite the S&M vibe, I don't think any of us think that he was sexually assaulted.

I guess I always just assumed that Joker shot Barbara, disrobed her and took the pictures to freak the Commish out. He would have had to high tail it out of there pretty quick with Jim too so, I never really thought there was any sexual stuff happening. That's not defending TKJ for the sake of it... I really never assumed that she was violated like that.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Same here. I always assumed Joker "just" took pictures.

 

[Majik1387]

It is obviously up to the reader, but with how insane Joker is, and the whole S&M vibe, as well as Joker's cronies being there, I don't think it's out there to assume there was worse torture than what was portrayed.

 

[Wildcard]

I kind of always assumed she was sexually assaulted as well for the simple fact that with the Joker there are no limits. We're talking about a man that shot a woman in the head while she was in a room full of babies....and was originally planning to kill said babies.

Joker is game for pretty much anything.

 

[Marvolo]

Yep. Even if Joker is Asexual, I doubt there is anything he wouldn't do to hurt someone. So him raping someone or having someone raped to hurt that person and the ones they love doesn't seem out there to me.

And what hurts a father more than knowing his baby girl was shot and raped and may be dead? Not much can hurt a father more than that. Even if Joker didn't rape her that's what he wanted Jim to think happened.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Joker is asexual???

 

[Majik1387]

Some fans believe so, yes. I don't agree at all.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Well, I guess it depends on which version of the Joker is being discussed. In the comics, where he's been a lot rougher than anywhere else, I think he might indeed be asexual. Jack's Joker (being... Well being JACK'S Joker) definitely had a libido. I could go either way with Ledger. I think it's possible he was just being humorous when he was being faux flirty with Racheal. Hamill... Again, even though he seems to be in a romance with Harley there is a sense that it might not be consummated, but that's me. Like Hamill's Joker was stringing Harley along with the promise of something more. Something he could care less about but that she was obsessed with, and he knew that.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Yeah I don't buy it
He's actually kissed Harley more than a few times

I mean even if you just assumed he didn't partake sexually because its never shown he has had a few female partners besides Harley Quinn too.

Then you have the moments that hint he might be gay as well

 

[Majik1387]

I've yet to see a version of Joker that's asexual.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Whatever the orientation that causes you to obsessed with Batman, that's his orientation.

 

[Majik1387]

Batsexual?

 

[Marvolo]

^

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Joker has the same fetish this guy has probably.

 

[The Endless]

I think Leto's Joker will be into some ****. Like a Billy Idol or David Bowie... doing an ounce of coke then shagging 10 women at the same time in a sex dungeon or something.

 

[Wheels]

Joker has the same fetish this guy has probably.

So, Joker is into fish? Clown fish I'd wager.

 

[regwec]

I kind of always assumed she was sexually assaulted as well for the simple fact that with the Joker there are no limits. We're talking about a man that shot a woman in the head while she was in a room full of babies....and was originally planning to kill said babies.

Joker is game for pretty much anything.

The Joker had a number of goons with him; we don't need to assume he engaged in the rape himself. He could well have stuck to taking pictures.

One of the reasons the rape in the Joker GN doesn't ring true is that there is no artistry to it. All of The Joker's excesses usually have an element of performance, allusion or irony to them. It's no secret that I think that comic was poorly written, though.

 

[The Joker]

I always felt if Joker had raped Barbara in TKJ then it would have been referenced. Someone, whether it be Batman, Gordon, Barbara, or even Joker himself would have mentioned it by now. I mean Joker's never been shy to taunt the fact that he crippled Barbara. Saying he screwed her, too, is definitely something he would also use to taunt.

Even at the end he's like "What are you waiting for? I shot a defenseless girl, terrorized an old man. Why don't you beat the hell out of me and get a standing ovation from the crowd". He doesn't mention shooting and raping a defenseless girl. Rape is not a little insignificant thing so I don't see why he wouldn't mention it.

Plus in the hospital scene when Bullock says they found Barbara in a state of undress, one of the first things they would have checked for was if she'd been sexually assaulted after finding her like that. But all he says is they found a lens cap to a camera, and think he photographed her.

 

[Slade W]

Joker is asexual???

Some fans believe so, yes. I don't agree at all.

It depends on the writers of course, but IMO he is and I have thought that for a while. I think the only thing that he is interested in is causing pain and chaos. He doesn't find many things in life exciting or appealing, with Batman being one of the few things that he does. He views Batman as a challenge and something fun, as well as someone who is close to being Joker's equal. He thinks Batman is one of the few things that is interesting in the world and worth bothering with. He doesn't seem to find the rest of the Justice League or the Bat-family to be very interesting.

In the Batman Endgame Tie-in story called "Friends" in Batman Annual 3, the Joker said "I don't have a friend in the world! I don't have a pal to grab a beer with, or go see a ball game, or chat about the ladies......its a whole big corner of life and its a mystery to me! I'll be honest, I never really saw the point".

That quote is very telling and IMO is his view on sex too. I don't think he would see the point or find it exciting or appealing, unless it was to hurt or manipulate someone. Another thing is, the idea of Joker wanting to have sex makes him relatable because it is normal and, you know, human to want to have sex and I don't think the majority of writers will want the Joker to be in any way relatable, or to be seen as even slightly normal or human. So that is another reason why I do not think they will ever get into it too much. (as well as the fact that a story about the Joker's sexuality and sex-life would be, well, quite strange and disturbing to say the least).

 

[Slade W]

For what it is worth, I also do not think that the Joker raped Barbara Gordon or that his goons did either. I think it was done in a way to let the reader decide if he did or didn't though. In my mind he did not and I think the fact that it was never mentioned that he did or even implied in later stories suggests that he didn't.

 

[Captain Tired]

I think Leto's Joker will be into some ****. Like a Billy Idol or David Bowie... doing an ounce of coke then shagging 10 women at the same time in a sex dungeon or something.

 

[Knight-Tale]

Joker mentions in the comics that he has fallen in love with Harley and has to kill her because of it.

The idea that he is asexual and doesn't ever have urges like a normal person is not true. He may suppress the more human aspects of his self but its there.

Ultimately is on some level Joker is human enough to enjoy a relationship but only with someone like minded enough to have the same wants as him.

 

[Manofplastic]

As for the barbara 'incident',

i don't think he sexually assaulted her (rape). His aides might have, but it remains to be seen whether there was time for such a thing. who knows.

The reason why I think Joker has not done such a thing is because i think his corrupted mind does not embrace women in a potentially sexual way.
The only reason i can think of why he is attracted to Harley is because he turned her crazy and she's more or less a fellow mind like him (chaos).

If we were to take Jeanie's story as canon, then this tells us we have a joker that used to be a 'normal' man that lost everything. He obviously cared for jeanie. He lost her due to a corrupt police officer that set the house on fire because he wanted to back out of a mob attack on Ace chemicals, to obligate him into continuing with the plan.

He quit his job at ACE, then tried to become a comedian but fails horribly, no money, wife and kid, tries to better the situation by doing something bad and dangerous, his wife warns him not to do it because of the mob,
he then goes out to back out of the deal, then they kill his family - he'll see it all as his fault because he 1. quit. 2. got them in trouble. 3. initiated the deal. 4. wanted to back out.
having the burden of total family loss and his own personal world collapsing, has to continue with the break-in @ his former job,
and then, complete chaos erupts as the plan, like his own plan, falls to pieces and in a gunshooting it gets even worse; Batman appears in front of him, he's involved, and he knows he can't escape the bat-justice resulting in prison. still tries to escape but falls into the vat with chemicals.
left for dead, he manages to get out only to find he's disfigured due to the chemicals. completing the psychological damage done to him with physical damage done.

result? psychological insanity. he probably sees his life and everything that happened as a big joke. he blames himself for the death of his love, and he blames the mob and the police for how everything panned out. Hate for the (corrupt) police that killed his wife, hate for the mob that initiated his wife's death and the break-in, and in the chaos the plan breaks apart, and finally Batman whom he'll hate for being the one to fall into the chems and disfigure him. HE'll probably hold a grudge that he did come to the ACE break-in but not saved his wife and baby.

I think joker won't touch another woman because of Jeanie.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

ok lets get something outta the way Barbara was sexual assaulted in the killing joke, its to the level that is up for debate. she was injured stripped against her will and photos taken that is sexual assault no question and i do feel the upcomming animated movie will tone this down heavily

but raped, i dont know and ive read this book well into the triple digits. when i first read the killing joke the idea was there, i dont know if it was previous stories i had read or i just didnt want to see it at such a young age

i read the killing joke in 92 i think it was my uncles copy so i was about ten and had been reading batman from i was about 6, so in the 4 years i always believed that yes joker was a mental case and would, kill, maim, terrorize etc but even he had limits and there was certain thing he would even do. mainly because it wasnt funny or was beneath him

I always thought joker felt he was better than certain things, a great example comes from under the red hood

Batman: [showing the Joker a photo of the Red Hood] He's calling himself the Red Hood. What do you know about it?
The Joker: That he has horrible taste! When I wore that number, it was classy — more flashy maitre d' than motorcycle fetish. Oh, these kids today...

The Joker: So... disappointing. But, back to the matter at hand: this new Hoodie. Do you really think I would stir up so much trouble and not make sure you knew it was me? [laughs maniacally]

or from the death of batman

"Kid, I'm the Joker. I don't just randomly kill people. I kill people when it's funny."
-- Batman #686 (2009)

growing up i honestly dont know what to thing about tkj even after multiple reading. i love the dynamic between joker and batman and the origin and that speech is amazing, but a lot of it doesn't sit right

and i feel backlash its getting while somewhat deserved is going overboard. i may be someone who looks like hes chickening out and sitting on the fence but both sides in this argument seem so extreme, you either worship the book or demand it be wiped from existence