Jared Leto IS The Joker - Part 9

[regwec]

I recently went back into old Heath Ledger threads from the TDK forum to take a nostalgic look at the reaction to the first official pictures and set pictures of him. I'm sure you remember it all vividly, Boom.

It was funny to see so many hardcore Joker fans *****ing about the lack of perma-white skin and smeared paint (myself included at first), some of whom are still around and doing the same kind of *****ing about the tattoos and teeth.

I remain an opponent of smeared grease paint, and consider a few dodgy tattoos to be a favourable exchange.

 

[Boom]

I was furious at the makeup thing for months. I don't think I warmed up to it until the December trailer came out.

Good times. That thread is still, to this day, one of the best comprehensive character studies the SHH boards has ever seen.

But I'm with regwec. If it comes down to it, I'll take a tattooed permawhite Joker over a greasepaint-wearing Joker all day every day.

 

[Jekecy]

Good times. That thread is still, to this day, one of the best comprehensive character studies the SHH boards has ever seen.

It's a shame the permawhite "debacle" has been grouped together with other absurd fan wars. Never again has such a topic spurred great insights into the character (from both camps). For a year straight, it forced everyone to strip the character down and reevaluate every layer which had made him compelling over the years. Easily one of the more interesting debates I've read.

 

[Boom]

It's a shame the permawhite "debacle" has been grouped together with other absurd fan wars. Never again has such a topic spurred great insights into the character (from both camps). For a year straight, it forced everyone to strip the character down and reevaluate every layer which had made him compelling over the years. Easily one of the more interesting debates I've read.

Exactly right.

I'd encourage people to dig that thread up. This thread is ridiculously tame in comparison.

 

[regwec]

The tattoo-haters are dwarves standing on the shoulders of giants.

 

[The Joker]

I was furious at the makeup thing for months. I don't think I warmed up to it until the December trailer came out.

A trailer is always the clincher. Seeing the character in motion, the acting, the visage being brought to life etc. I had already been won over before the trailer. I think the pic that really did it was the one Wizard released on one of their magazine covers;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=13374734&postcount=10

But yeah, that trailer was where the magic really happened. Notable names like Guillermo Del Toro, Paul Dini, Adam West, Jeph Loeb, and even Mark Hamill were super psyched by what they'd seen;

http://www.mtv.com/news/1576855/dar...shots-have-guillermo-del-toro-others-smiling/

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/01/02/mark-hamill-cant-wait-to-see-heath-ledger-as-joker/

In contrast to seeing Leto in action in the Suicide Squad trailer, seeing him in live action didn't do anything to quell my distaste for his horrible design. Unfortunately it looked worse. I haven't seen his trailer footage inspire any positive responses from any notable people either about this new rendition of the Joker.

 

[Wheels]

I'm not bothered enough by the tattoos for it to effect my anticipation of this Joker, but I openly admit that I don't like them. Just doesn't click with me.

 

[DeadStroke]

I remain an opponent of smeared grease paint, and consider a few dodgy tattoos to be a favourable exchange.

agree

 

[Majik1387]

Out of all the tattoos, I think the "Damaged" one is really just a dumb addition. I can deal with the body/arm tattoos and even the J on the face, but that "damaged" one just doesn't belong.

 

[Jekecy]

Those people were all directly asked by MTV specifically for their reactions, so I'd wait and see until a publication does the same here (if it does).

All I know is I spent a great deal of time on YouTube looking at people and fans' reactions to the Joker reveal, and nearly every single one had a grin and/or covered their mouths in awe. Not pointing to it as a sign of validation, but I'd say it's a good indication to contrast the nearly universal vitriol the initial reveal pic received.

 

[The Joker]

Those people were all directly asked by MTV specifically for their reactions

They were just reporting their reactions;

"Just days after the first extended “Dark Knight” trailer leaked online, fans and critics alike are singing the praises of Ledger’s portrayal, which many are already calling a pitch-perfect dramatization of Batman’s greatest nemesis, the Clown Prince of Crime."

They're just reporting the responses of some of the more notable people. And the bulk of them apart from Hamill (who's was two weeks later) were just mere days after the trailer came out.

 

[regwec]

I think it's great that fans are so accepting of Leto's Joker this time around. I think that's something for which we must partly thank the radical departure from the comic book Joker represented by Ledger's version. With luck, he might prove to be John to Leto's Jesus.

 

[Jekecy]

No they weren't. They were just reporting their reactions;

"Just days after the first extended “Dark Knight” trailer leaked online, fans and critics alike are singing the praises of Ledger’s portrayal, which many are already calling a pitch-perfect dramatization of Batman’s greatest nemesis, the Clown Prince of Crime."

Nowhere in those articles does it show or state MTV was asking any of them anything. They're just reporting the responses of some of the more notable people. And the bulk of them apart from Hamill (who's was two weeks later) were just mere days after the trailer came out.

Those quotes aren't found anywhere else other than citing back to MTV. How else would they get such specific answers?

 

[The Joker]

Those quotes aren't found anywhere else other than citing back to MTV. How else would they get such specific answers?

Because they were the first to report them of course.

Even if they had not, why wouldn't they, or someone else, have asked if anyone had anything to say about Leto's Joker from the trailer?

 

[Jekecy]

Because they were the first to report them of course.

Even if they had not, why wouldn't they, or someone else, have asked if anyone had anything to say about Leto's Joker from the trailer?

I'd say it's a different circumstance only because those reactions were directly following a worldwide debut event (via the 'I Am Legend' screenings). Pretty much the entire blogosphere attended and commented, and I wouldn't be surprised if press and celebs were specifically invited so they could drive up the hype.

SS is only released as a reaction to a leak, and even then it's footage released online as opposed to a physical location. I'm sure the press could have inquired about it, but I imagine at that point it would have been yesterday's news as everyone had immediate access to it.

 

[DeadStroke]

A trailer is always the clincher. Seeing the character in motion, the acting, the visage being brought to life etc. I had already been won over before the trailer. I think the pic that really did it was the one Wizard released on one of their magazine covers;

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=13374734&postcount=10

But yeah, that trailer was where the magic really happened. Notable names like Guillermo Del Toro, Paul Dini, Adam West, Jeph Loeb, and even Mark Hamill were super psyched by what they'd seen;

http://www.mtv.com/news/1576855/dar...shots-have-guillermo-del-toro-others-smiling/

http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2008/01/02/mark-hamill-cant-wait-to-see-heath-ledger-as-joker/

In contrast to seeing Leto in action in the Suicide Squad trailer, seeing him in live action didn't do anything to quell my distaste for his horrible design. Unfortunately it looked worse. I haven't seen his trailer footage inspire any positive responses from any notable people either about this new rendition of the Joker.

You're probably the only person I've heard said he looked worse. I've heard the trailer didnt take away any reservations about the look. I've heard it didnt improve that much. I've heard he looked about the same. Havent heard it looked worse.

First time for anything

Also the 41+ millions hits on youtube, 300,000 likes, etc are partly stemming from the thumbnail pic of the Joker. It draws you in to watch the trailer and then at the very end the Joker delivers. There is a ton of interest, love, etc being shown on twitter, facebook, etc

Also keep in mind this was a trailer released a year before the movie comes out. TDK was 7 months away and featured more Joker.

I still feel the official Joker reveal pic did a lot of disservice to it. Clay Enos hasnt taken great pics in a while. Check the BvS stuff about his pics of Batman, etc. Where he initially failed with the Joker was using a white background and the particularly shot of the Joker. I dont know if he worked on TDK, but Nolan had a way of presenting a very scary Joker. The pics used had a way of erasing doubts about the smeared makeup. The Joker is a lot like Batman where he looks better in a dark setting. Enos almost ruined the Joker momentum before it even got started. Yes, the tats and teeth filling (NO ITS NOT A GRILL!) are jarring. Its supposed to be. But asking for that type of pic with a new Joker was just bad all the way around. After a while I got use to it because it was still interesting to see the detail.

I also find it ironic that you posted.

'We wanted a "cold-blooded, mass-murdering clown", and that's exactly what we're getting!'

Honestly, just look at this. This is the face of evil:

And yet this doesnt seem to be of the same caliber?

Again I'm going off of the trailer, set pics, etc. Not the amazing performance and character that Heath/Nolan created.

But he looks just as evil/crazy as Nolan's Joker. Will he be as good? We'll find out.

 

[The Joker]

I'd say it's a different circumstance only because those reactions were directly following a worldwide debut event (via the 'I Am Legend' screenings). Pretty much the entire blogosphere attended and commented, and I wouldn't be surprised if press and celebs were specifically invited so they could drive up the hype.

SS is only released as a reaction to a leak, and even then it's footage released online as opposed to a physical location. I'm sure the press could have inquired about it, but I imagine at that point it would have been yesterday's news as everyone had immediate access to it.

But this had nothing to do with the I am Legend trailer. This was after the trailer leaked on-line;

"Just days after the first extended “Dark Knight” trailer leaked online, fans and critics alike are singing the praises of Ledger’s portrayal, which many are already calling a pitch-perfect dramatization of Batman’s greatest nemesis, the Clown Prince of Crime"

http://www.mtv.com/news/1576855/dar...shots-have-guillermo-del-toro-others-smiling/

That's the reaction they were gauging. Not a movie premier.

 

[Jekecy]

But this had nothing to do with the I am Legend trailer. This was after the trailer leaked on-line;

"Just days after the first extended “Dark Knight” trailer leaked online, fans and critics alike are singing the praises of Ledger’s portrayal, which many are already calling a pitch-perfect dramatization of Batman’s greatest nemesis, the Clown Prince of Crime"

http://www.mtv.com/news/1576855/dar...shots-have-guillermo-del-toro-others-smiling/

That's the reaction they were gauging. Not a movie premier.

Ah, my mistake. The date had me thinking of the I Am Legend one.

In any case it's still up to the press to report it. As noted before MTV seems to have specifically put the word out there that they were looking for reactions, but I could be wrong. This is the digital age so I'm sure there's already a collection of reactions out there readily available to be collated if someone were up to it.

 

[The Joker]

First time for anything

'So Joker looks like a gangbanger'

'As a lover of Joker (the chacter) and all the actors to have ever played him...this is a joke. What is a hipster joking doing ?'

'I can't take California gangbanger Joker seriously'

'That said, holy s*** that is one awful-looking Joker. The tats were bad enough, but f***ing grills? He looks like a gang member trying to prove he's just so crazy and insane by getting tattoos along those lines as it is without the ridiculous grill action.'

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/leaked-suicide-squad-trailer-reveals-jared-letos-j/1100-6428831/

And that's just a sample handful from one page. I don't know where you've been reading but there's plenty of negative reaction to his look from the trailer to be found all over the Net.

Also the 41+ millions hits on youtube, 300,000 likes, etc are partly stemming from the thumbnail pic of the Joker. It draws you in to watch the trailer and then at the very end the Joker delivers. There is a ton of interest, love, etc being shown on twitter, facebook, etc

This is an ensemble movie filled with DC characters never seen on film before. How do you know it got 40 million hits just because of a thumbnail pic of the Joker?

I also find it ironic that you posted.

'We wanted a "cold-blooded, mass-murdering clown", and that's exactly what we're getting!'

Honestly, just look at this. This is the face of evil:

And yet this doesnt seem to be of the same caliber?

Absolutely. I get nothing like that from Leto's visage. Not even a smidge. He just looks comically silly with those tats and grills.

 

[DeadStroke]

But this had nothing to do with the I am Legend trailer. This was after the trailer leaked on-line;

"Just days after the first extended “Dark Knight” trailer leaked online, fans and critics alike are singing the praises of Ledger’s portrayal, which many are already calling a pitch-perfect dramatization of Batman’s greatest nemesis, the Clown Prince of Crime"

http://www.mtv.com/news/1576855/dar...shots-have-guillermo-del-toro-others-smiling/

That's the reaction they were gauging. Not a movie premier.

Leto got 10 to 15 seconds of screen time in SS.

Ledger was throughout the entire trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXeTwQWrcwY

Imagine if TDK trailer just featured nothing but "Whatever doesnt kill you makes you stranger" scene. Thats about the length of the shot with Leto's Joker.

 

[The Joker]

Ah, my mistake. The date had me thinking of the I Am Legend one.

It's cool.

In any case it's still up to the press to report it. As noted before MTV seems to have specifically put the word out there that they were looking for reactions, but I could be wrong. This is the digital age so I'm sure there's already a collection of reactions out there readily available to be collated if someone were up to it.

I'll tell you what stands out about it for me. We got this huge overwhelming positive reaction Heath's Joker got from the trailer like a couple of days after it leaked on-line, with several notable names stepping up to share their enthusiasm, and this was before Nolan had become a really big name, and even before Heath's death added publicity to the movie.

Now we have the next Joker following in the footsteps of a version who is considered one of cinema's greatest villains. You'd think there would be extra attention paid to this one, and more gauging of people's reactions to see what they think, or even how he measures up to the big shoes he's been left to fill.

But nothing. I was actually waiting to see if people like Dini, or Del Toro, or Hamill, or any comic book alumni would say anything.

 

[The Joker]

Leto got 10 to 15 seconds of screen time in SS.

Ledger was throughout the entire trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXeTwQWrcwY

Imagine if TDK trailer just featured nothing but "Whatever doesnt kill you makes you stranger" scene. Thats about the length of the shot with Leto's Joker.

Hang on a minute, did these 10 to 15 seconds of screen time stop some people here from saying things like they were totally sold on Leto and his look, or that he would be the scariest Joker yet (even though I think it was ridiculous to make that declaration based on a few seconds of footage) etc?

No. There was enough footage of him, and dialogue to get an idea of his voice, to give people a taste of what kind of Joker we're going to get. It's about quality, not quantity.

 

[DeadStroke]

@TheJoker

It seems you just have this aversion to your favorite character having tats and fillings. Doesnt matter how well or how done they are.

Thats fine. There are those who just couldnt get over the smeared makeup Joker in TDK. We all have our preferences and limits.

Ledger won the oscar and some people still didnt feel he looked like the Joker or even represented the Joker. Some just view him as an all time villain, a very scary anarchist, but not the Joker.

Just like there are those opinions that are out there. There will be those who will never accept a tatted up and teeth knocked out Joker. We all like and accept what we like.

I'm not sure (and I believe you've stated this) how well the performance is it wont change your opinion.

So I'll just respect your opinion and let it go.

 

[MasterChief2829]

It's cool.



I'll tell you what stands out about it for me. We got this huge overwhelming positive reaction Heath's Joker got from the trailer like a couple of days after it leaked on-line, with several notable names stepping up to share their enthusiasm, and this was before Nolan had become a really big name, and even before Heath's death added publicity to the movie.

Now we have the next Joker following in the footsteps of a version who is considered one of cinema's greatest villains. You'd think there would be extra attention paid to this one, and more gauging of people's reactions to see what they think, or even how he measures up to the big shoes he's been left to fill.

But nothing. I was actually waiting to see if people like Dini, or Del Toro, or Hamill, or any comic book alumni would say anything.

I don't see anything to really talk about yet. That Dark Knight Trailer was focused almost solely on the Joker. A Comic-Con Sneak Peak that wasn't supposed to be public over a year before release that gives off a small tease of him isn't any comparison to that.

Also that news article says "gushed to MTV News" come on, MTV obviously asked them. Actors and Directors don't go emailing MTV News when they think something looks cool lol

 

[DeadStroke]

Hang on a minute, did these 10 to 15 seconds of screen time stop some people here from saying things like they were totally sold on Leto and his look, or that he would be the scariest Joker yet (even though I think it was ridiculous to make that declaration based on a few seconds of footage) etc?

No. There was enough footage of him, and dialogue to get an idea of his voice, to give people a taste of what kind of Joker we're going to get. It's about quality, not quantity.

I think most feel like he nailed that scene. The hope is that he's as good or better throughout other scenes in the movie.
Also just because someone projects that he's going to be the scariest doesnt mean he's projected to be the best. Or that its the best/true take on the character.

Ledger had multiple scene stealing moments in his first trailer. Not only did he have a good first impression it was other signs that he nailed the role. That offers more assurance and belief than just one particular scene.

That scene has taken a life of its own in social media. Thats enough for some people. Especially since its a year away. Did Leto just nail a scene? Or is there more to come? The next trailer will be a better judge.