Justice League Status Updates Thread

[J.Howlett]

I'm not saying that they're going to do it because they need to keep up with Marvel or for competition. I'm saying now that WB realizes how successful a JL film would be because of The Avengers. Now they know that it would bring in MAJOR cash flow... possibly more than any other film they've ever released.

I mean seriously... The Avengers only had Iron Man, Captain America, and Hulk as far as the big name characters that everybody knows. I guarantee you a lot of people who have gone to see The Avengers have no idea who Thor, Black Widow, or the other guy are and look how successful it's been.

The fact is when you have a team of characters that just look that freakin' cool it's going to be succesful, even if a lot of the characters aren't that popular. People know who Bats, Supes, Wondy, GL, and Flash are so JL already has more for going for it.

Of course, considering the buckets of money Avengers made, WB's top guys are in the bunker trying to work this out.

At the end of the day, what's the in for the audience? Considering how successful he is now, it's really only Bale as Batman that's the in for the audience. But, he's done now.

WB is probably looking for someone to really hang their Justice League movie on and I'm willing to bet that Cavill's the guy...IF Man of Steel is a major hit.

If Green Lantern was a major hit, I think you would've heard something by now. If Man of Steel doesn't do what they want it to do, I think it's dead in the water...unless WB pony's up a ridiculous amount of cash to get Bale and Nolan back into the fold and make either a World's Finest movie or Justice League movie happen.

But, I don't even think that's going to do it.

It's my opinion that a Justice League/World's Finest is all on the shoulders of Cavill and Snyder.

 

[jmc]

Snyder seems to be speaking from the gospel of Nolan saying Superman is in its own world like Batman was so I question how likely Man of Steel will affect things, in fact I'll go so far to say that as long as Nolan is involved with Superman in some aspect JL with Cavill as Superman won't be on the table at all.

 

[J.Howlett]

Snyder seems to be speaking from the gospel of Nolan saying Superman is in its own world like Batman was so I question how likely Man of Steel will affect things, in fact I'll go so far to say that as long as Nolan is involved with Superman in some aspect JL with Cavill as Superman won't be on the table at all.

I think the same as well. I went back and looked at the lead up interviews with Nolan and Snyder and Snyder's on board with keeping everything separated...which, I'm kind of cool with.

If I'm WB, I just skip the whole thing and concentrated all my efforts in launching Superman, Wonder Woman, and Flash as their own franchise.

If they got lucky, you could do trilogies for each characters. That's 9 films probably spread over twelve to fifteen years. That's a lot of money to be made...if it worked.

But, again, the money from Avengers is talking so there's going to be some type of team up movie from the DC characters. The question is, in what form and with whom?

 

[J.Howlett]

If WB didn't have this legal situation with Superman, I'm willing to bet that they would've waited on Superman.

Green Lantern was going to be the film that lead to everything. Superman would've gotten his reboot and so would have Batman after Nolan's trilogy was done.

 

[jmc]

I think the same as well. I went back and looked at the lead up interviews with Nolan and Snyder and Snyder's on board with keeping everything separated...which, I'm kind of cool with.

If I'm WB, I just skip the whole thing and concentrated all my efforts in launching Superman, Wonder Woman, and Flash as their own franchise.

If they got lucky, you could do trilogies for each characters. That's 9 films probably spread over twelve to fifteen years. That's a lot of money to be made...if it worked.

But, again, the money from Avengers is talking so there's going to be some type of team up movie from the DC characters. The question is, in what form and with whom?

My hope is Nolan talks some sense into WB before they rush into anything drastic. I know he can't tell them what to do but I'm hoping at least he gives them his two cents as to what they should avoid doing.

 

[J.Howlett]

My hope is Nolan talks some sense into WB before they rush into anything drastic. I know he can't tell them what to do but I'm hoping at least he gives them his two cents as to what they should avoid doing.

They'll listen to the "governor" as he's called on the lot, but money really talks.

He'll give advice but I just think Avengers' numbers are too hard to ignore. They'll make a move sooner rather than later. That's almost a safe bet.

 

[Dark Raven]

My hope is Nolan talks some sense into WB before they rush into anything drastic. I know he can't tell them what to do but I'm hoping at least he gives them his two cents as to what they should avoid doing.

Is Nolan's "sense" the best sense though? What if he had been working for Marvel Studios instead and told them that each of the solo movies (Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Hulk) should never combine? We'd never get the Avengers, and we'd probably have had much darker movies.

Nolan's vision is just one vision and it isn't necessarily the best. It worked for Batman but is becoming restrictive as far as any of the other DC superheroes are concerned. Maybe he thinks a combined universe can't work, but that doesn't mean he's right.

 

[jmc]

Is Nolan's "sense" the best sense though? What if he had been working for Marvel Studios instead and told them that each of the solo movies (Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Hulk) should never combine? We'd never get the Avengers, and we'd probably have had much darker movies.

Nolan's vision is just one vision and it isn't necessarily the best. It worked for Batman but is becoming restrictive as far as any of the other DC superheroes are concerned. Maybe he thinks a combined universe can't work, but that doesn't mean he's right.

Given the results he's produced don't you think his approach might be right? For all of Marvel's efforts the majority of their films have been fairly standard superhero affairs, well made for the most part but still nothing remarkable, Avengers and IM1 being the only times they really hit the sweet spot. Nolan's self contained Batman story has help elevate the genre to heights quite frankly that most of us never imagined was possible, and that comes down to there being few restriction placed upon the series, having things evolve organically and having a dedicated team behind driving it.

If the possibility exists that separate universes means reaching or even challenging where Nolan reached in his Batman series then I'd argue it is the best sense. I've always maintained a combined universe does nothing for DC's character especially since DC has the bigger names in the roster. The thing about WB is that they don't have the passion for a DC universe because ultimately they're not in the business for superheroes alone, and that will ultimately be the difference between what they are doing and what Marvel are doing.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

Is Nolan's "sense" the best sense though? What if he had been working for Marvel Studios instead and told them that each of the solo movies (Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and Hulk) should never combine? We'd never get the Avengers, and we'd probably have had much darker movies.

Nolan's vision is just one vision and it isn't necessarily the best. It worked for Batman but is becoming restrictive as far as any of the other DC superheroes are concerned. Maybe he thinks a combined universe can't work, but that doesn't mean he's right.

Church !

 

[Lencho01]

Given the results he's produced don't you think his approach might be right? For all of Marvel's efforts the majority of their films have been fairly standard superhero affairs, well made for the most part but still nothing remarkable, Avengers and IM1 being the only times they really hit the sweet spot. Nolan's self contained Batman story has help elevate the genre to heights quite frankly that most of us never imagined was possible, and that comes down to there being few restriction placed upon the series, having things evolve organically and having a dedicated team behind driving it.

If the possibility exists that separate universes means reaching or even challenging where Nolan reached in his Batman series then I'd argue it is the best sense. I've always maintained a combined universe does nothing for DC's character especially since DC has the bigger names in the roster. The thing about WB is that they don't have the passion for a DC universe because ultimately they're not in the business for superheroes alone, and that will ultimately be the difference between what they are doing and what Marvel are doing.

That's how I feel about it too. If each (or most) of the superheroes are able to gain acclaim and money within three films close to the levels of Nolan's Batman, there isn't really a for one film universe. It's not like we're dealing with business men who happen to be fanboys. Just simple business men.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

Stating the obvious... little girls aren't the target demographic for the superhero films' merchandising.


Toy sales, the primary focus, are aimed specifically at boys. Boys wouldn't want to play with Wonder Woman dolls, and WB knows this.


Wonder Woman action figures would be much bigger peg warmers than the Green Lantern movie merchandise.

The stuff marketed towards little girls are things like Justin Bieber, Twillight stuff and Bratz Dolls.

Superheroes is the male domain. That won't change.

though true to a certain extent, it would be the same for lesser known female characters like power girl or vixen. WW on the other hand would be quite popular.

i can only say the example from the main fandom i follow. masters of the universe. both teela and evil lyn are 2 of the most popular and demanded figures only after he-man and skeletor

i'm not saying little boys are gonna go nuts for wonder woman but collectors and comic fans would buy her up as long as the toy makers dont flood the market which come on in a JL movie its not gonna happen. the peg warmers will all be bats and supes variants

 

[DaveMoral]

Given the results he's produced don't you think his approach might be right? For all of Marvel's efforts the majority of their films have been fairly standard superhero affairs, well made for the most part but still nothing remarkable, Avengers and IM1 being the only times they really hit the sweet spot. Nolan's self contained Batman story has help elevate the genre to heights quite frankly that most of us never imagined was possible, and that comes down to there being few restriction placed upon the series, having things evolve organically and having a dedicated team behind driving it.

If the possibility exists that separate universes means reaching or even challenging where Nolan reached in his Batman series then I'd argue it is the best sense. I've always maintained a combined universe does nothing for DC's character especially since DC has the bigger names in the roster. The thing about WB is that they don't have the passion for a DC universe because ultimately they're not in the business for superheroes alone, and that will ultimately be the difference between what they are doing and what Marvel are doing.

The fascinating thing about DC heroes is that for the most part they can readily exist in their own worlds, each facing threats that they can handle on their own. Superman can do a lot, but on film he's mostly been seen saving people from natural disasters and the odd super villian and the only real threats there have been Zod. He still can't be everywhere at once, and there should be some things that are simply beneath Superman. He should live exist in a world that doesn't need a Superman to stop a bank robbery(unless said robbery is using some crazy ass advanced tech that overwhelms the police). It's hard to accept him as mostly staying around Metropolis, but it's easy to accept him staying out of Gotham when he knows that Gotham's got it's own guy. Or Star City, or Central City, or Coast City etc. Heck, Green Lantern's so big there's almost never a reason for him to be doing anything on earth.

The main thing you have to consider with a shared universe is just how insane the world as a whole would be. Such that it's keeping these superbeings and vigilantes busy that they each take care of their own specific problems. And DC/WB should take the lead in actually addressing the Catch-22 of superheroes(which Nolan did do with Batman), and how their mere existence steps up the game for the bad guys. Superman starts catching petty crooks, or busting up the schemes of Luthor or Intergang... well, they are going to step it up. GL's presence is going to attract intergalactic bad guys. Wonder Woman's presence brings out mythological beings. Batman inspires the kooks to get kookier. A murderer goes from being just a murderer, maybe even just a "run of the mill" serial killer, to a serial killer dressed like a clown who taunts the entire city.... or a mobster with a bird fetish.... or a DA with personality issues to a DA with full blown split personalities, a thing for chance and duality that flips a coin to decide if he's going to be bad or good.

All of them together, staving off all these amped up threats, is going to inevitably attract the attention of worse threats... from space or what have you. Hence Darkseid.

The brilliance of how they realized this in The Avengers is making the Cosmic Cube and all the tech and other stuff that spread off that be what attracts the Chitauri to earth.

I just don't know why anyone would think that Marvel's characters are any more open to team-up than DC's. They face the same issues... various threats, why isn't Iron Man handling something that Cap is doing on his own? Why isn't Hulk just smashing everyone? Why doesn't Thor just come in and use his demi-god powers to take care of the whole thing? If the Avengers and Justice League can work on the page it can work on screen. The Avengers clearly worked on screen. So can the Justice League.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

I have a feeling WB/DC will be peppered with questions from fanboys at the ComicCon this year about the potential of a JL movie. It'll be interesting to hear how they managed to prevent disappointing their fans if there's indeed no plans to do a team up movie. At this point to ignore the global success of TA is going to be mighty difficult for a company that's the chief rival of Marvel. I'd imagine a lot of shareholders at WB are clamoring for their own TA movie right now.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think we'll get the same reaction we've (mostly) always gotten: "We are actively working on a JL movie"

 

[spider-neil]

I think we'll get the same reaction we've (mostly) always gotten: "We are actively working on a JL movie"

or they say nothing, put their head in the sand and hope the avengers storm blows over.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

I have a feeling WB/DC will start talking about a JL movie, if for no other reason than to appease their stockholders/shareholders. Think about it. Two of their most successful franchises have ended (HP and Nolan Batman), and seeing how TA smashed HP-DH P2's BO record has got to sting a bit. I won't be surprised if WB started looking for someone to take the helm of the JL movie, even just for show.

 

[ЯɘvlveR]

they've been talking about it for a long time.

 

[Compi716]

WB should revisit the aborted Green Arrow: SuperMax project. That film is practically custom made for introducing the idea of a shared DC Universe.

 

[jmc]

The fascinating thing about DC heroes is that for the most part they can readily exist in their own worlds, each facing threats that they can handle on their own. Superman can do a lot, but on film he's mostly been seen saving people from natural disasters and the odd super villian and the only real threats there have been Zod. He still can't be everywhere at once, and there should be some things that are simply beneath Superman. He should live exist in a world that doesn't need a Superman to stop a bank robbery(unless said robbery is using some crazy ass advanced tech that overwhelms the police). It's hard to accept him as mostly staying around Metropolis, but it's easy to accept him staying out of Gotham when he knows that Gotham's got it's own guy. Or Star City, or Central City, or Coast City etc. Heck, Green Lantern's so big there's almost never a reason for him to be doing anything on earth.

The main thing you have to consider with a shared universe is just how insane the world as a whole would be. Such that it's keeping these superbeings and vigilantes busy that they each take care of their own specific problems. And DC/WB should take the lead in actually addressing the Catch-22 of superheroes(which Nolan did do with Batman), and how their mere existence steps up the game for the bad guys. Superman starts catching petty crooks, or busting up the schemes of Luthor or Intergang... well, they are going to step it up. GL's presence is going to attract intergalactic bad guys. Wonder Woman's presence brings out mythological beings. Batman inspires the kooks to get kookier. A murderer goes from being just a murderer, maybe even just a "run of the mill" serial killer, to a serial killer dressed like a clown who taunts the entire city.... or a mobster with a bird fetish.... or a DA with personality issues to a DA with full blown split personalities, a thing for chance and duality that flips a coin to decide if he's going to be bad or good.

All of them together, staving off all these amped up threats, is going to inevitably attract the attention of worse threats... from space or what have you. Hence Darkseid.

The brilliance of how they realized this in The Avengers is making the Cosmic Cube and all the tech and other stuff that spread off that be what attracts the Chitauri to earth.

I just don't know why anyone would think that Marvel's characters are any more open to team-up than DC's. They face the same issues... various threats, why isn't Iron Man handling something that Cap is doing on his own? Why isn't Hulk just smashing everyone? Why doesn't Thor just come in and use his demi-god powers to take care of the whole thing? If the Avengers and Justice League can work on the page it can work on screen. The Avengers clearly worked on screen. So can the Justice League.

I'm not arguing that you can't make it work, I'm question whether you should do it in the first place. What are we getting out of a shared universe other than a bunch of ok superhero films? Using Nolan's approach of keeping characters separate ensures they aren't bound by and one direction or style and gives them a better chance of producing a higher quality of film granted a passionate team is behind the movie. I hate to keep bringing up Nolan but the results he's produce speak for themselves and if the same approached is being used for Man of Steel and produces similar results then the only argument in favour for a shared universe is simply because the fans want it, and quite frankly sometimes they need to be ignored.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That only goes for some characters though.

Flash and Superman for example can comfortably share a universe. There is nothing unusual about Flash in Superman's universe, and the Flash's universe is full of strangeness. One of his biggest foes is an oversized, super-intelligent gorilla, who got his powers from a radioactive meteor (Smallville, anyone?).

 

[jmc]

Of course you can make any character share the screen with any other, the question is what is the benefit of doing so? What are we ultimately getting out of it? Again there's gotta be a better argument than because it would be cool. Once you start combining characters universes you're leaving very little room to move in terms of the type of movies you can produce.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I have to disagree there. But that's mostly because Iron Man 2 was rather poorly written. The shared universe is a double edged sword. Depending on how you use it, it can be a great thing.

I'd say the rule of cool is enough of a benefit. Having characters coexist also can make the world a lot more interesting. You can allude to a greater universe, but not have it bog down characters. Give them breathing room.

I'd probably agree more with your argument if DC had something to show for it. But their only successful franchise is Batman. Maybe if they did actually produce other good types of movies, I would see more merit in that argument.

 

[jmc]

But the thing is the studio won't allow breathing room if it's goal is this single universe concept, once the mandate is 'these characters have to co-exists' you're eliminating greater possibilities for these characters in their own movies. Marvel showed they're not willing to stray too far outside the lines they created and it resulted in movies that were well made but ultimately lacking punch (Avengers the exception), and I don't want DC characters limited in that respect. I don't want to walk out of a Flash movie thinking 'that's was ok'. Nolan's Batman should be the poster boy for all superhero movies at WB, it should be about making the movies the best possible movies with the most dedicated teams with the least amount of restrictions or 'guidelines'.

 

[metaphysician]

Acting like Avengers is some independent outlier that can be ignored misses the point. If making some sacrifices ( that still result in very good and very successful movies ) is the prerequisite for producing a result like Avengers, then that *is* the smart move to make. Particularly since its very dubious you could even get a Thor or Cap movie off the ground in the first place, if it couldn't have been tied into something bigger.

( and that's granting the initial thesis, which I actually don't in the first place )

 

[AvengeME]

Green Lantern should have been a purely sci-fi, space opera genre. You could have made the origin movie Earth based (which they obviously did), but after that I would have branched away from Earth. It should not have played out as a superhero film. It should have been more along the lines of Star Trek/Wars.

There is nothing "genre ascending" about Flash. Pretty straight forward character that won't sell by himself in a genre pretty packed with those types of characters.

Wonder Woman could play itself out similar to Thor, only taking advantage of the mythological roots of the character, while Thor went with a more sci-fi, futuristic route. No problems there.

So that is basically the boundary I think they need to clear. Have a kick-ass Superman franchise. Re-introduce Batman. Do a proper WW movie that appeals on the level of Thor. Don't make another superhero movie with Green Lantern. Flash is an add on that doesn't need his own film. Wouldn't hurt, but I'd pass. The classic orange costume would never work on the big screen.

As far as combining, select a Green Lantern that lives in the time of Bruce Wayne. Could be anybody. The solo franchises would be loosely connected. Just come together for an event. But if they recast everybody I don't think it sells in the least bit. It needs to be a team of all-stars that have grown into the characters that's the point.