The Dark Knight Rises Love Interest in the Third Film

[GaiusBaltar]

That he loved her.

But... nothing of what you said there proves that.

 

[ALittlePush]

I've written a scene for Alfred revealing that Rachel chose Harvey over Bruce. It's not perfect but let me know what you think.


Alfred: If I may say so, Sir, you and Miss Kyle seem to be getting on well.

Bruce: mmmmmm

Alfred: You don’t sound too enthusiastic. Is there a problem?

Bruce: No, everything’s fine.

Alfred: Then why so glum?

Bruce: Because I’ve betrayed her.

Alfred: Betrayed who?

Bruce: Rachel. We were going to be together, Alfred. We could have got married, had kids, grown old together. If it weren’t for the Joker, Rachel would be with me, here, right now.

Alfred: That’s not exactly true, Sir.

Bruce: What do you mean?

Alfred: Rachel was going to marry Harvey Dent.

Bruce: No, she wasn’t. She was going to be with me.

Alfred: Before Rachel died, she gave me a letter...to give to you...when the time was right.

Bruce: I haven’t seen any letter.

Alfred: That’s because I burnt it. The state you were in...It would have destroyed you.

Bruce: Then why are you telling me now? If it was so bad that it would have “destroyed” me, why are you telling me now?

Alfred: Because you are destroying yourself with what you think could have been. Rachel would have wanted you to move on.

Bruce: You have no idea what Rachel would have wanted. We were going to be together,we were going to be happy.

Alfred: The day after she died, the one where you asked me how I caught the bandit in Burma, I brought you breakfast.

Bruce: You took something off the tray.

Alfred: That was Rachel’s letter. You were upset. I-

Bruce: Get out.

Alfred: I only did what I thought was in your best interests.

Bruce: GET OUT!

Alfred: Very well, Sir.

 

[Mr. Earle]

But... nothing of what you said there proves that.

What are you talking about? He was spying on her dating with Dent (when he was stitching his arm), he was pretty jealous that they were holding hands at the restaurant, and he asked her whether they could be together when he quits just like she had promised.

And he was about to quit to be with her.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

Oh, good Lord, you're actually repeating weak arguments. Allow me to rephrase mine, just to avoid stagnation:

Being in his early years, Bruce was quite fixated in eventually having a normal life. Rachel was his best option, and he may have indeed believed he was in love with her. But nothing proves that he really was.

He was not passionate about her, for instance. He didn't even bother to take the hand out of his pocket the only time he initiated a kiss with her. Yes, he was trying to prevent her relationship with Harvey from fully happening, but considering what he represented for him (the ticket back to normal life) it's more than predictable. And Bruce spies on lots of people, known and unknown, without really being in love with them. In the comics, we have a multitude of foes and allies, including the JLA. In the Nolanverse, he joked about spying on Alfred if necessary, and even ended up spying on every cell phone owner in Gotham. Was he in love with all of them?

Being jealous and controling and spying on people are simply Bruce's ways. He was toying with the idea of leaving his vigilante life. But he never did. And Rachel says, quite convinced, that Bruce wouldn't be able to leave it ever. He wasn't able to let go of Batman, not even when Gotham's real hope was facing extreme peril. So why were you so convinced he would have done so for Rachel?

Now, compare their perceived relationship to what was shown to us about her and Harvey Dent. Lots of physical contact, real dating, marriage proposal, being passionate about it, not being able to cope with the loss... and you tell me who of the two was screaming his lungs out when Rachel was blown off to bits: Harvey... or Bruce?

Now you can argue that is simply Bruce's 'in love' state: that he's not equipped to show more feelings than that, that he's cold about his personal relationships... but I refuse to accept that and I don't take it for granted. With a much different person, we may (and should) get different feelings from Bruce. And Selina Kyle is the perfect female character to get that. Nuff' said.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Bruce spies on superhumans and villains, not the guy at the grocery store. What, you think he was spying on her to see what type of tampons she was using?

Bruce couldnt be passionate or anything because Rachel had him in the friend zone because he dresses like a bat, but promised him that they could be together once he quit.
Why would Rachel be a ticket to his normal life anyway? He could marry anyone he wanted. A normal life means not dressing up as a bat, not dating Rachel specifically.

Now you can argue that is simply Bruce's 'in love' state: that he's not equipped to show more feelings than that, that he's cold about his personal relationships...

Yep, Bruce is like that. Maybe he didnt really love her, maybe he did, but Bruce isnt the warmest person out there anyway.

 

[Mr. Earle]

OK, while i like being the devil's advocate, i think that you re right. Maybe he was in love with her, and that lured him into a normal life. He was obviously jealous that she was moving on and being happy while he was dressing up as a bat, so that probably was it.

Even if he quit, he'd soon realise that he cannot be happy as Bruce and that he needs Batman.

 

[Nightwing 52]

**** it, just stick Black Canary in there then and have them get it on.

Bird's nest.

 

[GaiusBaltar]

What, you think he was spying on her to see what type of tampons she was using?

I said he was jealous, his project for a partner was slipping through his fingers.

Why would Rachel be a ticket to his normal life anyway? He could marry anyone he wanted. A normal life means not dressing up as a bat, not dating Rachel specifically.

He knows her, he likes her, he trusts her. For a man in his position, dating is easy, finding the right one for a relationship is not. It was basically Bruce's lack of interest in dating, she was right there already, and he thought it was that easy. No one with realistic expectations believes something like "I quit, she comes with me" after just one kiss and a weak promise, especially while she's dating another man.

Yep, Bruce is like that. Maybe he didnt really love her, maybe he did, but Bruce isnt the warmest person out there anyway.

He doesn't have to be warm, but maybe show strong emotions, like rage. We have Selina get to him before, haven't we?

I gotta ask, on what side do you stand on the whole Love interest thing? If you'd like them to give it a try, name your favorite. I've grown fond of your opinion

 

[Mr. Earle]

I gotta ask, on what side do you stand on the whole Love interest thing? If you'd like them to give it a try, name your favorite. I've grown fond of your opinion

First of all, i posted another post right under the one you answered to admitting that you re right. I didnt see you answer to it so i thought you might have missed it. t:

As for what you're asking, i'd definitely like to see Catwoman in Bruce's life. See, that's how it is with them. They date for a while, then he puts her in jail, then she breaks out or is released, then they date some more before she goes back to her usual ways and he locks her up again.

So, at some point they should introduce her and have a story with her as one of the villains and then she should have appearences in the sequels as his love interest. In other words, she should become part of his supporting characters in every film. Dating him, visiting him in his cave, him checking on her, trying to rehabilitate her, etc. That's how it is in the comics.

And since WB is planning a DC movieverse (not only did they announce it but Clark will have a cameo in the GL movie), i suppose that they would want to establish a continuity for their heroes. Now i dont know if the Nolanverse can fit in the DC movieverse or if they will reboot the franchise to that end, but in a continuity, that's how i'd use Catwoman.

Of course they would be other love interests like Talia when Catwoman is locked up or whatever.

 

[QueenChaos]

I've been thinking on this a bit more and,
I feel that, if it turns out that Bruce didn't "love" Rachel - his infatuation with her was purely based on the fact that she seemed to be the only thing that would have given him a chance to live a normal life. Rachel said it herself in TDK. Maybe he was convinced he loved her because he wanted so badly to have that chance at a normal life, maybe she was a symbol of relief to him where he could get away from the idea of Batman. After TDK the idea was sort of, Batman is all he has and it has taken over so much of his life and become such a prominent force in Gotham that he needs to take it on and pursue it. So, he is clearly going to be upset about losing Rachel since he has known her since they were kids, and since she was in his mind his only chance to be truly happy - along with Harvey Dent too, if Harvey is gone that also ruins his plans since Dent was supposed to be the new hero for Gotham. With both of them gone it seems hopeless that he can ever have this regularity and happiness, so he is also probably going to be deeply considering that prospect of things - but maybe he will realise himself that Rachel was taking on that position for him and not that of an actual true love - and if this happens then yes, I can see there being room for another woman that could potentially become a love interest. I just wonder what the time-frame will be for the next film. Depending on the time that passes in the film, whether it is to cover some days, some weeks, some months, or some years - only particular instances would make sense. If it is a short time-span that we are viewing, then I don't feel it would be realistic for his character to realise that he is actually in love with a new woman, but maybe deeply intrigued and interested - leaving the viewer to note that the relationship will potentially grow out in their world, beyond the film. It also depends on the time between the two films, like if the next film is set months after TDK or just weeks...that will influence how he feels about the Rachel situation and love in general. My own hope is that a love interest doesn't show up, because I do not think romance is necessary to it - but I wouldn't mind a strong female role in there to bounce around the idea of romance, some sexual tension, etc. I love Selina, but Talia would round things off quite nicely to tie back into Batman Begins in ways - I can see a clever subplot surrounding that feature.
After reading some more of your comments I see that the normal life thing was brought up here since, but just thought I would post up my ideas anyway to contribute my belief on the mindset of things.

 

[Panthro]

Selina Kyle/Catwoman. Nuff said.

EDIT: Queen Chaos, very interesting post.

 

[BestGirl]

I've been thinking on this a bit more and,
I feel that, if it turns out that Bruce didn't "love" Rachel - his infatuation with her was purely based on the fact that she seemed to be the only thing that would have given him a chance to live a normal life. Rachel said it herself in TDK. Maybe he was convinced he loved her because he wanted so badly to have that chance at a normal life, maybe she was a symbol of relief to him where he could get away from the idea of Batman. After TDK the idea was sort of, Batman is all he has and it has taken over so much of his life and become such a prominent force in Gotham that he needs to take it on and pursue it. So, he is clearly going to be upset about losing Rachel since he has known her since they were kids, and since she was in his mind his only chance to be truly happy - along with Harvey Dent too, if Harvey is gone that also ruins his plans since Dent was supposed to be the new hero for Gotham. With both of them gone it seems hopeless that he can ever have this regularity and happiness, so he is also probably going to be deeply considering that prospect of things - but maybe he will realise himself that Rachel was taking on that position for him and not that of an actual true love - and if this happens then yes, I can see there being room for another woman that could potentially become a love interest. I just wonder what the time-frame will be for the next film. Depending on the time that passes in the film, whether it is to cover some days, some weeks, some months, or some years - only particular instances would make sense. If it is a short time-span that we are viewing, then I don't feel it would be realistic for his character to realise that he is actually in love with a new woman, but maybe deeply intrigued and interested - leaving the viewer to note that the relationship will potentially grow out in their world, beyond the film. It also depends on the time between the two films, like if the next film is set months after TDK or just weeks...that will influence how he feels about the Rachel situation and love in general. My own hope is that a love interest doesn't show up, because I do not think romance is necessary to it - but I wouldn't mind a strong female role in there to bounce around the idea of romance, some sexual tension, etc. I love Selina, but Talia would round things off quite nicely to tie back into Batman Begins in ways - I can see a clever subplot surrounding that feature.
After reading some more of your comments I see that the normal life thing was brought up here since, but just thought I would post up my ideas anyway to contribute my belief on the mindset of things.

Here's a thought: perhaps he falls for Selina and realizes that his feelings for her are totally different than the feelings he had for Rachel. That makes him conclude he never truly loved her.

 

[flickchick85]

Here's a thought: perhaps he falls for Selina and realizes that his feelings for her are totally different than the feelings he had for Rachel. That makes him conclude he never truly loved her.

I like this way of thinking best. Selina would be a complete 180º from Rachel, so it makes sense to me that Bruce's attraction and feelings for her would be completely different.

And I'm hoping the next movie is set at least 6 months to a year after TDK, for many reasons, a new love interest being only one of them.

 

[Panthro]

Here's a thought: perhaps he falls for Selina and realizes that his feelings for her are totally different than the feelings he had for Rachel. That makes him conclude he never truly loved her.

I like that idea.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I dont think Bruce really madly loved Rachel. I think it was just the idea of a normal life. He loved the idea of rebuilding a good life as Bruce Wayne (His Batman life separate),with the only woman hes ever really known and thought he truly loved.

I think with Bruce's story in this. It should be about him trying to build a life of his own,but he cant stand the idea of being alone,but he wont proceed to go out with anybody else. Concentrating on filling in Harveys shoes and helping the city. He stops with the random girls and trys to become respectable in the eyes of others. Of course Selina comes along and is not like any other girl Bruce has met,its her own uniqueness and character that attracts him to her.

 

[BestGirl]

I like this way of thinking best. Selina would be a complete 180º from Rachel, so it makes sense to me that Bruce's attraction and feelings for her would be completely different.

And I'm hoping the next movie is set at least 6 months to a year after TDK, for many reasons, a new love interest being only one of them.

Yes. People keep saying that Bruce would never fall for a new woman after Rachel but setting B3 six months or so after TDK would take care of the mourning period, I think, especially if it turns out he hadn't really loved her as much as he thought he did.

I dont think Bruce really madly loved Rachel. I think it was just the idea of a normal life. He loved the idea of rebuilding a good life as Bruce Wayne (His Batman life separate),with the only woman hes ever really known and thought he truly loved.

I can definitely see this. Bruce seems like the kind of guy who has trouble making connections with other people so I can see him latching onto a girl he cares about and just assuming that they were meant to be together always.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Yes. Thats what I think it was too. Bruce came back to Gotham, wanted to build his life. Thinking that he loved Rachel,through the idea of imagining a life he truly wants,but Rachel didnt want the same until he gave up being Batman.

In TDK, I think he obsessed more so than loved her,cause she was the key to the life that he wanted. But he was willing to give it up and you could see his pain,cause he didnt really want to.

I think its more about his desire and quest for normality. So by the third I think he may be a bit discouraged about his life and throw himself more into Batman. But Selina comes along and offers him the life he wants and thats why he truly loves her,with Rachel things were seriously complicated.

I think Bruce loves a woman cause she gives him stability and a chance for a normal life,something that he desperately wants. But It'll be interesting to see what happens when he finds out she is Catwoman? Can she change his outlook?

 

[QueenChaos]

Here's a thought: perhaps he falls for Selina and realizes that his feelings for her are totally different than the feelings he had for Rachel. That makes him conclude he never truly loved her.

Yes I agree that would work well if Selina is in the picture. I guess we will just have to wait and see what is decided upon. Definitely the amount of time that has passed will have to work into this situation, I am sure that if this is a subplot which is pursued that everything will be pieced together to make sense. That is something I have pondered on a lot, what sort of time range they are looking at for in between films, that really factors into a lot of potential themes that would come up in the next movie.

 

[jmc]

Yes. Thats what I think it was too. Bruce came back to Gotham, wanted to build his life. Thinking that he loved Rachel,through the idea of imagining a life he truly wants,but Rachel didnt want the same until he gave up being Batman.

In TDK, I think he obsessed more so than loved her,cause she was the key to the life that he wanted. But he was willing to give it up and you could see his pain,cause he didnt really want to.

I think its more about his desire and quest for normality. So by the third I think he may be a bit discouraged about his life and throw himself more into Batman. But Selina comes along and offers him the life he wants and thats why he truly loves her,with Rachel things were seriously complicated.

I think Bruce loves a woman cause she gives him stability and a chance for a normal life,something that he desperately wants. But It'll be interesting to see what happens when he finds out she is Catwoman? Can she change his outlook?

Very good point made, I've actually never really looked at it from that angle before but it does make sense.

 

[JoeKerr86]

Have Vicki Vale go after Bruce Wayne, while Bruce/Batman longs for Catwoman. Have Vale hate Catwoman and you could have an interesting pseudo-love triangle.

 

[RustyCage]

Have Vicki Vale go after Bruce Wayne, while Bruce/Batman longs for Catwoman. Have Vale hate Catwoman and you could have an interesting pseudo-love triangle.

Because superhero movies definitely don't have enough of those.

 

[Faramir]

Step 1: Admit you have a problem.Step 2: Quit the daytime soapies.Step 3: Make ammends (vote for Catwoman in the poll).

 

[ALittlePush]

Bruce Wayne should date Vicki Vale for some reason or another but find himself attracted to Catwoman.

Vicki Vale should be played by Rachel McAdams.

 

[The Joker]

Bruce Wayne should date Vicki Vale for some reason or another but find himself attracted to Catwoman.

Vicki Vale should be played by Rachel McAdams.

Sounds like a love triangle to me

 

[Mr. Earle]

Love interest? More like love interests.