Man of Steel Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 4

[Bruce Malone]

Not sure if this has been addressed but batman's hand's aren't exactly clean in those batman movies.

True but he's done nothing nearly as direct as [BLACKOUT]killing[/BLACKOUT] someone directly with his own hands.

Regardless superman's actions weren't murder. Hell there's people who've done worst to stop "threats" and not even been arrested, mostly in florida.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

yeah it's caused quite a stir on the Box Office Theory forums.

That sounds hilarious.

Thanks. I was for some reason literally picturing people watching the film at various walmart locations which seemed pretty awkward haha.

Very smart business imo. Guaranteed $12m, even if it counts for Thursday.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

True but he's done nothing nearly as direct as [BLACKOUT]killing[/BLACKOUT] someone directly with his own hands.

Regardless superman's actions weren't murder. Hell there's people who've done worst to stop "threats" and not even been arrested, mostly in florida.

Yes he does. The garbage truck driver and everyone he shoots with the Bat in TDKR happen. He kills Harvey.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Yes he does. The garbage truck driver and everyone he shoots with the Bat in TDKR happen. He kills Harvey.

A) We don't know that any garbage truck drivers or people he targeted with the bat died. We saw no evidence for that regardless of the carnage.

B) Dent is close but again it was more of an instinct to save the boy by pushing Dent out of the way. Batman just wanted him to not shoot the boy him dying was not his plan out-right, if it was a shorter fall he wouldn't have died. Superman knew there was only one consequence of that neck-snap.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Yes he does. The garbage truck driver and everyone he shoots with the Bat in TDKR happen. He kills Harvey.

Weren't there even complaints in the bat boards at that time about how many people Batman kills?

 

[Ultimatehero]

Superman knew there was only one consequence of that neck-snap.

Which was no more people getting killed. I'm unsure why people think he could have just easily led Zod out of town. If Superman managed to get him away from the city and away from people - at that point Zod would have just flown on back lol. If Superman pulled him up into the air, Zod would have squirmed free and they'd fight through Metropolis killing even more people to subdue him. It was the one and only choice he had and still he struggled with it.

For those who think what Superman did was bad would you say that --

A cop who has to kill someone in order to save lives is doing a bad thing?

Because that's basically what this is, he could have not fired the gun and many people would have died or he could have fired the gun and saved those lives while getting rid of the criminal and having to live with the pain that causes him for having done so.

 

[Astrodust]

A) We don't know that any garbage truck drivers or people he targeted with the bat died. We saw no evidence for that regardless of the carnage.

B) Dent is close but again it was more of an instinct to save the boy by pushing Dent out of the way. Batman just wanted him to not shoot the boy him dying was not his plan out-right, if it was a shorter fall he wouldn't have died. Superman knew there was only one consequence of that neck-snap.

Was the neck snap any worse than all the punching and kicking he did earlier? What I mean is perhaps Superman was trying to kill Zod all along. People can die from being punched and kicked. Zod isn't trying to tickle Superman by hitting him with metal beams and Superman isn't being nice when he is punching people into trains.

 

[Heretic]

Which was no more people getting killed. I'm unsure why people think he could have just easily led Zod out of town. If Superman managed to get him away from the city and away from people - at that point Zod would have just flown on back lol. If Superman pulled him up into the air, Zod would have squirmed free and they'd fight through Metropolis killing even more people to subdue him. It was the one and only choice he had and still he struggled with it.

For those who think what Superman did was bad would you say that --

A cop who has to kill someone in order to save lives is doing a bad thing?

Because that's basically what this is, he could have not fired the gun and many people would have died or he could have fired the gun and saved those lives while getting rid of the criminal and having to live with the pain that causes him for having done so.

Why was Zod obsessed with Metropolis, a city neither he nor Clark had ever been to????

 

[Ultimatehero]

Was the neck snap any worse than all the punching and kicking he did earlier? What I mean is perhaps Superman was trying to kill Zod all along.

If he was? Superman would not have struggled for thirty seconds. Jesus Christ man, did you not see how close that heat ray traveled to that family before Superman pulled the trigger? If Superman was as cold as you want to make him out to be, as others want to make him out to be, don't you think he would have just snapped Zod's neck the very instant he could?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

A) We don't know that any garbage truck drivers or people he targeted with the bat died. We saw no evidence for that regardless of the carnage.

B) Dent is close but again it was more of an instinct to save the boy by pushing Dent out of the way. Batman just wanted him to not shoot the boy him dying was not his plan out-right, if it was a shorter fall he wouldn't have died. Superman knew there was only one consequence of that neck-snap.

He kills the driver and he kills Talia. There is no denying that. What do you think happen to the guy in the garbage truck when the driving compartment was completely destroyed?

Was the neck snap any worse than all the punching and kicking he did earlier? What I mean is perhaps Superman was trying to kill Zod all along. People can die from being punched and kicked. Zod isn't trying to tickle Superman by hitting him with metal beams and Superman isn't being nice when he is punching people into trains.

No, Superman wasn't trying to kill him. If he was, he wouldn't have reacted the way he did when it finally happened.

Weren't there even complaints in the bat boards at that time about how many people Batman kills?

Yes. I personally don't have a problem with it. I think Batman would be willing to kill to save others when given little to no other choice. Just like Superman. He just wouldn't be happy about it.

 

[Marvin]

What I didn't get is why they exiled him when their planet was about to explode. This was the biggest problem from the changes from the Donner version. When everyone thinking Joe-El was full of it, when they put Zod in the Phantom zone, Jot-El mentions its a chance for life, and that the council had condemned the Kryptonians. In this version, the council knows they are screwed, so they send their most dangerous criminals to a temporary safe zone so when the planet explodes it destroys the method holding them there.

Goyer absolutely sucks as a writer. Thank goodness for the charm of Cavil or this film would be in deep trouble.

1. What your criticizing in entirely on an idea front and not a screen play front. Last I checked Goyer and Nolan came up with and signed off said story points. Why not boot them both?

2. Secondly, the kryptonians are a culture of principle. Zod was sentenced to their form of justice and it was served. Die with their planet or however many years of hard labor in hell or what ever the zone sentencing was.
Makes sense to to me.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Why was Zod obsessed with Metropolis, a city neither he nor Clark had ever been to????

PEOPLE.

As I and others have sated, by that point Zod was so far lost that all he wanted was to make Clark suffer and lose the people he cared so much about just like he lost his Kryptonians. You evidently missed this part, but I'm not coming up with it since others recall it as well. If Zod wanted to kill people -- why would he just allow himself to stay in a desert and fight Superman? That doesn't go with what he wants. He doesn't just want to kill him anymore, he wanted to destroy him.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Which was no more people getting killed. I'm unsure why people think he could have just easily led Zod out of town. If Superman managed to get him away from the city and away from people - at that point Zod would have just flown on back lol. If Superman pulled him up into the air, Zod would have squirmed free and they'd fight through Metropolis killing even more people to subdue him. It was the one and only choice he had and still he struggled with it.

For those who think what Superman did was bad would you say that --

A cop who has to kill someone in order to save lives is doing a bad thing?

Because that's basically what this is, he could have not fired the gun and many people would have died or he could have fired the gun and saved those lives while getting rid of the criminal and having to live with the pain that causes him for having done so.

I'm not making a moral judgement on whether it was right or wrong for him to do that. Morally it was probably right if he really really had no other way (which is what people here are debating).

It's just interesting how despite the darkness of Nolan's Batman we never saw him take that direct leap that superman of all people did? it was surprising to say the least.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I'm not making a moral judgement on whether it was right or wrong for him to do that. Morally it was probably right if he really really had no other way (which is what people here are debating).

It's just interesting how despite the darkness of Nolan's Batman we never saw him take that direct leap that superman of all people did? it was surprising to say the least.

Batman would have regretted it, but he wouldn't have cared. It wouldn't be as hard of a punch to the gut for him. For Superman however it was the hardest thing he could possibly do and you could show how devastated he was having to do it. It clearly shows why Superman is different from all other heroes. Also in Batman Begins he did more or less kill. He told Gordon to blow the tracks, he separated the trains, then watched Raas die with a grin on his face. While he didn't physically kill him, he laid out all of the pieces to kill him then just said he wasn't going to save him either -- when he orchestrated everything that led to Raas' death.

Again -- look to 'Avengers' they killed all those aliens like it was the funnest thing to do in the world. Now look to Superman who has trouble even killing the bad guy. It sets him apart.

 

[Astrodust]

Personally I have no problem with Superman killing Zod. Perhaps something more epic would of been cooler. Like maybe a super eye blast.

 

[Mysteryman]

Anyone smell that?

Smells like a Flash and Wonder Woman movie coming down the pipeline.

I hope its Wonder Woman first .

 

[Bruce Malone]

Yeah iron man blasted all sorts of people in the last film. I suppose that's where some of the idea of marvel being more "grounded" and DC being more "mythic" comes from? In that sort of steadfast black and white morality guys like batman and superman have.

 

[Anita18]

I thought this was the box office thread. I don't know which thread to read anymore!

Anyways, right now the box office folks are estimating a $50-$55 OD (without Walmart presales - apparently this is a big distinction ) which translates to $125 million OW at least.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Yeah iron man blasted all sorts of people in the last film. I suppose that's where some of the idea of marvel being more "grounded" and DC being more "mythic" comes from? In that sort of steadfast black and white morality guys like batman and superman have.

Exactly. It sets Superman apart. All the other heroes, including Batman, really have no issue with killing - Superman does.

To me, as said, Batman killed Raas. It's basically like knowing a bomb is set to go off in somebody's house, telling someone else to lock all the doors so they can't get out, then standing outside and saying "I'm not going to kill you, but I'm not going to save you either" when you've just perfectly orchestrated the death. Yes, part of it was Raas' fault - but, still he was happy to watch him die. Raas was a guy, in the film, that could have been securely locked away also.

 

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Heretic
I don't recall Zod stating his new, final plan was to kill as many earthlings as possible. I recall his goal being to kill Superman. Then again, I could be wrong and doubt I will watch the movie again to find out.

You are wrong.

Originally Posted by Heretic

Which is weird anyway...since a sample of Superman's blood went into the Phantom Zone. The very Zod came to earth to get was still out there.

What sample was sent into the phantom zone? I do not remember this, the codex was encoded into his body and he was launched into space. He came to earth looking for the codex and did not find out his body contained it until he arrived at earth. So even assuming that a sample of Supermans blood was in the phantom zone before Zod came to Earth, he wouldnt have known it was in his blood. And you are also assuming that a drop or blood sample would be enough to do what Zod wanted. This is never stated in the movie and is merely your assumption.

Originally Posted by Heretic

I recall that fight scene having people thrown for blocks...even into space.

I dont even know what this is in reference to. If this is again your view Supes could have led him away from the city, then again Zods aim was to kill people, he wouldnt have followed him out into the woods.

Originally Posted by Heretic
But hey...I'm just a guy that thinks that Superman would rather move someone's neck a few inches rather then kill them

Yes, you seem to think Superman was able to manhandle and do whatever he wanted to do with Zod, with no resistance. He should have flown him to the South Pole, sat on his chest and told him he was in Time Out.

Originally Posted by Heretic
and greatly regretting doing it when it happened (to the point where a sequel would have to address it).

Maybe you missed it just like you missed Zods plan to kill humanity but he did express regret. He expressed almost as much pain as when his father died. But maybe thats not enough for you. Or maybe you missed it.

Lastly, you are criticizing a sequel that hasnt been made yet.

 

[Heretic]

PEOPLE.

As I and others have sated, by that point Zod was so far lost that all he wanted was to make Clark suffer and lose the people he cared so much about just like he lost his Kryptonians. You evidently missed this part, but I'm not coming up with it since others recall it as well. If Zod wanted to kill people -- why would he just allow himself to stay in a desert and fight Superman? That doesn't go with what he wants. He doesn't just want to kill him anymore, he wanted to destroy him.

okay...you're right...I don't remember Zod saying that his goal was random killing of earthlings just to get under Superman's skin. I remember him wanting to kill Superman. Killing people was just a way to distract him to make Superman easier to kill. Clark was rarely taken of task of punching though, except when Lois was in danger.

Still doesn't explain why that city meant so much to him...when Superman cared so little about it that he opted to stop the unguarded ship in the middle of nowhere first rather than save people in Metropolis.

 

[InJustice]

Why was Zod obsessed with Metropolis, a city neither he nor Clark had ever been to????

IIRC, The World Engine was located at Metropolis, resulting in Superman needing to be there to break the World Engine. Zod on the other hand, I forget...

 

[Ultimatehero]

Still doesn't explain why that city meant so much to him...when Superman cared so little about it that he opted to stop the unguarded ship in the middle of nowhere first rather than save people in Metropolis.

If your goal was to kill as many people possible would you --

A) Go to the suburbs or a small town
B) Go to a secluded area
C) Go to a highly populated Metropolitan city

Where could you kill the most people?

 

[Mysteryman]

Box office.com was saying its amid40ws without Walmart numbers so I think it's closer to 50"s than 60"s but I guess we find out by Monday.

 

[Sup3rman81]

Deadline.com is reporting that it appears MoS is going to make 134m this weekend making it the BO champion for June and one of the biggest openings ever for a non sequel