The Amazing Spider-Man Marc Webb to return? - Part 1

[AF3619]

well i have a question why did Raven just went with Eric ? that´s it

 

[Picard Sisko]

I'd have to watch it again to get a better idea on the historical inaccuracies as I never thought of it whenever I watched the film, but for continuity errors? There didn't have to be any continuity whatsoever with the other trilogy or Wolverine's film. Hell, all continuity was lost because of X-Men Origins: Wolverine, so I only see FC as a reboot.

And what plot holes? Not asking this in a pompous tone, but I didn't really find any; not as much as TAS-M.

One problem with the film is that they never made it clear if it was a prequel, or a reboot. They start off with the same opening as the 2000 film, but the movie goes in a different direction. The problem with the X-Men film franchise is that each movie was too different (except the first two). Different themes, actors changed, characters randomly didn't show up in another movie (night crawler), etc.

Professor X said he met Magneto when he was 17, but here they met years after that. Also, it was always mentioned that Charles and Magneto worked on Cerebro together. When did they do that?

It seems like the X-Men film series just doesn't flow right. None of the writers want to do any research on prior films for the sake of continuity. Instead of making a bunch of separate movies, why not expand the franchise?

Name one.



...I don't know if I should dignify this with a proper response.



Since there is a sequel on the way, I'd say First Class is a reboot, in which case it has as many continuity errors as The Amazing Spider-Man did to the original films.

Once again, at least Amazing Spider-Man is clearly a reboot, and has no connection to the Sam Raimi films. First Class had trouble telling audiences what it was in relation to the other film series. The GA will view it as a prequel, just as they view the Star Trek reboot as a prequel to Star Trek: The Original Series when it really wasn't.

 

[Picard Sisko]

BTW, I am not knocking X-Men: First Class. I loved it, and enjoyed every moment of it. It is #6 on my top comic book films list, right under the Avengers.

 

[Anno_Domini]

well i have a question why did Raven just went with Eric ? that´s it

Because Erik wanted Raven to have the freedom to be her real self and not hide as in a more human look as Charles did. Charles wanted freedom, but to go through the system until that freedom is achieved while Erik believed freedom should be just taken right away. Different political positions between Charles and Erik even when both are mutants. Much like King and Malcolm X.

One problem with the film is that they never made it clear if it was a prequel, or a reboot. They start off with the same opening as the 2000 film, but the movie goes in a different direction. The problem with the X-Men film franchise is that each movie was too different (except the first two). Different themes, actors changed, characters randomly didn't show up in another movie (night crawler), etc.

Professor X said he met Magneto when he was 17, but here they met years after that. Also, it was always mentioned that Charles and Magneto worked on Cerebro together. When did they do that?

It seems like the X-Men film series just doesn't flow right. None of the writers want to do any research on prior films for the sake of continuity. Instead of making a bunch of separate movies, why not expand the franchise?

First Class is a reboot if you ask me. I take no "continuity errors" in consideration. Much as how Uncle Ben had to be shot, I believe a young Erik still had to be in a concentration camp and it worked better than the original X-Men film as well; tied it all more fittingly with First Class even more.

Plus, I don't know what you mean about X-Men 3 feeling different from the last two...there wasn't much change except for the director, a new Shadowcat and the missing Nightcrawler as you mentioned.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Because Erik wanted Raven to have the freedom to be her real self and not hide as in a more human look as Charles did. Charles wanted freedom, but to go through the system until that freedom is achieved while Erik believed freedom should be just taken right away. Different political positions between Charles and Erik even when both are mutants. Much like King and Malcolm X.



First Class is a reboot if you ask me. I take no "continuity errors" in consideration. Much as how Uncle Ben had to be shot, I believe a young Erik still had to be in a concentration camp and it worked better than the original X-Men film as well; tied it all more fittingly with First Class even more.

Plus, I don't know what you mean about X-Men 3 feeling different from the last two...there wasn't much change except for the director, a new Shadowcat and the missing Nightcrawler as you mentioned.

Fox is missing out on a great opportunity to make a huge franchise with the X-Men. Even if you consider X-Men: First Class to be a reboot, the previous films should have all connected with X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Rather than make the new "Wolverine" movie only being a stand-alone film, it should really tie into the franchise as a whole.

TASM was a reboot, but for a different reason. The Sam Raimi films couldn't really go anywhere. With X-Men, they could have easily made First Class both a prequel and a reboot at the same time, but instead they just went the direction of a reboot.

And btw, when I say the X-Men films felt different except the first two, I meant that X-Men & X2 fit together as a pair. The third movie has a different tone, and feels too separate. Same with Origins.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Fox is missing out on a great opportunity to make a huge franchise with the X-Men. Even if you consider X-Men: First Class to be a reboot, the previous films should have all connected with X-Men Origins: Wolverine. Rather than make the new "Wolverine" movie only being a stand-alone film, it should really tie into the franchise as a whole.

TASM was a reboot, but for a different reason. The Sam Raimi films couldn't really go anywhere. With X-Men, they could have easily made First Class both a prequel and a reboot at the same time, but instead they just went the direction of a reboot.

I agree that FOX could definitely build a huge X-Men universe, but as much as Raimi couldn't REALLY go anywhere after Spider-Man 3, there couldn't be anywhere to go from X-Men: The Last stand, and then X-Men Origins: Wolverine came along...killed any continuity that X3 created, killed certain characters that could be much, much more(Deadpool) and was just a film that was worse than even X3. First Class had to be a fresh and new start at a dying franchise and First Class rescued it to create a new trilogy and X-Men: Days of Future Past could be quite fantastic. And with how Wolverine Origins was, I'm glad The Wolverine is a stand alone film. Jackman needs to reclaim the Wolverine persona and be in a badass film of such a badass character.

And btw, when I say the X-Men films felt different except the first two, I meant that X-Men & X2 fit together as a pair. The third movie has a different tone, and feels too separate. Same with Origins.

But even that isn't really true. X3 is really a true continuation from X2, specifically Jean Grey becoming the Phoenix. The feeling of it is sure different, because the feeling is full on crap, but it's still in the same continuation.

 

[Picard Sisko]

What makes First Class a reboot is the fact that you have a new cast, and a different time period from the previous films. They could have still tried to make it true to the Bryan Singer films, so you could say this film had a connection to them. But what's done is done.

While I also want "The Wolverine" to be a stand-alone film, it should still connect to the X-Men film franchise rather than have nothing to do with it at all.

The X-Men film franchise could be as big as the Star Trek franchise. What makes it so huge is that you have 5 series, 10 films, and a reboot that all connect to each other. If each series had nothing to do with the prior one, then it wouldn't feel so epic.

 

[Anno_Domini]

What makes First Class a reboot is the fact that you have a new cast, and a different time period from the previous films. They could have still tried to make it true to the Bryan Singer films, so you could say this film had a connection to them. But what's done is done.

While I also want "The Wolverine" to be a stand-alone film, it should still connect to the X-Men film franchise rather than have nothing to do with it at all.

The X-Men film franchise could be as big as the Star Trek franchise. What makes it so huge is that you have 5 series, 10 films, and a reboot that all connect to each other. If each series had nothing to do with the prior one, then it wouldn't feel so epic.

It's what you just said. What's done is done. First Class got away from the mess of Ratner's third film and The Wolverine gets away from Origins: Wolverine.

 

[Bruce Malone]

What makes First Class a reboot is the fact that you have a new cast, and a different time period from the previous films. They could have still tried to make it true to the Bryan Singer films, so you could say this film had a connection to them. But what's done is done.

Ugh i've been through this discussion already but first class is not a reboot. The director matthew vaughan said plainly it is not a reboot but a prequel to the bryan singer films and is in the same continuity.

Also they did make it true to the bryan singer film. Is recreating the first scene from x-men 1 not staying true? Is having hugh jackman and rebecca romeijn reprising their roles in cameos not staying true?

 

[Picard Sisko]

Ugh i've been through this discussion already but first class is not a reboot. The director matthew vaughan said plainly it is not a reboot but a prequel to the bryan singer films and is in the same continuity.

Also they did make it true to the bryan singer film. Is recreating the first scene from x-men 1 not staying true? Is having hugh jackman and rebecca romeijn reprising their roles in cameos not staying true?

If it is not a reboot, but a prequel, then it creates many continuity errors. In "The Last Stand," you see an older Professor X and Magneto recruiting Mutants to go to their school. In First Class, they become enemies many, many years before then.

Just because you see Hugh Jackman and Rebecca Romeijn reprise their roles doesn't mean the film is staying true to the previous franchise.

 

[Lily Adler]

Which they are trying to fix ala time travel in Days of Future Past...

 

[Anno_Domini]

Ugh i've been through this discussion already but first class is not a reboot. The director matthew vaughan said plainly it is not a reboot but a prequel to the bryan singer films and is in the same continuity.

Also they did make it true to the bryan singer film. Is recreating the first scene from x-men 1 not staying true? Is having hugh jackman and rebecca romeijn reprising their roles in cameos not staying true?

Using Hugh Jackman as Wolverine is keeping some stable character as Hugh Jackman is still Wolverine in The Wolverine which has no relation to the old trilogy nor X-Men Origins: Wolverine.

And Rebecca Romijn?

...and Romijn herself has a brief uncredited cameo as an adult Mystique, which Vaughn added as an in-joke—the script has Raven "becom[ing] Brigitte Bardot or Marilyn Monroe, like an older sex icon of those times".

It had nothing to do with the past trilogy.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Which they are trying to fix ala time travel in Days of Future Past...

If they want to say X1 - X3 are from a different timeline, then cool.

But you can't honestly say First Class has any relationship with the previous films when it's in the 60s and Emma Frost is at least in her early 30s while she's only 12 in X-Men Origins: Wolverine or that Scott Summers has a brother who's a teenager in the 60s.

 

[Bruce Malone]

If it is not a reboot, but a prequel, then it creates many continuity errors. In "The Last Stand," you see an older Professor X and Magneto recruiting Mutants to go to their school. In First Class, they become enemies many, many years before then.

Just because you see Hugh Jackman and Rebecca Romeijn reprise their roles doesn't mean the film is staying true to the previous franchise.

Last stand and and x-men origins are pretty much out of continuity now. Like i said vaughan wanted to stay to true to only the bryan singer films as bryan singer has returned to the x-men franchise.

Aside from the cameo's, why do all of you keep ignoring that the 1st scene introducing magneto is the exact same scene shot for shot from x-men 1! It is actually a direct continuation of that scene after the one in the first movie ends off.

[YT]?v=dI7SEIKaKwE[/YT]





What more do i have to say do i need to post matthew vaughans quote again? I mean if the director considers it a prequel why are you guys having a hard time understanding it?

 

[Picard Sisko]

If they want to say X1 - X3 are from a different time, then cool.

But you can't honestly say First Class has any relationship with the previous films when it's in the 60s and Emma Frost is at least in her early 30s while she's only 12 in X-Men Origins: Wolverine or that Scott Summers has a brother who's a teenager in the 60s.

With the changes they put in the movie, certain things just can't be fixed. You can either ignore the changes and call First Class a prequel, or call it a reboot.

This is what I was talking about earlier when they did not make it clear whether or not this was a prequel or a reboot.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Last stand and and x-men origins are pretty much out of continuity now. Like i said vaughan wanted to stay to true to only the bryan singer films as bryan singer has returned to the x-men franchise.

Lol! You can't have it both ways. You can't say it has continuity with the past films, but not The Last Stand or X-Men Origins.

We see a full on Beast in First Class but we see the human Hank in one of the two films on TV as well as Charles and Erik both creating Cerebro when that's not the case.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Lol! You can't have it both ways. You can't say it has continuity with the past films, but not The Last Stand or X-Men Origins.

We see a full on Beast in First Class but we see the human Hank in one of the two films on TV as well as Charles and Erik both creating Cerebro when that's not the case.

This.

And honestly, without The Last Stand, the first two films feel empty. They are good movies on their own, but without the third film, it feels like the story never concluded. There is all that talk between Magneto and Professor X about "a storm coming," which of course comes in the third movie with the "cure."

 

[Anno_Domini]

What more do i have to say do i need to post matthew vaughans quote again? I mean if the director considers it a prequel why are you guys having a hard time understanding it?

http://xmenfilms.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/matthew-vaughn-calls-x-men-first-class-a-mixture-of-prequel-and-reboot/

“My main goal was to make as good a film that could stand on its own two feet regardless of all the other films.” said Vaughn. “However I thought anything that worked in all the other movies, and I could have some fun with nodding towards, I would. But my main rule was, ‘You know what, we’re trying to reboot and start a whole new X-Men franchise’ and therefore, making a film work on its own two feet was far more important than trying to be referential to the prior movies.”

There's a quote for ya

 

[Lily Adler]

Basically the X-Men Film Franchise: Same Universe, Different/Altered Timelines... I guess...

 

[Bruce Malone]

"Yeah, I would say absolutely so," Vaughn responded when asked if "First Class" would be an official, in-continuity prequel to the "X-Men" movies that came before it.

"You've got Magneto and [Charles] Xavier when they first meet," he explained. "The backdrop of what's going on in the world when they first meet, it's very interesting. You see them and their relationship develop and play out with this major political event in the background."

http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/08/03/x-men-first-class-mutants-continuity/

Look you can guys can see it as a reboot if you want but i will take the word of the director.

Continuity errors happen in movies especially when films are in the same series have different directors. Bryan Singer over-viewed the whole film so it's not even like you have a whole new crew working on it like almost all reboots do.

Yes as a filmaker vaughan wanted to not be constained totally by the previous films so he had to work in some continuity errors to make his own story. I see it as a prequel to the original x-men films and from what i understand in future sequels they will re-integrate the original cast members.

You would never see TASM being integrated with Raimi's spider-man films the same for nolan's batman films. Which were true reboots.

 

[Picard Sisko]

The X-Men film franchise has to find a way to make an expansive universe, rather than a bunch of different universes with the same "X-Men" title attached to it. I wish the first trilogy had the same theme music, but they kept changing it. A theme becomes the signature of the franchise. While Star Trek always had a different theme for different movies and shows, the "staple" signature theme existed (from The Motion Picture & Star Trek: The Next Generation).

 

[Anno_Domini]

You post a interview from 2010...I post an interview from 2011.

It's like what Arad said about TAS-M being apart of Raimi's trilogy for some damn reason.

First Class IS a reboot.

 

[Bruce Malone]

Avi arad can say anything he wants he's not directly involved in the creative process he's a business guy.

Besides you will never see anything raimi related appear in TASM because they are two different franchises. Like i said there is already talk of bringing back the original x-men cast for future sequels to complete the whole franchise circle.

A true reboot has a totally different creative team behind it, a true reboot does everything it can to differentiate itself from the last series. No cameos, no re-shot scenes from previous movies none of that.

If we want to compromise we can say it's a pre-boot where it can go back to back to being a prequel if they want to integrate the old films. Or a reboot if they want to abandom them but it looks like their going with the former.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Anyways, we got into this whole X-Men debate. Back to Marc Webb & The Amazing Spider-Man...

 

[LegendAssemble]

The whole X-Men First Class and Batman Begins argument is invalid. People complain about this movie for being origin based because we already saw an origin movie, where as with X-Men and Batman we had not. Also FC is not a reboot, most likely it's just going to be a tool to alter the established time line as it can't decide if it wants to follow it or not.