Mass Effect 3 - - - Part 12

[Upset Spideyfan]

I think that's just moreso a metagame thing, Shepard doesn't go into it expecting to survive.

 

[eternalinferno]

Either way, he did sacrifice them, it's like in the first mass effect when you can choose to sacrifice the council

 

[The Squirrel]

I'm confused as to what the Destroy ending (and Shepard's survival) is supposed to mean. I mean, is the company trying to convey that Shep made one last "renegade" decision and sacrificed the Geth (if he hadn't already) and EDI so he'd live? Because I'm pretty sure he goes into that situation fully expecting to go down with the ship...

The Destroy ending is Shepard fulfilling his mission to.. you know... destroy the Reapers.

 

[Balthus Dire]

The Destroy ending is Shepard fulfilling his mission to.. you know... destroy the Reapers.

I would argue that his mission was to "stop" the Reapers, not necessarily to destroy them.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Just finished my Renegade FemShep playthrough, got Worst Destroy. The scene where your squadmates die during the beam charge was pretty good, they didn't re-use the old deleted scene version which I thought they would and made it a bit more personal (with her love interest there).

After the beam charge: Grunt, Vega, Javik and EDI were the only Mass Effect squadmates that were still alive, everyone else having died over the course of the first 3 games.

The rest of the ending presumably finished them all off.

I don't remember this or not but in the vanilla game was there a low EMS Crucible approach cinematic that was different than the regular one? This time there were Reapers all around the Crucible and it was taking damage as it approached, with an interior shot of Hackett's ship getting the crap beaten out of it.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I wish so bad that they included a scene with ME2 love interests that had the gravity of the ME1 romance scene from the EC. I absolutely hate that the last time my Shep talked to Miranda was over some lame ass video conference.

 

[Matt]

Me too. I also wish that there was a way to reject the Reapers and win the war. I don't care if it is blood as hell and Shepard dies and most of the Normandy crew dies. But the current reject ending is little more than Bioware trolling their customers. That is an unfortunate attitude. If someone works hard enough, they should be able to get that perfect ending. The player should have had all of the options to craft their ending to their story, whether it be the tools to build an epic allied forces win ending or something as simple as Miranda having a proper goodbye.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

A refuse/win ending would negate all the other choices, I like Control but I sure as hell would go scrambling to a Refuse/Win ending every time, not to mention that the concept is contradicted by the game itself.

And honestly I still don't see it as trolling. Yes, your cycle loses, and personally I can't get behind the decision to do nothing but Shepard gives one of his best speeches in the series and the ending is actually pretty danged hopeful with the time capsule and new stargazer sequence.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Meh I still see the Refusal ending as a big F-U from Bioware. Not that I care or that I'm upset about it, but really it doesn't serve much purpose otherwise.

I almost want to just let Miranda die in my next "final" playthrough, because somehow that's a better story/ending to her arc than just saying ta-ta to Shep via telephone and then having Shep sacrifice himself and never get to say a proper goodbye.

Same goes for any ME2 love interest. They really f-ed up in that department IMO.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I've seen a lot of people say Refuse is their new ending because they like the themes and implied long term victory so it definitely worked for some people.

I've actually been thinking about getting Miranda killed off as well, her death scene is good and Shepard adds it to his reasons for killing Kai Leng.

 

[Matt]

A refuse/win ending would negate all the other choices, I like Control but I sure as hell would go scrambling to a Refuse/Win ending every time, not to mention that the concept is contradicted by the game itself.

And honestly I still don't see it as trolling. Yes, your cycle loses, and personally I can't get behind the decision to do nothing but Shepard gives one of his best speeches in the series and the ending is actually pretty danged hopeful with the time capsule and new stargazer sequence.

Not necessarily. I never finish ME2 without killing off a few squadmates just because it works better for people to die in a suicide mission. If Destroy or Merge fits other people's Shepard, they may pick it. Furthermore, if BW is so concerned with making sure some people pick destroy, make refusal win incredibly hard to get. Problem solved. Not that BW or anyone should care what ending players pick. After all, how many times were we told that this is OUR story. We should have the tools to have nearly any ending that fits in this universe and refuse win is one of them.

Meh I still see the Refusal ending as a big F-U from Bioware. Not that I care or that I'm upset about it, but really it doesn't serve much purpose otherwise.

I almost want to just let Miranda die in my next "final" playthrough, because somehow that's a better story/ending to her arc than just saying ta-ta to Shep via telephone and then having Shep sacrifice himself and never get to say a proper goodbye.

Same goes for any ME2 love interest. They really f-ed up in that department IMO.

I've seen a lot of people say Refuse is their new ending because they like the themes and implied long term victory so it definitely worked for some people.

I've actually been thinking about getting Miranda killed off as well, her death scene is good and Shepard adds it to his reasons for killing Kai Leng.

I'm killing her off this time around. She is pointless after she lives. Such an important character (the female lead of ME2), deserves a better ending than just walking away for some B.S. reason and not showing up again.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Exactly. Plus, it makes Shep's sacrifice even more meaningful in a way, as though he's ultimately going to be "with" his LI in the end. It just feels like a more "right" ending.


...yeah I think I'll let her die lol.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Exactly. Plus, it makes Shep's sacrifice even more meaningful in a way, as though he's ultimately going to be "with" his LI in the end. It just feels like a more "right" ending.


...yeah I think I'll let her die lol.

The LI flashback during Shepard's sacrifice sequence has been fixed so yeah that will be pretty directly implied.

Not necessarily. I never finish ME2 without killing off a few squadmates just because it works better for people to die in a suicide mission. If Destroy or Merge fits other people's Shepard, they may pick it. Furthermore, if BW is so concerned with making sure some people pick destroy, make refusal win incredibly hard to get. Problem solved. Not that BW or anyone should care what ending players pick. After all, how many times were we told that this is OUR story. We should have the tools to have nearly any ending that fits in this universe and refuse win is one of them.

People already pick Destroy the most because its the ending where Shepard lives. Refuse/Win would negate the other choices and people would flock to Refuse/Win in droves because it would be the "right ending" and you know this.

And again, it would contradict the rest of the game.

 

[Matt]

The LI flashback during Shepard's sacrifice sequence has been fixed so yeah that will be pretty directly implied.




People already pick Destroy the most because its the ending where Shepard lives. Refuse/Win would negate the other choices and people would flock to Refuse/Win in droves because it would be the "right ending" and you know this.

And again, it would contradict the rest of the game.

No it wouldn't. But I am replaying right now and can think of several occasions that give hope/show the allied forces holding their own with Reapers (and if you trust what Hackett says about "Galactic readiness," while having it high, the allies are actually WINNING the war). But I suppose this is a matter where we must agree to disagree.

And so what if people pick it? Really, what is it to you? I'm genuinely curious. Why do you (or anyone else) care what ending another player picks?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

And Hackett repeatedly states the Reapers will bleed them dry. Every military leader says that they cannot keep this up. Every military leader states conventional victory is impossible. Their economy is going to collapse in a year. Earth has fallen, Thessia has fallen. Palavan is on the verge of falling. Dekuun has fallen. The Reapers took the Citadel as soon as they wanted it. The Reapers don't have supply lines or colonies for the allied forces to even chip at. Every world they harvest their forces are becoming more powerful. The entire Reaper force isn't even at Earth and the Allied Fleet is still getting thoroughly smashed.

Conventional victory is impossible.

 

[Balthus Dire]

You know, I kinda like knowing all the possible EC endings and crap ahead of time. It feels cool to be able to pick my own ending now rather than just dealing with the garbage Bioware handed out at launch.

Even though we're still technically limited by the endings Bioware chose to give us, it's still better now to be able to build your own ending, which was something the launch ME3 was missing horribly.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Totally agreed.

I mean getting to finish the game with my Shep proper and having a pretty happy ending and then going through with my FemShep and still managing to win but the galaxy getting utterly wasted and devastated with the entire Normandy crew dead felt very satisfying I will say.

 

[Matt]

And Hackett repeatedly states the Reapers will bleed them dry. Every military leader says that they cannot keep this up. Every military leader states conventional victory is impossible. Their economy is going to collapse in a year. Earth has fallen, Thessia has fallen. Palavan is on the verge of falling. Dekuun has fallen. The Reapers took the Citadel as soon as they wanted it. The Reapers don't have supply lines or colonies for the allied forces to even chip at. Every world they harvest their forces are becoming more powerful. The entire Reaper force isn't even at Earth and the Allied Fleet is still getting thoroughly smashed.

Conventional victory is impossible.

These are the same people who said that Reapers don't exist. These are the same people who said that the suicide mission was a suicide mission, yet you could survive that with an entire crew fully in tact. The Genophagde couldn't be cured. The Quarian/Geth War couldn't be ended peacefully. So on and so on and so on. This entire series has been about Shepard pulling off the impossible in the face of insurmountable odds. With a sufficient challenge to achieve it, a refuse win ending could've been incredibly rewarding.

But again, if it's not for you...don't play it. Why do you care if it is there?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

I think the military leaders of the galaxy know more about their own military abilities than Matt on the SHH boards.

And it is actually stated in ME2 that the better you prep your team the better you will do in the suicide mission. There is at no point a statement that with a large enough fleet the Allied forces can win. None.

 

[Matt]

I think the military leaders of the galaxy know more about their own military abilities than Matt on the SHH boards.

And it is actually stated in ME2 that the better you prep your team the better you will do in the suicide mission. There is at no point a statement that with a large enough fleet the Allied forces can win. None.

Now you're just being facetious because you don't have a satisfactory answer as to why it would bother you for someone else to have a different ending.

I can think of quite a few lines of dialogue that imply the opposite. But what would I know? I am just replaying the game as we speak. And I am replaying it with what you told me in mind last time we spoke on the matter and am making note of every time someone says to the contrary of your point.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Such as?

 

[Matt]

Such as?

Nothing major. Just little lines of dialogue here and there. For example, when I cured the genophage today, Victus (you know, a renowned general) says something along the lines of the allies now standing a chance in a ground war. Hackett has several lines about the allied forces holding their own, winning battles, etc. In fact, there is a very specific line, post Genophage cure where he says, "I'm starting to think that I was wrong and we can win this thing," or something to that extent. There is no huge neon sign that says "ALLIES WINNING!" but there is also no huge sign that says "WIN IMPOSSIBLE!"

Now you're going to say that Hackett also says that they can't win. Yep, he does. So that at best makes Hackett conflicted and confused.

There, I answered your question. Your turn. Why the **** do you care if someone else wants a different ending? If not for you, just don't pick it.

 

[eternalinferno]

Come on people let's keep it civil, things were actually calming as far as me3 ending debates go

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

Wait? Really?

Wow. I'm sorry - I just thought you actually had lines about military victory. The winning the war is on the condition that they get the Crucible built and into position - not fighting a battle that they cannot win.

As for the Hackett saying we're holding our ground when you have galactic readiness up: notice how it gradually decreases no matter how good you do? Its because the Reapers keep coming, no matter how many Husks you kill. They will chip day after day at that wonderful 100% readiness score and eventually they will chip away all of your progress.

Because like Hackett says the Reapers will eventually bleed them dry.

As for the endings: because I will pick it - simply because Refuse/Win is the "right ending" and I do like Control. It doesn't matter, the way I am and I suspect a lot of gamers are they will congregate to the "right ending".

 

[Matt]

Sorry mate, I don't take time to write down quotes. But Victus does specifically mentions a ground war. I do remember that.

But your entire objection seems to be that because you have no willpower and it is not the ending that you want but the ending that you will pick, no one should have it. That is like saying there should be no cake in the world because there are fat people who lack the willpower to diet.

Annnnyyywaaaay, changing subject because you are always going to see me as a whiney fanboy and I am always going to see you as a pathetic apologist, so we may as well agree to disagree.

Does anyone find it odd that this game, which has arguably made revolutions and mad western RPGs mainstream, essentially becomes a JRPG in the end? It goes from very open to very linear, has an odd, ambiguous ending that relies heavily on an out of nowhere twist that really doesn't make any sense. I wonder if Square Enix's team popped into the BW office to help them with the ending?