MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 3

[Iceman]

No doubt about that, we've got a lot to look forward to.
I see a lot of people saying that this next sequel will either equal or surpass the original one's box office take; I think I might be the only one who is somewhat hesitant to make that claim. It wouldn't shock me if it did, I'm sure AoU will gross over a billion with ease, but I'm not positive how it will compare to the first one. We'll have to wait and see.
And if it did end up not outgrossing it's predecessor I can already hear the idiots here. "Oh wow, well I guess this movie just didn't resonate with people. Clearly the Marvel brand is dying."

I think there's a chance it makes less domestically although I expect it to make slightly more. But overseas will be a different story. Just in the 3 years between the films the market will have/has grown significantly, especially in the regions where Avengers will be popular. And awareness is much higher this time around. Avengers is the biggest natural franchise performer at the moment. Other films that have done more were more about one off glory and have to pull out all the stops to do similar money again. With Avengers I don't think it needs to do a lot beyond putting in a new villain and adding some new characters to do the same numbers and if it's a great film (Ultron is Whedon's bucket list project so I'm confident) it can blow past its last overseas number.

 

[meanmc]

I see a lot of people saying that this next sequel will either equal or surpass the original one's box office take; I think I might be the only one who is somewhat hesitant to make that claim. It wouldn't shock me if it did, I'm sure AoU will gross over a billion with ease, but I'm not positive how it will compare to the first one. We'll have to wait and see.

For me, it is no question - especially after Cap 2: Winter Soldier and GotG - that AoU will crush everything Marvel had till now...

 

[Flint Marko]

I think there's a chance it makes less domestically although I expect it to make slightly more. But overseas will be a different story. Just in the 3 years between the films the market will have/has grown significantly, especially in the regions where Avengers will be popular. And awareness is much higher this time around. Avengers is the biggest natural franchise performer at the moment. Other films that have done more were more about one off glory and have to pull out all the stops to do similar money again. With Avengers I don't think it needs to do a lot beyond putting in a new villain and adding some new characters to do the same numbers and if it's a great film (Ultron is Whedon's bucket list project so I'm confident) it can blow past its last overseas number.

For me, it is no question - especially after Cap 2: Winter Soldier and GotG - that AoU will crush everything Marvel had till now...

I certainty admire yalls confidence haha. Let's hope you're both right!
Once the hype builds in the coming months we'll probably get a solid gauge as to how strong the box office will be.

 

[Iceman]

I think I predicted $2.3B. IM3 went crazy after the Avengers boost after 2 films that made the same (about half). Now AoU will get it's own Avengers boost.

 

[Iceman]

I certainty admire yalls confidence haha. Let's hope you're both right!
Once the hype builds in the coming months we'll probably get a solid gauge as to how strong the box office will be.

It'll take a while to get a useful guage on overseas numbers but for now all eyes on that US opening weekend. I hope you guys are opening new cinemas and extending the ones you do have.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think I predicted $2.3B. IM3 went crazy after the Avengers boost after 2 films that made the same (about half). Now AoU will get it's own Avengers boost.

A very good point. If this movie breaks 2 billion I will throw a parade in excitement lol.

It'll take a while to get a useful guage on overseas numbers but for now all eyes on that US opening weekend. I hope you guys are opening new cinemas and extending the ones you do have.

Fun story, my friend works at a theater about two miles from my house in my hometown. It's a very nice, very big state of the art theater and he's worked there since about 2008; the Friday when the Avengers came out he was texting me the whole day saying he had never seen anything like it, they were swarmed with people, and they had to cancel screenings of other movies (including the hunger games) to keep up with demand because every screening of the Avengers sold out in record time.
He's joked that he's gonna make sure he won't be working when this next one comes out because he can't handle that kind of stress again.

 

[Iceman]

A very good point. If this movie breaks 2 billion I will throw a parade in excitement lol.


Fun story, my friend works at a theater about two miles from my house in my hometown. It's a very nice, very big state of the art theater and he's worked there since about 2008; the Friday when the Avengers came out he was texting me the whole day saying he had never seen anything like it, they were swarmed with people, and they had to cancel screenings of other movies (including the hunger games) to keep up with demand because every screening of the Avengers sold out in record time.
He's joked that he's gonna make sure he won't be working when this next one comes out because he can't handle that kind of stress again.

Great to hear haha.

And the AoU box office thread will be the most exciting one since Avatar.

 

[DigificWriter]

I've got a straight-up question (I posted this question as a conversation jump-starter elsewhere, but here it's just a question):
Without breaking things up and intercutting between them, what do you guys think is the best way to view the MCU films/one-shots/tv series (including the upcoming Agent Carter) in terms of in-universe chronology?

 

[MbJ]

Are we including the comics?

If not I'd say

Captain America
Agent Carter (one-shot)
Agent Carter (TV series)
Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
The Consultant
Iron Man 2
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Thor's Hammer
Thor
The Avengers
Item 47
Iron Man 3
All Hail The King
The first half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 1
Thor: The Dark World
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
The second half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 1
First half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 2
Guardians of the Galaxy

 

[DigificWriter]

Are we including the comics?

If not I'd say

Captain America
Agent Carter (one-shot)
Agent Carter (TV series)
Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
The Consultant
Iron Man 2
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Thor's Hammer
Thor
The Avengers
Item 47
Iron Man 3
All Hail The King
The first half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 1
Thor: The Dark World
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
The second half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 1
First half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 2
Guardians of the Galaxy

I said not to break things up, but what do you do? You break things up.

I'm curious as to your reasoning for ordering everything else the way you did, though.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Are we including the comics?

If not I'd say

Captain America
Agent Carter (one-shot)
Agent Carter (TV series)
Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk
The Consultant
Iron Man 2
A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Thor's Hammer
Thor
The Avengers
Item 47
Iron Man 3
All Hail The King
The first half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 1
Thor: The Dark World
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
The second half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 1
First half of Agents of SHIELD, Season 2
Guardians of the Galaxy

I'm pretty sure the Agent Carter tv show comes before the one-shot, but since I've not seen it yet I don't know how important that is.
And I don't think it really matters where you place GotG yet.

About not breaking it up: If you wouldn't want to break up Agents of Shield season 1 you'd either have to watch it before Thor the Dark World, but then the show would already show things that happen in T:TDW and CA:TWS as they already happened in those episodes, or you'd watch them after CA:TWS, but then the first half of the show would pretend that there is no Hydra, that SHIELD is still standing and Fury is the director and Sitwell is still alive, so that won't work out either.

AOS is just made to run synchronously with the movies as they come out, so for season 1 I'd say you'd have to split it in three.
With first episode 1-7, then T:TDW, then episodes 8-16, then CA:TWS and then episodes 17-22.

 

[DigificWriter]

I don't see why you couldn't watch all of AoS either after Thor: The Dark World and Cap: TWS or after Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

I don't see why you couldn't watch all of AoS either after Thor: The Dark World and Cap: TWS or after Guardians of the Galaxy.

you could do that, but it wouldn't make any sense

 

[DigificWriter]

^ How wouldn't it? If AoS has its own fairly self-contained narrative (which it should), the only impact that TDW and TWS should have on it is of a spoilery nature, so as long as you watch it after you've seen TDW and TWS, there ought not to be any problems.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

^ How wouldn't it? If AoS has its own fairly self-contained narrative (which it should), the only impact that TDW and TWS should have on it is of a spoilery nature, so as long as you watch it after you've seen TDW and TWS, there ought not to be any problems.

what do you guys think is the best way to view the MCU films/one-shots/tv series (including the upcoming Agent Carter) in terms of in-universe chronology?

chronologically it makes no sense to not split it up

 

[DigificWriter]

^ That statement makes no sense. Watching things chronologically should not in any way depend on watching TWS smack-dab in the middle of watching AoS Season 1, at least not if the showrunners were doing their job right.

It's narratively counterproductive for a writer to assume that audiences are familiar with everything that has happened in a shared universe and consequently hinge the narrative cohesiveness of a particular piece of said universe on said audience familiarity.

 

[Silvermoon]

^ That statement makes no sense. Watching things chronologically should not in any way depend on watching TWS smack-dab in the middle of watching AoS Season 1, at least not if the showrunners were doing their job right.

It's narratively counterproductive for a writer to assume that audiences are familiar with everything that has happened in a shared universe and consequently hinge the narrative cohesiveness of a particular piece of said universe on said audience familiarity.

R_Hythlodeus statement makes perfect sense, chronologically within the MCU, there are specific events of SHIELD that occur before events of TWS and specific events of SHIELD that occur after. It's the MCU, everything is connected. The shows do not exist/were not created in a vacuum. The showrunners went into the first season knowing that there was a major reveal in TWS on the horizon (they saw TWS script before season 1 went into production) and they planned their season 1 story arc accordingly to have certain setups and followups centered around that reveal since it impacted them in a MAJOR way. I imagine Age of Ultron to be the same way. SHIELD is going to come back in March after break, have most episodes air of the 2nd half of the season, then Age of Ultron will be released and then a following 3 episodes will air after that movie. I imagine at least one of those ending episodes will have fallout from Ultron and won't truly fit anywhere chronologically except after that movie comes out. This is the nature of tv shows, they run over a long period of time, so with the MCU being interconnected there's going to be overlap (chronologically) with the movies.

I agree with SirStrangefolk and R_Hythlodeus. Chronologically, it wouldn't make sense if you don't break up the season(s) of the tv show(s). And if I were to do a major MCU marathon, my list would look similar (but maybe a touch different) from Mbj's. I'd probably do:

Captain America: The First Avenger (because the bulk takes place during WWII)
Agent Carter (TV series) (if it does indeed take place before the one-shot, otherwise it might be shifted to after the one-shot)
- Agent Carter (one-shot)
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
- A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer (one-shot)
The Incredible Hulk
- The Consultant (one-shot) (Coulson and Sitwell look like they could be in a diner that's out in New Mexico - hence why I put the Funny Thing one-shot first)
Thor
The Avengers
- Item 47 (one-shot)
Iron Man 3
- All Hail The King (one-shot)
Agents of SHIELD, Season 1 Episodes 1-7
Thor: The Dark World
Agents of SHIELD, Season 1 Episodes 8-16
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Agents of SHIELD, Season 1 Episodes 17-22
Guardians of the Galaxy (James Gunn has said it takes place when it came out, so August 2014)
Agents of SHIELD, Season 2 Episodes 1-19
Age of Ultron
Agents of SHIELD, Season 2 Episodes 20-22 (this is assuming at least one of these final episodes has fallout from Ultron)

 

[DigificWriter]

Star Trek is a shared universe, but its writers didn't expect you to watch DS9 Seasons 1 and 2 concurrently with the final two seasons of TNG or the last 5 seasons of DS9 concurrently with the majority of Voyager in order to understand what was going on with those respective series' narratives.

If the people behind AoS did in fact structure their narrative so that you were required to have seen TDW and TWS - and watch them smack-dab in the middle of the series' first season - in order to understand what was going on, then it's a weakness of the show rather than a strength, especially when it comes to making the series appeal to a broad audience.

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Star Trek is a shared universe, but its writers didn't expect you to watch DS9 Seasons 1 and 2 concurrently with the final two seasons of TNG or the last 5 seasons of DS9 concurrently with the majority of Voyager in order to understand what was going on with those respective series' narratives.
.

Buffy TVS and Angel are a shared universe too and those series make a lot more sense if you watch them concurrently as they are, in fact connected to each other whereas DS9 and VOY take place in two very distant parts of the galaxy and whatever happend in one show didn't affect the other.
On the other hand, both Insurrection and Nemesis acknowledge things that happend during DS9, because the war against the Dominion affected the Federation in the Alpha and Beta quadrant.

TWS is similar. The events of TWS are too big, especially for SHIELD as an organization to not affect the show

 

[DigificWriter]

^ There's a difference between a particular series' narrative being enriched by knowledge of what's happening elsewhere and said series' narrative being DEPENDENT on knowledge of what's happening elsewhere.

It is entirely possible to watch the entirety of ANGEL without having any more than a passing knowledge of Buffy the Vampire Slayer because ANGEL's narrative is completely self-contained and, aside from a few crossover instances, does not hinge on whether or not general audiences are intimately familiar with its 'sister series'.

By stating that the only way AoS makes sense is if you pause its narrative flow in order to watch Thor: The Dark World and Captain America: The Winter Soldier, you're arguing that the writers made understanding AoS' narrative DEPENDENT on knowledge of those two films and the events they describe, which is not good narrative policy and indicates a number of flaws and weaknesses in the narrative of AoS because it means that said narrative had to be made dependent on what happens in TDW and TWS in order to have any true 'oomph'.

 

[Art Freak]

Dear Lord, man. Of course you could watch the show uninterrupted if you wanted to but it's more fun and interesting to watch these things as they occur. Why are you having such a hard time with this. Watching "AoS" in six or seven episode blocks is just like having an arc in a comic book. I too have watched "Buffy/Angel" and all of "Star Trek" in the order of continuity and it's much more fun. There are lists out there you can find that order everything perfectly. Of course I actually watched all these when they actually aired too, which was kinda the point when a crossover occurred. The MCU is no different.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Yes, while everything you need to know is explained perfectly well within AOS, you get to understand it a lot better if you've seen the film, and it's also a lot more fun. Plus, if you're going to watch everything anyway, especially chronologically, then why not watch it in the order that makes the most sense? While you don't need to watch the movies to get what's happening in the show or the other way around, it's still not a real chronological order. Imagine this: If a character crosses over in both the films and series and then dies in the films, it will still be explained in the series if it's important so you don't need to see the film, but it wouldn't really make sense to watch the film first and then go back to watch earlier episodes of the show where suddenly this character you saw die pops up as if nothing happened.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ People have yet to explain how disrupting AoS' narrative flow in order to put TDW and TWS in the middle of its first season "makes the most sense", especially if the option exists to watch TDW, TWS, and AoS in their entirety consecutively in that order.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

^ People have yet to explain how disrupting AoS' narrative flow in order to put TDW and TWS in the middle of its first season "makes the most sense", especially if the option exists to watch TDW, TWS, and AoS in their entirety consecutively in that order.

Well, for example it doesn't make a lot of sense to first watch something where Hydra turns up, SHIELD is destroyed, Fury goes undercover, Sitwell turns out to by Hydra and dies, etc. Only to the watch something about SHIELD, without Hydra, where Fury turns up as the director of SHIELD, and where SHIELD agents work together with Sitwell who is alive.

 

[Art Freak]

Also, you're pretending that the show was only ever available in a binge-able platform. This is network TV. It's "narrative flow" has already been broken up over several weeks. Hence, multiple big screen movies being released in between episodes. Just view the episodes as if they are a block or arc or run. They still work that way and their flow isn't disrupted. You're almost being difficult on purpose at this point. It's a very simple concept.