MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 5

[Detective Conan]

Rather interesting considering the MCU borrows more from the 1610(the Ultimate ) universe than the 616 universe.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Protar]

Regarding the Netflix shows I think we have to accept that they'll be decanonised and rebooted later on down the line. Between the fact that Disney can't even start planning new content with these characters for another two years and the fact that the MCU has now jumped forwards five years there's really no way they can pick up where things left off. The actors won't wait around for the 4-5 years it'll take to get new content off the ground and in terms of the story, by the time those shows air the MCU will be a decade ahead of the last Marvel Netflix shows (which will take place in 2017/18).

It's sad but at the same time this is a new opportunity to fully integrate these characters into the MCU and in general I'm excited to see the Disney+ shows crossing over properly with the movies. I reckon we could even see these characters get the movie treatment. Daredevil has always been a fairly well known character, big enough to get a movie. A Luke Cage movie (featuring Jessica Jones) would line up with Disney's plans for a more diverse lineup of leads. Iron Fist could appear in a Shang-Chi sequel (and a Luke Cage sequel further down the line.). Daredevil and Kingpin could cross over with Spiderman.​

 

[The Ironstar]

Midnight Sons is never happening

Let's hope y're wrong.

 

[The Ironstar]

It's all connected in theory. In theory, communism works.

 

[metaphysician]

I remain boggled by the idea that there are only two binary options: "Independent unrelated continuities" and "Constant two-way crossovers". You all do realize the world is very big, right?

The Avengers do not need to cameo or easter egg Daredevil for Daredevil to exist in the same world. There are almost certainly numerous heroes all over the world that the Avengers don't cameo in the movies, because they aren't important to the movies or the characters in said movies.

( Now, Agents of SHIELD, that show legitimately does have compatibility problems, because there are people and events in the show that by all logic *should* draw the attention and interest of the Avengers and other people operating at that scale, but don't. To say nothing of having an interpretation of the Accords that is at best questionably similar to the one actually present in the movies, and an outright contradictory take on a major point of cosmological law. This is why Agents of SHIELD almost certainly isn't canon, and hasn't been for years. This does not mean that, say, Daredevil, or Cloak & Dagger, has any such similar problem. )

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Mandon Knight]

Due to my love of , going to give FFH a watch at the cinema in July. Embrace this part of the MCU and all that.....

 

[THORin]

And I’ve just started watching (and really enjoying) AoS too! The continuity issues drive me insane, though.

 

[HunBoy]

Disney to Assume Full Operational Control of Hulu

 

[Spider-Fan]

No mention of Hulk or anything else in the deal. But valuing Hulu at almost 27.5 billion? Yikes. I assume Comcast is getting 30% of that value. So almost like $10 billion.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Disney is collecting ALL of their Infinity Stones this year. They are not playing.

 

[metaphysician]

And I’ve just started watching (and really enjoying) AoS too! The continuity issues drive me insane, though.

In retrospect, I think Agents of SHIELD was doomed as a show before the pilot even aired. Fundamentally, it wanted to be "NCIS Marvel", only to find out before they even started that the load bearing setting elements it was going to sit upon, were going to get kicked out from under it. Not only did this force years of conceptual redesigns, but it established the core problem that it could not rely on a static setting as its basis, because the MCU was not going to be static.

Even if they dodged this problem, mind, by starting a year or two earlier and getting proper momentum and foundation before the Hydra Reveal? They would have still ran into the *other* fatal problem, that the writers want the show to be "big scale", yet the nature of TV vs Movie development cycles means that, no matter the intentions, the movies will always be the dominant players and the TV shows left to react. This can be avoided by simply picking a suitable concept that can stay in its own lane and not rely on or overlap with the movies. . . but AoS didn't want to be that.

Hence why, in the end, insofar as AoS manages to work? It manages to work by largely ignoring the movies and doing its own thing. Thus the continuity mess.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think AoS had bigger issues than continuity. From the start it was poorly written with terrible characters and outside of Gegg, Wen and the rotating special guest stars like Paxton, Olmos etc. the cast wasn't all that great either.

It's always been CW DC with a bigger budget.

It could have linked up perfectly with the MCU films and those issues would still be apparent and bring it down.

 

[THORin]

I think AoS had bigger issues than continuity. From the start it was poorly written with terrible characters and outside of Gegg, Wen and the rotating special guest stars like Paxton, Olmos etc. the cast wasn't all that great either.

It's always been CW DC with a bigger budget.

It could have linked up perfectly with the MCU films and those issues would still be apparent and bring it down.

Really? I quite enjoy the writing, for the most part: I’ve only just started watching season 4 and it still seems retry good. I thought season 3 was great.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Having rewatched season recently, the first two episodes are far and away the weakest two episodes. But it bled viewers early on before the show got good.

 

[Flint Marko]

Really? I quite enjoy the writing, for the most part: I’ve only just started watching season 4 and it still seems retry good. I thought season 3 was great.

No lie, season 4 is up there with Daredevil and Agent Carter S1 as some of the best comic book television ever made.

Pretty much everyone who stuck with AoS could tell you how dramatically it's improved from the incredibly rough season 1.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

No lie, season 4 is up there with Daredevil and Agent Carter S1 as some of the best comic book television ever made.

Pretty much everyone who stuck with AoS could tell you how dramatically it's improved from the incredibly rough season 1.

Seasons 2-4 are all quality IMO (with, of course, a handful of episodes here and there that are subpar). Season 1 took a long time to hit its stride, and personally I feel like Season 5 falls behind the previous three seasons (previous 2 at least) in terms of consistent quality.

 

[flickchick85]

I’m not really into AoS all that much but even I can admit S4 (after the lackluster opening Ghost Rider arc) is better than anything on DC/CW except maybe Flash S1 (after the opening few eps of that one too when it was still finding it’s footing), and not because of the bigger budget.

Despite few of their arcs actually working for me, I do have to admire the show a lot for their bold ambition in later seasons.

 

[Zarex]

In retrospect, I think Agents of SHIELD was doomed as a show before the pilot even aired. Fundamentally, it wanted to be "NCIS Marvel", only to find out before they even started that the load bearing setting elements it was going to sit upon, were going to get kicked out from under it. Not only did this force years of conceptual redesigns, but it established the core problem that it could not rely on a static setting as its basis, because the MCU was not going to be static.

Even if they dodged this problem, mind, by starting a year or two earlier and getting proper momentum and foundation before the Hydra Reveal? They would have still ran into the *other* fatal problem, that the writers want the show to be "big scale", yet the nature of TV vs Movie development cycles means that, no matter the intentions, the movies will always be the dominant players and the TV shows left to react. This can be avoided by simply picking a suitable concept that can stay in its own lane and not rely on or overlap with the movies. . . but AoS didn't want to be that.

Hence why, in the end, insofar as AoS manages to work? It manages to work by largely ignoring the movies and doing its own thing. Thus the continuity mess.

After an extremely bumpy start I thought the show, after the Hydra reveal, was set up as a group of rag tag former agents working in the shadows. The AOS-Team. THAT show could have worked in continuity with the movies, though it would have been tough for any ongoing series to survive an imposed 5 year time jump.

But by the following year the show had a large base, lots of equipment, dozens of agents and an unknown funding source. It didn't make much sense in itself, and especially as part of the MCU. There's been some highlights - Season 4 was outstanding - but I would have preferred a smaller scaled show.

 

[Kuwolski]

One of the most loyal fanbases going of any show

One of the most popular shows worldwide.

The best moments of the show are as well written as any of the top acclaimed Netflix shows.

Many fans of the "MCU" have become fans largely because of AoS (yes it's true), despite the tenuous connection to the films or any other issues.

It's popular to look down on it in some circles, but as an objective measure of success and creating a global fan base it's hardly a failure. The showrunner's and show have improved so much since S1 it's admirable and something that needs to be said.

I hope they get another Marvel show to work on in the future

 

[psylockolussus]

Really? I quite enjoy the writing, for the most part: I’ve only just started watching season 4 and it still seems retry good. I thought season 3 was great.

To me, its like the writers have seen too many sci fi shows and decided to copy them into the show. A lot of the things are predictable and cliche. The costume department seems to hate colors, as everybody wears black and gray. The acting isn't really good as well especially the actor playing Fitz. And right now, the show seems to lost its direction. Its definitely been in the air for too long.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Agents of SHIELD is perfectly fine TV. Season 4 was their best work by far, but for weekly TV, it's just fine. It doesn't elevate the medium or anything, but it's perfectly fine episodic TV.

 

[DarkKnight88]

With so much great content out there, “fine” isn’t worth it. Life’s too short.

 

[Spider-Fan]

With so much great content out there, “fine” isn’t worth it. Life’s too short.

This is probably true, but I watch it anyway. Starting new shows sometimes is too daunting. Like, I want to get into American Horror Story or Breaking Bad. Both I have heard great things about. But in particular, AHS is a show my fiance I know would hate. So I'd have to watch it myself, and I don't get that type of time to myself. So it keeps piling up seasons I don't watch. In the case of AoS, I already started it, so no catching up required.