Dark of the Moon Michael Bay has killed Transformers for me

[Marvin]

Whats the point of this?

The point is that it wasn't until I was "educated" as to the existence of the stereotype by way of mostly "racist jokes" that I even became aware that it was a stereotype.

The only reason some people think all black people love watermelon is because they were told it at some point, or rather they were brought up to think that way.

I didn't know I was supposed to like rap and, by extension, rappers.

actually it's white suburban kids that all like rappers.
duh.

 

[nogap87]

actually it's white suburban kids that all like rappers.
duh.

Yea but I'm the one who can relate to "the message".

 

[BigThor]

Whatever amount it cost, it wouldn't look like an 80s cartoon. I don't know what you mean by "unproven film franchise".

Oops, I meant why would they spend an extra 50 million, not 200 million. By unproven I was referring to the first Transformers film, because movies that are the first film in a franchise are unproven. Take for Harry Potter for example, it is a proven franchise now but it wasn't when the first one was released.

Pretty much. I'm just trying to figure out why people think it would look like Roger Rabbit.

I never said the G1 would look bad, I just think the current designs are the best suited for live action.

 

[Dr Tactics]

alright, from now on I will try to address the points you bring up.

bay fans, the few ones that actually say something on the internet at risk of being flammed by raging ain't it cool like talkbackers, are hardly up tight. You people...oh wait..I mean to say..it's the haters that are "offended." Fans of the series or bays work are just here to have a good time.

silly with taste and silly without taste has nothing to do with how well the film was received.
Last time I checked the Hangover is a "tasteless" film and it's very well received by critics and audiences everywhere.

There is nothing wrong with the twins outside of the fact that they fall flat in this type of film.. the movie Cars has a hill billy car equivalent to the humor of the mentally challenged twins and it's silly, but because the twins are perceived as black it's racist. Like many things when it comes to bay, there is a double standard.

If Michael Bay directed Medea's family vacation next, I wonder how many heads would explode due to the "racist jokes" and stereo types present throughout those kinda films.

Ya know the problem with Skids and Mudflap was that they were "over the top" ignorant and was more mocking than funny but, Bay doesn't know the difference. Most will say that they were unnessesary in ROTF. The white guy that gets black funny is Kelsey Grammer (Girlfriends, The Game, etc) so its about the creator and not the color of the creators skin. BAY F-ED UP!! He has no respect for Transformers fans as a whole and Mudflap and Skids was a double "whammy".

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

The point is that it wasn't until I was "educated" as to the existence of the stereotype by way of mostly "racist jokes" that I even became aware that it was a stereotype.

Ahh, your using the word "educated" differently then I originally thought.

sorry

 

[Marvin]

Ahh, your using the word "educated" differently then I originally thought.

sorry

no problem

 

[nogap87]

Oops, I meant why would they spend an extra 50 million, not 200 million. By unproven I was referring to the first Transformers film, because movies that are the first film in a franchise are unproven. Take for Harry Potter for example, it is a proven franchise now but it wasn't when the first one was released.

Ah. I just threw out a high number.

I never said the G1 would look bad, I just think the current designs are the best suited for live action.

That's the thing. A bunch of scrap metal with legs is just as ridiculous as boxes stacked on top of each other. No one can really say what was/is best suited for live action since there has never been a G1ish live action movie.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

That's the thing. A bunch of scrap metal with legs is just as ridiculous as boxes stacked on top of each other.

Not with the back story Bay was useing.

I would have prefered a more "G1"-ish look, but truth be told, Bays designs look more fitting for a organic robotic life form from an other planet.

G1 designs have always looked "man made", not alien natural born/evolved life from an other planet.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

alright, from now on I will try to address the points you bring up.

bay fans, the few ones that actually say something on the internet at risk of being flammed by raging ain't it cool like talkbackers, are hardly up tight. You people...oh wait..I mean to say..it's the haters that are "offended." Fans of the series or bays work are just here to have a good time.

there goes that sarcasm again ....smh i dont know how me given my opinion makes me a hater...M.Bay never did anything to me...i guess again if we have opinions opposite of yours we are "haters" who ever thought there can never be a thing called "difference of opinions" *shrugs shoulders*

silly with taste and silly without taste has nothing to do with how well the film was received.
Last time I checked the Hangover is a "tasteless" film and it's very well received by critics and audiences everywhere.

but yet m.bay recognizes the mistakes with the film, and also goes out his way to say the tone of the 3rd film will be much more serious then the "silly WELL RECEIVED" film you speak of...ahh ok *shrugs shoulders*

There is nothing wrong with the twins outside of the fact that they fall flat in this type of film.. the movie Cars has a hill billy car equivalent to the humor of the mentally challenged twins and it's silly, but because the twins are perceived as black it's racist. Like many things when it comes to bay, there is a double standard.

there's nothing wrong with the twins, but yet they stirred up controversey..(oh wait..according to you those are just "bay haters", "fan boys")...ahh again "ok"...also you are doing alot of "coming to the aid of bay here" honestly it's quite disgusting man..really some ppl dont like his work....like i said..such is life...deal with it.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

To be fair I think if this series was directed by anyone but Bay(maybe M Night) with no changes it wouldnt get nearly the amount of flack it does.

for me if it sucks..i'm gonna say it sucks..i dont care who directs this..i said that before

 

[nogap87]

Not with the back story Bay was useing.

I would have prefered a more "G1"-ish look, but truth be told, Bays designs look more fitting for a organic robotic life form from an other planet.

G1 designs have always looked "man made", not alien natural born/evolved life from an other planet.

Organic looking robots would have been fine if they weren't in constant war. OP kicks a lot of ass in the movies but he looks a little fragile when you compare him to any other Prime from past (or current) franchises. The movie designs has been great for the advancement of Transformer toys but as actual war robots...not so much.

It's no real surprise that humans can kill these Transformers.

 

[Marvin]

there goes that sarcasm again ....smh i dont know how me given my opinion makes me a hater...M.Bay never did anything to me...i guess again if we have opinions opposite of yours we are "haters" who ever thought there can never be a thing called "difference of opinions" *shrugs shoulders*

Bay hater = someone who hates Bay's work.
last I checked you do. It's only as offensive as you want it to be.

I never said anyone that has an opinion that opposes mine makes them anything..i believe that would be a strawman argument but I'm out of practice with terms.

For the last time, I am not lumping you in with the people I just described, in fact I just made a point not to. However, it seems like you are denying that these people do exist? are you?

but yet m.bay recognizes the mistakes with the film, and also goes out his way to say the tone of the 3rd film will be much more serious then the "silly WELL RECEIVED" film you speak of...ahh ok *shrugs shoulders*

like I said

Originally Posted by Marvin....
silly with taste and silly without taste has nothing to do with how well the film was received.
Last time I checked the Hangover is a "tasteless" film and it's very well received by critics and audiences everywhere.

I thought we were talking about tastelessness
but since we're not, yes bay is going of a more serious tone...yay, the over dramtic tone of his past films that gets so much praise...
sarcasm.

there's nothing wrong with the twins, but yet they stirred up controversey..(oh wait..according to you those are just "bay haters", "fan boys")...ahh again "ok"...also you are doing alot of "coming to the aid of bay here" honestly it's quite disgusting man..really some ppl dont like his work....like i said..such is life...deal with it.

and like I said

Originally Posted by Marvin....
the movie Cars has a hill billy car equivalent to the humor of the mentally challenged twins and it's silly, but because the twins are perceived as black it's racist. Like many things when it comes to bay, there is a double standard.

The twins stirred up controversy, but the hangover didn't and it had a naked chinese man with a rotten accent and a mental capacity of a 6 year old. why was ebert offended by one but not the other? Tell me why and I'll stop.
Controversy? You mean like enough for CNN to cover or enough for people to make points on message boards and reviews about how bay movies are bad for cinema?

meh
once you're done being disgusted, relax a bit.
some people don't like the films and some people do

District 9 is the only film I've seen as of late that crosses any lines of offensiveness with it's cannibal scam artist nigerians among other things yet no one brings it up. I'd be inclined to bring up big mama's house of the other fat black women comedies that come out every year, but...they're silly comedies, not to be taken seriously.

...but bay with his silly robots that can't read and trip over their own feet and talk like gangster rappers are offensive and stirring controversy.

But hey, bay said the silly humor is going to be addressed so you and the haters(see two different people) should be exicted no?

 

[Mr. Earle]

While Bay's TF are rather crap in most aspects, the designs are by far my favourite from all other TF franchises. I love the organic look. They re alien robots first and cars and planes second. They re not cars whose hoods turn into feet and trunks into arms.

Sure, sometimes they go overboard with all the details and **** it all up (mostly the decepticons), but 90% of the Autobots have been great, and Prime, Megatron, and Bumblebee are simply fantastic. Megatron is this beastly mofo that you dont wanna mess with (i almost **** my pants when he was chasing down Sam in TF1) and i'm also digging his Bayish design in the new cartoon. I really dont know wtf is up with his new truck mode and that cloth over his shoulders.

Starscream is kinda awkward especially when he fights, but he was great in the first film. Remember when he just terrorizes the Autobots in the city ("it's Starscream" as in "oh **** we re so ****ed") and chases down Sam with the cube? So badass.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

Bay hater = someone who hates Bay's work.
last I checked you do. It's only as offensive as you want it to be.

not a offended..this is a very bland explanation by you...i'm no where near the "hate/haters" you really want to address.

I never said anyone that has an opinion that opposes mine makes them anything..i believe that would be a strawman argument but I'm out of practice with terms.

no you didnt say so, but your approach...your williness to try to have a counterpoint to everything i have to say and anyone else on this matter speaks others wise...

For the last time, I am not lumping you in with the people I just described, in fact I just made a point not to. However, it seems like you are denying that these people do exist? are you?

never will i deny that..i think i said its' 50/50 here with how ppl view this film...so where does that speak of me being in denial in anyway..i know how this goes for fans of these kind of movies.....

I thought we were talking about tastelessness
but since we're not, yes bay is going of a more serious tone...yay, the over dramtic tone of his past films that gets so much praise...
sarcasm.

u lost me...we are talking about taste/quality of a film...if there wasnt an issue, then i can only assume bay wouldn't have apologized for the 2nd film..i mean it's along the lines of taste, tasteless, tastelessness.."you say tomato i say tamato...." *shrug shoulders*

The twins stirred up controversy, but the hangover didn't and it had a naked chinese man with a rotten accent and a mental capacity of a 6 year old. why was ebert offended by one but not the other? Tell me why and I'll stop.
Controversy? You mean like enough for CNN to cover or enough for people to make points on message boards and reviews about how bay movies are bad for cinema?.

See this is the problem i have with you going back n forth..Why are we even talking about or even bring in CNN or movies such as "the hangover"???? Like are you just gonna use anything that is "controversal" to make a point? That's going way too far then this situation needs to be, and i can not tell you what another man is thinking, just like you can not tell me what M.Bay is thinking onless you have some type of kin-ship to him; and "the hangover" is a diff. movie with a different target'd audience compared to TF..

i mean you are intelligent enough to know that..so even trying to compare the reaction of a critic to two different type of movies makes no sense..and you know what type of controversy of a facitional character i'm talking about...nothing related to the happenings of a media outlet such as CNN, to bring in CNN makes no sense to me...the word "controversy" can be used or seen in the manner that YOU WANT TO LOOK AT IT IN....

really..i'm cool man with you, no disrespect towards you what so ever..you to me just have a wild hair across your *beep* about anything negative about M.Bay..and really i just dont get it...like let it go already..i think at the end of the day we both want a good TF3 movie....

we good man.. *thumbs up*

 

[Marvin]

no you didnt say so, but your approach...your williness to try to have a counterpoint to everything i have to say and anyone else on this matter speaks others wise...

actually I only address the things I think are worth counter pointing, I gotta admit I don't like seeing untrue points go unchallenged. More over, it's easy.
It seems like the more I respond to you the more you see me as this person that always responds to you...
all I can say to that is that it takes two to tango.

u lost me...we are talking about taste/quality of a film...if there wasnt an issue, then i can only assume bay wouldn't have apologized for the 2nd film..i mean it's along the lines of taste, tasteless, tastelessness.."you say tomato i say tamato...." *shrug shoulders*

Wrong
Batman and Robin was silly(in the vain of Adam West) it wasn't tasteless.
there is a difference.

Now when applied to the context of these movies, statements like "bay will address the tonal sillyness" can't just be interpreted by you as "see even bay said it was tasteless!"

cool?

See this is the problem i have with you going back n forth..Why are we even talking about or even bring in CNN or movies such as "the hangover"???? Like are you just gonna use anything that is "controversal" to make a point? That's going way too far then this situation needs to be, and i can not tell you what another man is thinking, just like you can not tell me what M.Bay is thinking onless you have some type of kin-ship to him;

Hey you're the one who said controversial, how was I supposed to know you didn't mean it literally. CNN has covered controversial movies in the past. Such as "Black Face," "Fahrenheit 911" and so on. All this time I thought you people meant Michael Bay was making Controversial films.

Hey you're words, I'm just trying to understand.

and "the hangover" is a diff. movie with a different target'd audience compared to TF..

If something is offensive it doesn't matter what kinda movie it's in. You, yourself personally should only be offended if the "joke" is offensive. period.
Are the Robots racist or not, what does it matter that it's based on an 80's cartoon?

Argue all you want that it doesn't fit in the TF lore, but people are saying racist robots!

i mean you are intelligent enough to know that..so even trying to compare the reaction of a critic to two different type of movies makes no sense..

Many critics said they were offended by the stereo typical robots(this is the controversy I assume you were talking about). They didn't say because this is a kids movie that they were offended, they said, this is racist and wrong!

Well, I simply ask, why here and nowhere else?

really..i'm cool man with you, no disrespect towards you what so ever..you to me just have a wild hair across your *beep* about anything negative about M.Bay..and really i just dont get it...like let it go already..i think at the end of the day we both want a good TF3 movie....

we good man.. *thumbs up*

[/QUOTE]

When we get a good TF3 movie, I'll probably be here reading comments about how it was offensive and whatnot as well. comments about childhoods being rapped and people not being able to see the walking junk piles.

I'll probably respond, and yes I will do it as always in a calm and cool manner.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

actually I only address the things I think are worth counter pointing, I gotta admit I don't like seeing untrue points go unchallenged. More over, it's easy.
It seems like the more I respond to you the more you see me as this person that always responds to you...
all I can say to that is that it takes two to tango. .

huh? excuse me, i dont think so.... ..yeah i guess i shouldn't expect you to respond back to me sense i'm quoting you and vice versa....*shrug shoulders* i dont think that's what i was getting at -at all.

i think i was very specific with what i chose to say..i dont think i'm questioning your participation in this thread..even though..according to you- you are addressing "people's view of the movie" now i forgot the exact quote but i'm only going by what you said. You're in here to correct some ppls views....something to that effect is what you said..i'm just in this thread, i'm not here to correct anyone. i respect everyone's opinion with no hard feelings.

Wrong
Batman and Robin was silly(in the vain of Adam West) it wasn't tasteless.
there is a difference.

Now when applied to the context of these movies, statements like "bay will address the tonal sillyness" can't just be interpreted by you as "see even bay said it was tasteless!"

cool? .

yea on your batman and robin thing..i'll just leaving that alone, you're again bring in way too many examples on this topic; is not that complex. again i really dont know how clear it can be said...obviously there was issues with the 2nd film, m.bay hisself said there was..you can interpreted what he meant by that all you want, or you can interpreted as me reading too much into what bay said or was thinking..what ever makes u sleep at night buddy have at it.

Hey you're the one who said controversial, how was I supposed to know you didn't mean it literally. CNN has covered controversial movies in the past. Such as "Black Face," "Fahrenheit 911" and so on. All this time I thought you people meant Michael Bay was making Controversial films.

Hey you're words, I'm just trying to understand.
.

really man...really??? i said "contorversial", now i need to address exactly what tone of controversy i meant for you to understand?? really???

If something is offensive it doesn't matter what kinda movie it's in. You, yourself personally should only be offended if the "joke" is offensive. period.
Are the Robots racist or not, what does it matter that it's based on an 80's cartoon?

Argue all you want that it doesn't fit in the TF lore, but people are saying racist robots! .

look bro, if this is the case, then i suggest you go to that critic's house and argue with him why he felt that robots balls were offensive and the little chinese man in "the hangover" wasn't offensive to him..ok? I never onces said they were racist, i said they were tastless....and it would matter cuz you dont put robot balls in CLEAR view of your audience in a 80s cartoon....or any cartoon for that matter. on less it was meant for mature audiences only...

Many critics said they were offended by the stereo typical robots(this is the controversy I assume you were talking about). They didn't say because this is a kids movie that they were offended, they said, this is racist and wrong!

Well, I simply ask, why here and nowhere else?

who cares what their exact words were..they didnt like the robots, and so did others...why they didnt, doesn't matter....and they are taken out of the movie or at least tone down...bottom line....


ok i'm done now with going back n forth with you..i was trying to be cool and respectful but it's like you wanna keep going to no end with this issue...(and yes we both have the right to respond to each other) but it comes a point where you stop.

i'm stopping..have your views..and to your "you people" comment...for someone trying hard to just address me, you still throw these kind of words out there. "you people" really??? ok

 

[nogap87]

While Bay's TF are rather crap in most aspects, the designs are by far my favourite from all other TF franchises. I love the organic look. They re alien robots first and cars and planes second. They re not cars whose hoods turn into feet and trunks into arms.

Sure, sometimes they go overboard with all the details and **** it all up (mostly the decepticons), but 90% of the Autobots have been great, and Prime, Megatron, and Bumblebee are simply fantastic. Megatron is this beastly mofo that you dont wanna mess with (i almost **** my pants when he was chasing down Sam in TF1) and i'm also digging his Bayish design in the new cartoon. I really dont know wtf is up with his new truck mode and that cloth over his shoulders.

Starscream is kinda awkward especially when he fights, but he was great in the first film. Remember when he just terrorizes the Autobots in the city ("it's Starscream" as in "oh **** we re so ****ed") and chases down Sam with the cube? So badass.

I also like the designs of the new cartoon. They're Bayish but simpler and look like they can handle conventional gunfire.

I have no love for Movie Starscream and Megatron. One is a kite with chicken legs and the other is just a freak (though his new alt mode looks pretty cool).

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Organic looking robots would have been fine if they weren't in constant war. OP kicks a lot of ass in the movies but he looks a little fragile when you compare him to any other Prime from past (or current) franchises. The movie designs has been great for the advancement of Transformer toys but as actual war robots...not so much.

It's no real surprise that humans can kill these Transformers.

I think thats more opinion then fact.

To put it simplely, they arent actual "war robots", they are an alien race robotic organisms that have been forced into war.

And as much as I didnt like the designs, they dont look very fragile to me.

 

[nogap87]

I think thats more opinion then fact.

To put it simplely, they arent actual "war robots", they are an alien race robotic organisms that have been forced into war.

And as much as I didnt like the designs, they dont look very fragile to me.

Robotic organisms who are capable of upgrading their bodies or whatever Megatron keeps doing. Why have gears, springs, and wires exposed when you're A) in a war and B) capable of armoring up your body.

They look fragile compared to most other robots that fight in wars (yea, my opinion).

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Robotic organisms who are capable of upgrading their bodies or whatever Megatron keeps doing. Why have gears, springs, and wires exposed when you're A) in a war and B) capable of armoring up your body.

They look fragile compared to most other robots that fight in wars (yea, my opinion).

The so called "up grades" you speak of were more superficial then anything else.

Megatron and Bumblebee changed "up graded" their alt modes, but their robot modes didnt change all that much.

we saw no evidence of them "armoring up their bodies

 

[Mr. Para-Normal]

To the haters explain to me what was so horrible about transformers 1? The humor wasn't that bad, the main characters were there Robot wise( for the most part) the story was simple but made sense and enjoyable. The action was good. I understand the hate for the second movie but I don't understand it for the first.

The reason humans are in the transformers movies is because they sort of represent the average movie going crowd. It may shock some of you but not everyone grew up with or liked the G1 transformers cartoons. They may not have that bond with Optimus or bumblebee like some of you die hards dr they may not have massive knowledge of the mythos. So having the human element in the films gives the average movie going crowd some characters to relate to. Having a movie with all robots may turn some people away.

 

[Mr. Para-Normal]

Another point is the TF movies were made to be more accessible to the average movie going crowd. So even of the made a straight adaptation from the G1 cartoon story lines hardcore guys would wet themselves but the average movie going audience would be like meh? They wouldn't understand it.

Simply put casual movie going audience brings in more cash than hardcore fanboy movies. Heck a good example would be Watchmen. That was a fanboy/comic fan movie and it flopped. The same would happen if the did a TF movie with a story only diehards would understand.

 

[nogap87]

The so called "up grades" you speak of were more superficial then anything else.

Megatron and Bumblebee changed "up graded" their alt modes, but their robot modes didnt change all that much.

we saw no evidence of them "armoring up their bodies

Didn't know Megatron cared so much about his appearance. I just assumed his tank mode was better than his jet mode.

I consider the Jetfire parts on Prime an upgrade and it looks like he may combine with his trailer in Trans3.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Didn't know Megatron cared so much about his appearance. I just assumed his tank mode was better than his jet mode.

What ever you want to call it , it was a change in alt modes.

I consider the Jetfire parts on Prime an upgrade

Not much different then a foot ball player putting on padding.

And look what it took to accomplish that feet, one guy that to kill himself.

Either way, "upgrading their robot modes" doesnt seem to be an every day thing for them.

and it looks like he may combine with his trailer in Trans3.

We'll see.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Another point is the TF movies were made to be more accessible to the average movie going crowd. So even of the made a straight adaptation from the G1 cartoon story lines hardcore guys would wet themselves but the average movie going audience would be like meh? They wouldn't understand it.

Simply put casual movie going audience brings in more cash than hardcore fanboy movies. Heck a good example would be Watchmen. That was a fanboy/comic fan movie and it flopped. The same would happen if the did a TF movie with a story only diehards would understand.

Watchmen is harder to adapt than G1 Transformers.

Much harder.

All you need for a decent G1 adaptation are G1 designs, G1 characterizations, a memorable plot, and no goofy/potty humor.

There's no reason that wouldn't appeal to a wide audience if the action scenes are impressive.