The Dark Knight Rises OFFICIAL: Batman in New York - Part 5

[The Joker]

Right, but the situation was a twisted mind-**** and could have been made into some demented riddle "Riddle me this: Are criminals or civilians more ruthless? blah blah..."

You could also say it could be a Two Face crime. "Who's going to live and who's going to die? It's 50/50".

You can make what Ra's did in Begins sound like a Scarecrow plot. Having Gotham tear itself apart because of fear gas.

Bane tackling Gotham's economy in TDKR is not something I'd never associate with Bane. When has he ever cared about things like that? Or turning Gotham into factions. It sounds like the plot from The Cult. Deacon Blackfire is more apt to what Bane's doing to Gotham in TDKR.

The ferries was pure Joker inspired by The Killing Joke: http://jokerfans.blogspot.com/2011/03/heath-ledgers-joker-comic-book-to-movie.html

They were just supporting villains though and didn't need to be the major threat.

So who says Riddler cannot be the same?

I agree cerebral villains are Nolan's M.O., but these are superhero action/drama films primarily marketed to the teenage market. They enjoy things that go boom, not elaborate mind games. I've just never gotten the sense that Riddler is a truly threatening villain that could carry his own film, the way the way he's depicted in the comics. Lives have to be at stake, there has to be a real sense of danger, and the way I would think of doing a Nolan Riddler, would be very similar to the way they portrayed the Joker.

I am not sure if you're rusty on your Riddler comics, or are just judging him based on the 1960's TV show. Lets look at another medium everyone should know, the Batman Animated Series. In the three episodes he appeared in, there was more action in each one of them alone than in Bane's episode. Did the writers get his character wrong in any of those three episodes? No.

Riddler's crimes often result in action pieces because his riddles are preludes to crimes he will commit and he challenges Batman to figure it out and stop him. Also check out this thread: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=308088&highlight=riddler

A lot of great ideas in there for when everyone wanted him for TDKR.

I mean I thought this was common knowledge. Riddler is more famous and iconic than the likes of Bane and the Scarecrow.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

You just described 90% of Batman's rogues gallery there lol.

And yet when mentioning the term, Fanboys instantly focus their thoughts on The Joker and The Riddler.

There's lots of differences. Can you see the Riddler doing anything like the evil kind of antics Joker did in TDK (burning money, trying to break Harvey Dent, hanging corpses from windows, terrorizing a copycat Batman on live TV, attacking Cop cars with a bazooka etc), or having any of the same kind of goals Joker had in TDK?

No, they're two different kinds of characters. I'll tell you before Bane was cast, Riddler was the fan favorite for being in the third movie.

Yes, and I hated the attention The Riddler received when the time arrived for a new lead villain: "Yay! Another villain who solely threatens the psyche of Batman and no match for him physically!"

While The Riddler is not an unstable radical and violent anarchist carrying a bazooka, he does carries around the identical aura and delivery The Joker fancies. So while it's apples and oranges, it would be too uncanny for The Riddler to star in a Nolan sequel following The Joker. The general audience wouldn't be able to distinguish the difference between the two.

There's not much Oswald cannot do in Gotham City, and unlike most of the aforementioned villains, Oswald can do it and avoid incarceration.

I admire Oswald's political tactics and antics but, at best, I simply see him as a member of the Falcone family. In context, I've never acknowledged him as a massive threat to Batman.

 

[jmc]

In retrospect the Riddler was never going to be a good follow up villain to the Joker. I always thought the Riddler was the most suited because he could really mind **** an already fragile Batman, as well as being a character suited for Chris Nolan as well. It wasn't until Bane was announced that it dawned on me why Riddler was never going to be a good option: he's just not as threatening. On top of that after watching TDK again recently the Joker really was more of a physiological threat anyway, so the potential for covering similar ground was all too apparent. What Bane brings is the physical threat, something Batman hasn't faced before. So whilst I was once on the Riddler bandwagon (to a degree) the presence of Bane shows just how wrong a character he would have been to use after the Joker.

 

[Yurka]

You could also say it could be a Two Face crime. "Who's going to live and who's going to die? It's 50/50".

You can make what Ra's did in Begins sound like a Scarecrow plot. Having Gotham tear itself apart because of fear gas.

Bane tackling Gotham's economy in TDKR is not something I'd never associate with Bane. When has he ever cared about things like that? Or turning Gotham into factions. It sounds like the plot from The Cult. Deacon Blackfire is more apt to what Bane's doing to Gotham in TDKR.

The ferries was pure Joker inspired by The Killing Joke: http://jokerfans.blogspot.com/2011/03/heath-ledgers-joker-comic-book-to-movie.html


So who says Riddler cannot be the same?

As a supporting character he could work, but after the Joker was the main villain I don't see any way Riddler could have posed a bigger threat.
Bane was always the logical choice for DKR to me, he was the only villain that could conceivably challenge Batman in a way he hadn't been tested yet, and increase the scale and threat after the Joker. I've said that since shortly after DK was released and I commented on the Riddler speculation endlessly.

I am not sure if you've not read any Riddler comics, or are just judging him based on the 1960's TV show. Lets look at another medium everyone should know, the Batman Animated Series. In the three episodes he appeared in, there was more action in each one of them alone than in Bane's episode. Did the writers get his character wrong in any of those three episodes? No.

You're missing my point. To be a compelling and effective cinematic story (especially for a teen-marketed film) it has to engage the audience, you have to make them care about the situation and show some serious threat. For Riddler to use riddles as well as threaten people's safety would seem very similar to some of Joker's threats. It's not about what he does in the comics or animated episodes, it's about what can be marketed and sold effectively to an audience. The scale has to increase, the threat has to be greater.

Riddler's crimes often result in action pieces because his riddles are preludes to crimes he will commit and he challenges Batman to figure it out and stop him. Also check out this thread: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=308088&highlight=riddler

A lot of great ideas in there for when everyone wanted him for TDKR.

See above.

I mean I thought this was common knowledge. Riddler is more famous and iconic than the likes of Bane and the Scarecrow.

But that means nothing when trying to create a more impressive and fresher film.

 

[Octoberist]

Bane!

 

[Caped Crusader]

The ferries was pure Joker inspired by The Killing Joke: http://jokerfans.blogspot.com/2011/03/heath-ledgers-joker-comic-book-to-movie.html



So who says Riddler cannot be the same?



I am not sure if you're rusty on your Riddler comics, or are just judging him based on the 1960's TV show. Lets look at another medium everyone should know, the Batman Animated Series. In the three episodes he appeared in, there was more action in each one of them alone than in Bane's episode. Did the writers get his character wrong in any of those three episodes? No.

Riddler's crimes often result in action pieces because his riddles are preludes to crimes he will commit and he challenges Batman to figure it out and stop him. Also check out this thread: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=308088&highlight=riddler

A lot of great ideas in there for when everyone wanted him for TDKR.

I mean I thought this was common knowledge. Riddler is more famous and iconic than the likes of Bane and the Scarecrow.

Thanks for posting that blog post, awesome read! And btw, you couldn't be more spot on about Riddler. Still would love to see what Nolan could of done with him. I can't believe some Batman fans on here quickly forgot what kind of villain he was especially in BTAS which were some of the best episodes.

 

[infamous]

https://***********/hitrecordjoe/status/136377391982448641

Switched up his hat

 

[batbax]

Amazing how one pretty dumb comment by someone three pages back can just blow up into a horrible riddler/penguin debate in the ny thread. Lol. Really can't see penguin ever working as s serious villain after the joker. And the riddler, well really what would the riddler exactly bring to the table for a 3rd and final film that the joker didn't do about 100 times better? Eh, I never got why people all wanted riddler for this one. And now that I kind of see how this ones shaping up, I'm really glad they didn't.

 

[The Batman]

.....Riddler and Penguin would sure as hell get more people hyped for this movie than most batman villains.

Its funny how certain fans of other characters want their favorite villains to have the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that said character hasnt been a legitmitate threat in years, yet will down other villains for practically the same reason. riddler and penguin are jokes, but for some reason, guys like black mask and deacon blackfire, for example, are the bees knees?

 

[infamous]

Ocuppy Wall Street were exterminated from zuccotti park and now are at Foley Square... an area dedicated to the fallen Gotham Police man who got ran down by the tumbler?

 

[The_Raganork]

Ocuppy Wall Street were exterminated from zuccotti park and now are at Foley Square... an area dedicated to the fallen Gotham Police man who got ran down by the tumbler?

they did a Viral there in "Thomas Payne Park"

everyone kept saying it was going to be referred to as "Thomas Wayne Park"

Never happened, scavenger hunt was fun though...a little too hot and went too long

 

[Octoberist]

.....Riddler and Penguin would sure as hell get more people hyped for this movie than most batman villains.

Its funny how certain fans of other characters want their favorite villains to have the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that said character hasnt been a legitmitate threat in years, yet will down other villains for practically the same reason. riddler and penguin are jokes, but for some reason, guys like black mask and deacon blackfire, for example, are the bees knees?

Didnt Lungrocket get a tatoo if Deacon Blackfire on his butt?

 

[The_Raganork]

Art imitating Life?

hundreds of protesters are converging on city hall...

 

[AnneFan]

Art imitating Life?

hundreds of protesters are converging on city hall...

 

[The_Raganork]

if they start Chanting "Deshi Bashara" I'll have to retune my opinion on WB's marketing practices.

 

[venus_ice]

Hahaha where's Bane?

 

[Caped Crusader]

.....Riddler and Penguin would sure as hell get more people hyped for this movie than most batman villains.

Its funny how certain fans of other characters want their favorite villains to have the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that said character hasnt been a legitmitate threat in years, yet will down other villains for practically the same reason. riddler and penguin are jokes, but for some reason, guys like black mask and deacon blackfire, for example, are the bees knees?

I think way too many people think of Burton's Penguin & Joel's Riddler when those two villains come to mind. Not many on here read the comics/graphic novels it seems.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It's important to recignize that Nolan doesn't choose a villain on its own terms but how it would complement Bruce's journey. If Bruce needs to be broken down and subsequently rise Bane is the perfect villain.

 

[Caped Crusader]

There's some of us on here that still believe that Riddler would of been just as perfect, he could of kept breaking down Bruce Wayne/Batman mentally. That being said I'm still happy with the choice of Bane but let's not discredit the other villains in the Batman mythology.

 

[dark_b]

There's some of us on here that still believe that Riddler would of been just as perfect, he could of kept breaking down Bruce Wayne/Batman mentally. That being said I'm still happy with the choice of Bane but let's not discredit the other villains in the Batman mythology.

you already changed Bruce and Gotham's story. not that theere is anythign wrong with that. but the question is if the same story could be told with any other villain?

IMO not possible.

 

[kvz5]

It's important to recignize that Nolan doesn't choose a villain on its own terms but how it would complement Bruce's journey. If Bruce needs to be broken down and subsequently rise Bane is the perfect villain.

I agree. I think specially for TDKR, Nolan thought of the story that he wants to tell first (in this case the end of Bruce's story) and he then picked the villain that will help serve that purpose.

 

[Caped Crusader]

you already changed Bruce and Gotham's story. not that theere is anythign wrong with that. but the question is if the same story could be told with any other villain?

IMO not possible.

The possibilities could of been endless IMO with having the Riddler, Riddler knowing all about Dent's murders & so on.

 

[elsewhere]

The possibilities could of been endless IMO with having the Riddler, Riddler knowing all about Dent's murders & so on.

Isn't that essentially just a rehash of The Joker?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Isn't that essentially just a rehash of The Joker?

No...

 

[batbax]

No ones pitting down the roddler or penguin. I just think penguin can't carry a movie himself after the joker and riddler would have to be written in a way that makes him different from most comics on order to make him appear not as the jv version of joker. I think the route they ate taking could not have been pulled off with riddler. I think he'd have been a nice side villain tho.