Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 15

[Marvolo]

Surely even the tinniest of ears for dialogue would detect, subliminally, that the second line is far more poetic and pregnant with drama than the first. The concept of "destroying the world of men" is so baroque in its scope and the language with which it is introduced that it perfectly balances the relatively mundane description of the army being "bred". It is an admirably concise way of expanding the dramatic threat posed by the belligerent who has already been introduced.

"These bats are bred for war" is, conversely, reductive because it simply reflects on a context that is already evident. By association with the line in LOTR, it also acts to create a slightly comic effect by its pithy application to "bats", which are not an exotic concept in themselves. You might say "this rice is grown for war".

If the line is really necessary at all (and it disturbs me that it was selected for the trailer), then it could be much better written. For instance;

"These beasts were bred for war alone".

This implies that the bats are something more than the mundane and implies that they represent a threat greater than we might otherwise perceive; it also intensifies the sense that the designs of the enemy have become dangerously concerted and single-minded.



I agree with you. I am sad to say that I believe Saruman should have been recast, and I say that as a huge fan of Christopher Lee. Even sat chatting in an armchair in the first part, he seemed a much frailer figure than the wizard that defeated Gandalf in FOTR.

I imagine that a lot of very ugly CGI will be used to sell his duel with Sauron (and they're calling him SauronSauron?).

I think Jackson probably would have recast Saruman if he didn't have so much respect for Lee. Lee told Jackson that there was no way he could do it and that he was too old and weak to go to New Zealand but Jackson wouldn't hear of it and accommodated Lee's needs. I can't really blame him tho. Lee loves Tolkien's Middle Earth and probably can recite the Silmarillion by heart. He's earned his place in these films and taking that role away from him, even with his permission, just isn't something anyone really wants to do. Recasting was the logical thing to do and I fully agree with that, but putting myself in Jackson's shoes...there's just no way I could have done it.

They are just bats in the book, though.

Well they are large bats but yeah you're right they aren't made out to be specifically bred for war. Like the spiders of Mirkwood, the bats are just spawns of the darkness and corruption that plagues parts of Middle Earth. These corruptions come to the call of other corruptions. In this case the Master of all Corruption in Middle Earth, Sauron.

And I feel like I'm probably late to this, but Girion Lord of Dale was played by Luke Evans. I completely missed that fact.

 

[Victarion]

"You started this. Forgive me if I finish it."

Love it.

 

[Silvermoon]

Has this banner been posted yet? Thorin & his nephews:

 

[green]

It's definitely the 9, also looks like the statue in the center is holding a Palantir.

Spoiler

 

[green]

Surely even the tinniest of ears for dialogue would detect, subliminally, that the second line is far more poetic and pregnant with drama than the first. The concept of "destroying the world of men" is so baroque in its scope and the language with which it is introduced that it perfectly balances the relatively mundane description of the army being "bred". It is an admirably concise way of expanding the dramatic threat posed by the belligerent who has already been introduced.

"These bats are bred for war" is, conversely, reductive because it simply reflects on a context that is already evident. By association with the line in LOTR, it also acts to create a slightly comic effect by its pithy application to "bats", which are not an exotic concept in themselves. You might say "this rice is grown for war".

If the line is really necessary at all (and it disturbs me that it was selected for the trailer), then it could be much better written. For instance;

"These beasts were bred for war alone".

This implies that the bats are something more than the mundane and implies that they represent a threat greater than we might otherwise perceive; it also intensifies the sense that the designs of the enemy have become dangerously concerted and single-minded.

Ive never read a more eloquent bashing of a throw away line.
Kudos to you good Sir.

 

[regwec]

Thanks!

Can anyone tell me why one of the Nine is an Elf, and another appears to be some kind of Warhammer figurine complete with comedy horns and improbably large mace?

 

[green]

Differentiation

 

[Marvolo]

Has this banner been posted yet? Thorin & his nephews:

Thanks!

Can anyone tell me why one of the Nine is an Elf, and another appears to be some kind of Warhammer figurine complete with comedy horns and improbably large mace?

Idk why but the one with the horns actually kinda creeps me out.

 

[Victarion]

The one with the horns didn't get the memo, Del Toro isn't directing these anymore.

 

[Enriquespy]

Thanks!
and another appears to be some kind of Warhammer figurine complete with comedy horns and improbably large mace?

He is stealing stuff from the sons of Odin.

No wait... that's a mace, not a hammer!


My bad.

 

[ares834]

It's definitely the 9, also looks like the statue in the center is holding a Palantir.

Spoiler

I pray they aren't. They don't resemble how they looked in LotR in the slightest. I mean one is fat, has a giant mace, and wears a jester hat.

 

[John Locke]

If it is the Nine then the one with the horns is the Witch King.

 

[regwec]

The Witchking wears a silver crown, not a dungeons 'n' dragons Viking helmet.

 

[green]

I really don't know why there would be complaints of the large mace?

The Witch King in ROTK had a HUGE Flail!
I actually think The Witch King is the one partially blocked by the statue straight ahead.

 

[regwec]

He acquired that after being smashed to bits at the fords of Rivendell.

 

[Iceman]

Is this it for Tolkien films once this comes out?

 

[sueb1863]

Has this banner been posted yet? Thorin & his nephews:

Looks great, but poor Fili - shoved in the background almost as an afterthought while Kili and Thorin take up most of the image. All you can see of him is his head. I wonder if they left him out at first and then Dean O'Gorman's agent demanded he be included? It almost looks like he wasn't originally in the design.

 

[Marvolo]

Is this it for Tolkien films once this comes out?

Yep. WB and Jackson have no more rights to any more Tolkien material. And the Tolkien estate seems very unlikely to sell the rights to anything else. This very well could be the last Middle Earth film we will see in our lifetimes.

 

[Octoberist]

Looks great, but poor Fili - shoved in the background almost as an afterthought while Kili and Thorin take up most of the image. All you can see of him is his head. I wonder if they left him out at first and then Dean O'Gorman's agent demanded he be included? It almost looks like he wasn't originally in the design.

Fili has been screwed over throughout the Hobbit, so I'm not shocked. I don't know if it's because Dean was a very last replacement for Robert Kazinsky, or what. I still don't understand why Robert was replaced in the first place. (It was a little awkward to see Robert in the appendices for the first Hobbit.) It was noted it was a family emergency, but I wonder if it's just a spin. Either way, Robert's in Warcraft and Pac Rim so he's not doing so bad.

 

[CGHulk]

Here's the trailer in higher quality.
http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/...E_BATTLE_OF_THE_FIVE_ARMIES_TRL_2-1080-rv.mov

 

[Iceman]

Yep. WB and Jackson have no more rights to any more Tolkien material. And the Tolkien estate seems very unlikely to sell the rights to anything else. This very well could be the last Middle Earth film we will see in our lifetimes.

Oh shame. Do they make money out of the rights in other ways? And they won't sell because they aren't happy with the films or some other reason?

 

[regwec]

They're very protective of the original stories, and don't want them to be sullied by poor adaptations. JRR himself seems to have felt the same way, as evidenced by his letters, which also indicate that the film rights would not have been sold at all unless he needed the money. The Tolkien estate, nowadays, is not in the position of needing the money, and I doubt that the sound and fury of these Hobbit adaptations has liberalised their view of the merit in movie adaptations.

I find it very sad. The fact that the licence to produce films based on JRR Tolkien's fiction is so hard won underlines the status of any studio who holds it as a trustee of the fiction itself, with a duty not to bring it into ridicule. In my opinion, PJ has done just that.

 

[Iceman]

Ah I can understand their position now then. And I kind of agree, the responsibility is larger than just making enough money to satisfy the studio.

 

[Micromind]

Yep. WB and Jackson have no more rights to any more Tolkien material. And the Tolkien estate seems very unlikely to sell the rights to anything else. This very well could be the last Middle Earth film we will see in our lifetimes.

Some people think that while Tolkein Estate may not sell rights to WB but they could sell them to some other Studio, most fans (on One Ring.net) want Disney to acquire the rights and make movies.

Looks like everyone is hopping on to the Disney bandwagon.

 

[Abudefduf]

That'd be pretty ironic, considering how much Tolkien despised Disney. I doubt it'll ever happen.