Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - Part 16

[Quasimod0]

Here's a couple of new clips. I haven't watched them (and won't), but I figured you guys may want to.
[YT]NmgFVlKkhA0[/YT]
[YT]H4Nz6XkD36E[/YT]

 

[Venomfan]

no matter what, the soundtrack should be great

 

[ares834]

I was referring to the film and whats established in it. Not the book. Its established in the film that "Sauron has regained much of his former strength. He cannot yet take physical form, but his spirit has lost none of its potency." So it would have been a plot hole for him to show up in any physical form in ROTK.

Why? That does not imply that he can't take physical form without the ring but rather that he can't yet. In fact, IIRC, during one of the documentaries they actually point to that line as build up for the encounter.

It would have been a terrible idea. Firstly, PJ would have almost certainly have given Sauron the same form that he had in the prologue, despite it explicitly being said that losing the ring extinguished that form altogether.

Huh? Where is this stated? Sure he is left with nine fingers, but other than that I've heard nothing about how he was unable to take the same form as he did at the Siege.

 

[green]

Here's a couple of new clips. I haven't watched them (and won't), but I figured you guys may want to.
[YT]NmgFVlKkhA0[/YT]

I shouldn't have watched this one but couldn't help myself.
Cant wait for this scene.

 

[hafizbat]

Beautiful white Sauron brings his own mythical problems, because he was supposed to be unable to take a "fair form" after the fall of Numenor.

So if taking the fair, beautiful form and the dark, armoured from from the prologue are incorrect, what would be the proper physical manifestation? Serious question, I'm not as well-versed in middle-earth lore as I'd like to be.

Wouldn't this manifestation actually be accurate, given Sauron's devotion to Morgoth?

 

[Boom]

So if taking the fair, beautiful form and the dark, armoured from from the prologue are incorrect, what would be the proper physical manifestation? Serious question, I'm not as well-versed in middle-earth lore as I'd like to be.

Tolkien doesn't get too descriptive with Sauron. Based on his letters, we can gather the following:

1) Sauron took the shape of a very tall man (but not gigantic).
2) His face was terrible - twisted with malice and a complete corruption of his angelic form.
3) Sauron emitted great heat from his body (he burned Gil-Galad to death).
4) He had burning, cat-like eyes.
5) His skin was black.

It just sounds like Sauron wasn't as heavily armored as he is in the film. Perhaps he wore an open-faced helm, and did not wear gloves. Tolkien's own illustration suggests that maybe his arms were bare.

 

[Kane52630]

Tolkien also said Sauron smelt of elderberries.

 

[hafizbat]

Interesting. Thanks, Boom.

I watched and loved the original trilogy when I was younger, and while the new Hobbit movies aren't doing it for me, they are making me want to learn the actual Middle-Earth lore. It's so rich and I realize now that the original LoTR movies are just a small fraction of that world. So in a roundabout way, I suppose I should be grateful these hobbit movies were made.

Some of my favorite parts of the LOTR trilogy were the opening prologues that showed the history of that world, with the making the of rings, Elendil, Isildur, etc.

 

[Silvermoon]

Here's a couple of new clips. I haven't watched them (and won't), but I figured you guys may want to.
[YT]NmgFVlKkhA0[/YT]
[YT]H4Nz6XkD36E[/YT]

Awesome

 

[Boom]

Interesting. Thanks, Boom.

I watched and loved the original trilogy when I was younger, and while the new Hobbit movies aren't doing it for me, they are making me want to learn the actual Middle-Earth lore. It's so rich and I realize now that the original LoTR movies are just a small fraction of that world. So in a roundabout way, I suppose I should be grateful these hobbit movies were made.

Some of my favorite parts of the LOTR trilogy were the opening prologues that showed the history of that world, with the making the of rings, Elendil, Isildur, etc.

On its own merits, I liked the design of Sauron's armor in FoTR. It's not what I would have preferred for the character, but it's still a very striking piece of armory.

He's a difficult character to crack. He's the main antagonist of a very extensive trilogy, yet he is always working from the shadows - never to be seen. The fact that Tolkien never describes him in any detail only adds to the ambiguity that surrounds the character. All we really know is he was truly terrible to behold.

 

[regwec]

I also liked Sauron's armour, but I felt that it and his stature were both really a representation of Morgoth.

I envision Sauron after the fall of Numenor being as Milton described fallen angels; as having a darkened and twisted angelic form. After the death of Morgoth, Sauron became a seducer, and his later punishment was to be robbed of his seductiveness. At this point (and as he appeared in the fight with Elendil and Isildur) I can imagine him appearing somewhat like Doctor Who's "Weeping Angels":

Although, of course, armed for battle.

After he was destroyed in that form, I imagine him as a decayed, malevolent and bent figure. Perhaps like an evil King Lear. But that's just my vision of him; apart from his being a physical and presumably humanoid figure with nine fingers, we don't know.

 

[Drz]

Nope. He is completely incapable of taking on a fair shape, illusion or not.

I didn't say he took a fair shape, that's not what happens since his true form is the Dark Lord, but he could cast a spell that people perceive him as something beautiful, for a moment.

It doesn't alter his shape, but it alters the perception of the viewers.

 

[terry78]

This place just got inexplicably nerdier than normal, but at least it's a more interesting topic than the original thread's purpose.

 

[regwec]

@Drz -

I think that would undo the nature of the curse that was put on him, though, as that was intended to prevent him from seducing other beings.

@terry-

A Regwec post always nerds things up, and there are a lot here.

 

[Persona]

the reviews so far (especially McWeeny's and Variety's) are getting me juiced. even the middling reviews seem to acknowledge that it's the best of the three, so considering i liked the first two...

i'm also pumped about the sub-2 1/2 hour runtime. after the awkward, lurching gaits of the first two fat cat installments, this last act needed to build some momentum and end with a bang. and several of the reviews affirm that it does just that.

 

[Boom]

I didn't say he took a fair shape, that's not what happens since his true form is the Dark Lord, but he could cast a spell that people perceive him as something beautiful, for a moment.

It doesn't alter his shape, but it alters the perception of the viewers.

And he lost that power to deceive/seduce people following his betrayal. The Valar stripped it from him.

 

[Drizzle]

I'm excited to see Elrond properly kick some ass in this, since we didn't really get to see much of it in the Fellowship of the Ring prologue.

 

[Marvolo]

Peter Jackson: Tolkien Estate Rights Prevent More Middle-Earth Films

At Monday’s world premiere of The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies in London, Ian McKellen fueled rumors that Peter Jackson would be returning to Middle-earth, saying that he didn't “believe necessarily that this is the end of the journey.”

But at a press conference Tuesday, the director swiftly put down any hopes that he would be delving further between the lines of J.R.R. Tolkien’s works.

"It’s a legal thing. The Tolkien estate owns the writings of Professor Tolkien – The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings were sold by Professor Tolkien the late 60s … the film rights," he said. But they are the only two works of his that been sold. So without the cooperation of the Tolkien estate there can’t be more films."

Jackson did say that fans wanting more could look forward to his extended edition DVD of the The Battle of the Five Armies, which he would be heading back to New Zealand to work on in the new year.

"I’ll be putting that together for about four or five months, which will be fun," he said, later describing how the release would enable people to finally watch the entire extended editions of The Hobbit and Lord of the Ring trilogies back-to-back. “It’s 24 hours of joy,” he laughed.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/peter-jackson-tolkien-estate-rights-753368

Chris, wont always be head of the estate and he is in his 80s I think so in 10 years or a little after that some other film rights may be up for sale. Until then folks, this is it.

 

[regwec]

If it's a trust, then Christopher can't be the only trustee, anyway.

The copyright itself will end near the middle of this century, so it's always the case that these stories will be further adapted.

 

[Marvolo]

I envision Sauron after the fall of Numenor being as Milton described fallen angels; as having a darkened and twisted angelic form. After the death of Morgoth, Sauron became a seducer, and his later punishment was to be robbed of his seductiveness. At this point (and as he appeared in the fight with Elendil and Isildur) I can imagine him appearing somewhat like Doctor Who's "Weeping Angels":

Although, of course, armed for battle.

After he was destroyed in that form, I imagine him as a decayed, malevolent and bent figure. Perhaps like an evil King Lear. But that's just my vision of him; apart from his being a physical and presumably humanoid figure with nine fingers, we don't know.

That would have been awesomely creepy.

I wonder if Jackson were doing LOTR after the Hobbit whether he would show Sauron in his tower directing his generals like he has done with Azog and Sauron in the Hobbit trilogy? Ive kind of gotten the suspicion that maybe Jackson has some regrets that he never showed Sauron after the prologue so he's tried to make up for it in this trilogy. Even how he handles the orcs in this trilogy is different. In LOTR they spoke english, but in this trilogy they speak their native tongue. I wish Jackson would have done that in LOTR. CGI aside I prefer how the orcs have been handled in this trilogy.

 

[regwec]

I thought different groups of Orcs used the common speech (always "translated" in the books to modern English) to understand each other, anyway? I thought of the Black Speech being specifically the language of Mordor, though maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Marvolo]

I thought different groups of Orcs used the common speech (always "translated" in the books to modern English) to understand each other, anyway? I thought of the Black Speech being specifically the language of Mordor, though maybe I'm wrong.

You may be right. Ive never actually looks into the matter.

If it's a trust, then Christopher can't be the only trustee, anyway.

The copyright itself will end near the middle of this century, so it's always the case that these stories will be further adapted.

And the estate has some leverage. WB would probably sell their firstborns to get more Middle Earth film rights. If the estate approaches them with an offer they might could set terms about how faithful the films need to be and require the studio to involve the estate in the scripting process. Idk if WB would go for that, but plenty of authors collaborate with projects. Tolkien is gone, but people in his estate know his works well, and they could help with an adaption. Whatever things about Hobbit and LOTR upset the estate need not happen again if they go at this the right way. I really hope someone in the estate realizes this at some point and reaches out to a studio with the goal of working together.

 

[Marvolo]

Peter Jackson has revealed that the extended edition of BTFA will have around 30 minutes of additional footage!

http://collider.com/the-hobbit-3-extended-cut-details/

So a six film marathon of the Extended Editions will run a healthy 1220 minutes. Over 20 hours. Good luck to anyone who can pull that off.

 

[Vartha]

have you guys seen this?
http://www.avclub.com/article/ian-m...lMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

 

[Marvolo]

have you guys seen this?
http://www.avclub.com/article/ian-m...lMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default

Yeah and Jackson shot it down quickly:

Peter Jackson: Tolkien Estate Rights Prevent More Middle-Earth Films

At Monday’s world premiere of The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies in London, Ian McKellen fueled rumors that Peter Jackson would be returning to Middle-earth, saying that he didn't “believe necessarily that this is the end of the journey.”

But at a press conference Tuesday, the director swiftly put down any hopes that he would be delving further between the lines of J.R.R. Tolkien’s works.

"It’s a legal thing. The Tolkien estate owns the writings of Professor Tolkien – The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings were sold by Professor Tolkien the late 60s … the film rights," he said. But they are the only two works of his that been sold. So without the cooperation of the Tolkien estate there can’t be more films."

Jackson did say that fans wanting more could look forward to his extended edition DVD of the The Battle of the Five Armies, which he would be heading back to New Zealand to work on in the new year.

"I’ll be putting that together for about four or five months, which will be fun," he said, later describing how the release would enable people to finally watch the entire extended editions of The Hobbit and Lord of the Ring trilogies back-to-back. “It’s 24 hours of joy,” he laughed.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/peter-jackson-tolkien-estate-rights-753368

One day the rights might be sold, but we arent likely to see another middle-earth film anytime soon. I doubt Ian knows much about the current rights issues.