Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - Part 16

[Marvolo]

So Marvolo, is this where you admit the early review was not fake?

I wasn't aware I needed to make a formal public acknowledgement. Ive been discussing the Dain stuff in here which means I've seen that the info in that early review was real. Well what I've read of it is real, and I assume the rest is the same as what's now coming out in official reviews. I never did read the whole thing. I got to the Dain bit and stopped. Either it was real in which case I didn't want to know too much before seeing the film or it was fake and just a waste of time to read it. I admit the Dain bit read like an attempt to piss off purists and I wish that's all it had been. Sadly that isn't the case. But I'm not sorry nor do I feel I was wrong for being skeptical about that early information which came out before the world premiere.

IGN have posted their review. They gave it a 7.5/10. And they mention Dain:

Trouble is, it all gets a little CGI-heavy, with the film at times looking less like live-action and more like animation. This issue is most notable during the arrival of Dwarf General Dwain Underfoot – played with characteristic gusto by Billy Connolly. Sporting a ginger Mohawk and delivering Glasweigan kisses as he rides into battle atop a huge boar, he’s a larger-than-life character, but fights in such a blur of superhuman speed that it’s hard to believe he’s flesh and blood.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/01/the-hobbit-the-battle-of-the-five-armies-review

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I wasn't aware I needed to make a formal public acknowledgement. Ive been discussing the Dain stuff in here which means I've seen that the info in that early review was real. Well what I've read of it is real, and I assume the rest is the same as what's now coming out in official reviews. I never did read the whole thing. I got to the Dain bit and stopped. Either it was real in which case I didn't want to know too much before seeing the film or it was fake and just a waste of time to read it. I admit the Dain bit read like an attempt to piss off purists and I wish that's all it had been. Sadly that isn't the case. But I'm not sorry nor do I feel I was wrong for being skeptical about that early information which came out before the world premiere.

IGN have posted their review. They gave it a 7.5/10. And they mention Dain:



http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/01/the-hobbit-the-battle-of-the-five-armies-review

The post was a bit of fun. The only problem I had with your skepticism is there was no reason to doubt the source. They have prove themselves in the past and thus had no reason to lie.

 

[Silvermoon]

Another clip, Thranduil and Gandalf "The dwarves are out of time"

 

[Vartha]

Nice, MAN I can't wait to see this!!!

 

[Victarion]

Who was that dwarf we saw Gandalf fighting at Dol Guldur in the earlier trailers? Does this material show up in the Desolation of Smaug EE?

 

[redhawk23]

See, I just don't understand Tolkien Estate doesn't want to make money and release the materials.
I mean they can even have someone over see the production to make sure the properties stay true to the Stories as much as possible

Because at least for the people currently in control of the estate, they'd rather not have films and pinball machines drawing attention away from the original works themselves and in particular other areas of Tolkien's writing and legacy that they attempt to promote.

Not everything has to be exploited ad nauseum.

 

[Victarion]

Aren't some of the stories in The Silmarillion really dark and gritty? Play that up while Game of Thrones is still pop culture, and throw in some callbacks to the Rings Trilogy in the early trailers for your Silmarillion films.

 

[Silvermoon]

Who was that dwarf we saw Gandalf fighting at Dol Guldur in the earlier trailers? Does this material show up in the Desolation of Smaug EE?

Spoiler

It's Thrain. And yes, the material shows up in the Extended Edition of Desolation of Smaug (pretty much completely replacing the sequence from the theatrical version)

 

[Venomfan]

Because at least for the people currently in control of the estate, they'd rather not have films and pinball machines drawing attention away from the original works themselves and in particular other areas of Tolkien's writing and legacy that they attempt to promote.

Not everything has to be exploited ad nauseum.

what were the sales of LOTR and the Hobbit like in the years leading up the films release vs after? Anyone know? Films/Series undoubtedly will increase book sales. I know I never would have read any Tolkien if it wasn't for the films, despite my dad saying they were awesome. The films promote the original works

 

[regwec]

Yes, but for two things. Firstly, Christopher Tolkien (and, perhaps, much of the rest of the family) don't seem to think that money is as important as protecting the literature itself. Secondly, and developing that point, perceptions of an original text can be compromised if readers come to them having first encountered an adaptation. The worst case scenario is that the text comes to be defined by the adaptation, particularly when that adaptation isn't very good.

I can hardly speak for them, but I sense that many of the Tolkiens would rather have 100 people discover the books by themselves, read them and love them; than have 10,000 people watch an abhorrent movie adaptation, go on to buy 1,000 "book versions" with the movie poster reproduced on the cover, and leave those books to collect dust.

 

[sueb1863]

Yeah, I wonder how many movie fans went to buy 'The Hobbit', only to stop reading it once they realized it wasn't much like the movies and Legolas isn't even in it.

 

[jmc]

what were the sales of LOTR and the Hobbit like in the years leading up the films release vs after? Anyone know? Films/Series undoubtedly will increase book sales. I know I never would have read any Tolkien if it wasn't for the films, despite my dad saying they were awesome. The films promote the original works

LOTR at least has been one of the most consistently sold books since it was first published. It would have been given a spike around the time the films came out no doubt, how much of a boost is hard to know.

 

[Silvermoon]

don't know if any of these have been posted, but these stills have been popping on various feeds of mine today.

Spoiler tag for length

Spoiler

 

[Tacit Ronin]

There is something terrifying in the cocktail of the overly digitized texture and the soft filters. It looks like a sewer.

 

[Quasimod0]

I don't like the look of it in stills. However, once I start watching the movie I actually like it.

 

[Vartha]

Because at least for the people currently in control of the estate, they'd rather not have films and pinball machines drawing attention away from the original works themselves and in particular other areas of Tolkien's writing and legacy that they attempt to promote.

Not everything has to be exploited ad nauseum.

what were the sales of LOTR and the Hobbit like in the years leading up the films release vs after? Anyone know? Films/Series undoubtedly will increase book sales. I know I never would have read any Tolkien if it wasn't for the films, despite my dad saying they were awesome. The films promote the original works

Yeah that's what I was saying too tho VF. I don't think the merchandise would hurt all that much redhawk. I mean think of the amount of fans if there were all sorts of the same things back when the books first came out?
I mean has anyone heard from Tolkien's kids about that sort of thing? Like maybe wanting a doll or one of those metal army men they had back then modeled after the story characters? After all the Hobbit was for HIS kid's.

 

[Super Kal]

ive said this before, but i will gladly say it again... it was solely because of these movies that i got the books.

and i'm so happy i got the books

 

[regwec]

That makes you one of the good ones.

Tell me, though: in your visual imagination, what causes the storm on Caradhras? What colour is Legolas' hair? What colour do Orcs tend to be?

 

[Marvolo]

Because at least for the people currently in control of the estate, they'd rather not have films and pinball machines drawing attention away from the original works themselves and in particular other areas of Tolkien's writing and legacy that they attempt to promote.

Not everything has to be exploited ad nauseum.

Pinball machines dont draw attention away from Tolkien's works. Trust me, no one in the market for a LOTR pinball machine is going to go out and buy the books just because a LOTR pinball machine isn't on the market. They will just go get another kind of pinball machine. No one has ever thought "Well I cant find a LOTR pinball machine but a book is the next best thing" No, another available pinball machine is the next best thing. Pinball machines are two separate items and have two separate appeals and purposes. One is for drunken parties with your friends and one is for alone time.

Nor do the films somehow take away from book sales or the attention the books get. They only add to them. People who dont like to read arent suddenly going to pick up a book just because the movie adaptions arent available. You know what they say "Ill wait for the movie."


Also every time one of these films comes out it causes retailers to put a massive spotlight on the books and in turn the books put a spotlight on the films. Its a mutually beneficial relationship. Always has been always will be no matter how much some on the Tolkien estate want to deny it.

 

[regwec]

You seem to entirely miss the broader point about artistic integrity. The notion that all publicity is good only applies in a very narrow, philistine, commercial sense.

 

[Marvolo]

You seem to entirely miss the broader point about artistic integrity. The notion that all publicity is good only applies in a very narrow, philistine, commercial sense.

Cause I dont consider pinball machines from a pinball manufacturer or a movie from a studio to be damaging to the artistic integrity of a dead man who proved himself 40 years ago and who is imo at this point beyond reproach.

I also know that the people in the market for pinball machines and games and most people in the market for a good time at the movies dont see this stuff as damages to Tolkien's integrity because most people dont think about that kind of stuff. There thought process begins and ends with "Did I enjoy it? Yes, I did. Ok, back to life and bills."

The Tolkien estate may think Tolkien's image and integrity is one pinball machine away from being gutter trash, but I happen to think its a bit stronger and much more resilient than that.

 

[regwec]

I don't think they're worried about the integrity of the man, but of his work. In the age of the ten second attention span, movies will inevitably enjoy a higher profile than the written word. Crap films and tacky merchandise can and do tarnish perceptions of the literature from which the ideas have sprung.

 

[jmc]

Cause I dont consider pinball machines from a pinball manufacturer or a movie from a studio to be damaging to the artistic integrity of a dead man who proved himself 40 years ago and who is imo at this point beyond reproach.

I also know that the people in the market for pinball machines and games and most people in the market for a good time at the movies dont see this stuff as damages to Tolkien's integrity because most people dont think about that kind of stuff. There thought process begins and ends with "Did I enjoy it? Yes, I did. Ok, back to life and bills."

The Tolkien estate may think Tolkien's image and integrity is one pinball machine away from being gutter trash, but I happen to think its a bit stronger and much more resilient than that.

What matters is what they want not what you or I want. You can make all the arguments in the world about what does and doesn't damage the integrity of the artists work but at the end of the day it's entirely subjective. Sometimes you've just got to accept the umpire's decision. Tolkien's other works will be off limits for the foreseeable future.

 

[Marvolo]

I don't think they're worried about the integrity of the man, but of his work. In the age of the ten second attention span, movies will inevitably enjoy a higher profile than the written word. Crap films and tacky merchandise can and do tarnish the literature from which the ideas have sprung.

And that wont change by denying people merchandise.

These films and that time I played a game of LOTR pinball and my PS4 copy of Shadows of Mordor has in no way tarnished the books for me nor anyone else with common sense.The words on the pages and the extensive notes and letters of Tolkien's life are still unchanged and readily available.

If stuffy academics and some old farts like Chris Tolkien want to worry and think that this stuff hurts Tolkien's legacy then they can. Meanwhile back in reality my copies of Tolkien's works are the same as theyve always been and I own those and read Tolkien thanks to the existence of the films and many more people owe their love of Tolkien to the films. And we spread Tolkien's works and share our love of his works the same way as any other fan of his works.

 

[jmc]

Thing is Marvolo we're not entitled to Tolkien's works in any other medium outside of it's original one. All you say is true, a lot of people do owe their love of Tolkien from the films, but there's equally if not more people who came to Tolkien long before the films were made. The book was popular for the best part of 40 years, and if the films hadn't been made it would still be one of the best selling books going around. Frankly, the Tolkien Estate didn't need the films in the first place.