Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 8

[Quasimod0]

It is a long, bloated film, that is also incomplete. I am going to forget the ridiculous, exhausting and repetitive last part of the film. I am just going to talk about the stuff before they get to Mount Doom.

Everything is the end of everything. Everyone has to do it. Everyone has to either die or almost die. You know when people complain about Snyder's slow-mo? That is how this film plays out. Grab a Hobbit, look to the sky and shed a tear because everyone is experiencing the most poignant moment in the history of mankind, one after the other after the other.

Now this wouldn't be fine under any circumstance imo, but at the very least they could have spread this out with some actual plot work. It also does murder on the characters. Everyone other then Frodo, Gandalf, Gollum and Sam are reduced to caricatures, with Gimli, Legolas, Merry, Pip, and Eoywn getting the worst of it.

The battle itself just doesn't work like Helm's Deep does. With Helm's Deep they did a very good job of structuring the battle. You get a sense of progression, what is going on and what it means when each position is lost. Here, there is no focus. If Gandalf had been a general instead of simply a guy running around fighting with his sword, it would of had potential. After all it is set up to be a battle of generalship between the Witch-king and Gandalf, but that is ignored and the cgi creations just sort of go around hitting things.

I think nothing is worse though then what happens to Aragorn. He is almost sidelined, made anything but irrelevant. This is his ascension, but it is as if all of the important Aragorn bits ended up on the cutting room floor or the EE.

Also, so many of the important character moments are left for the EE in favor of the long, drawn out ending.

Then there are just the weird decisions. Legolas surfing, Denethor running a mile on fire just so he could fall a long ways, The Witch-king's promise to break Gandalf being completely ignored (and in the EE being terrible), whatever Aragorn is suppose to be doing with the troll, every Arwen scene.


I always found those to be "crowning achievement" awards, like the Oscar. Good job for the series type stuff.

A lot of the general public and movie goers would probably tell you RoTS is the best SW films, and that is probably after actually having seen SW and ESB. t:




Oh come. When the groups all go off in their separate directions with purpose and Aragorn sends his "brother" off, you have the end of a film. When Isengard falls and Helm's Deep saved, you have the end of a film.

There are storylines and agendas that presented and resolved before the end of each film.

I dont agree with any of this, but i respect your opinion. ROTK is my personal favorite LOTR film. It tugged at my heartstrings. lol

 

[redhawk23]

If you go back to Rings really only Lurz in FOTR and Elephant Man Goblin in ROTK was the only real seemingly best talking Goblins. Some Goblins you could tell had trouble talking and some people complained couldn't understand what they said. Maybe Jackson sees it as an aide in performance craft where Gollum didn't have such make up and prosthetic issues when talking but looked as good as any costume wearing goblin.

I'm sorry but Doug Jones spoke fluent Spanish while wearing this

and while walking around on stilts.

Oh and again, can Peter Jackson please explain exactly how makeup effects are somehow limited to the actor's eye line? Jones' eyes aren't that far apart.

Not to mention .

 

[craigdbfan]

I'm sorry but Doug Jones spoke fluent Spanish while wearing this

Spoiler

and walking around on stilts.

Doug Jones wasn't speaking Spanish. He was dubbed by a Spanish actor.

 

[Kane52630]

The complete Hobbit soundtrack came out, it sounds even better.

I was hoping for the full Misty Mountains song but I guess they never did it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The complete Hobbit soundtrack came out, it sounds even better.

I was hoping for the full Misty Mountains song but I guess they never did it.

What?!?!

I thought it came out on the 11th, or is it the 11th were you are at?

 

[Dugath]

So you have seen the movie then. How was the 3D and which Dwarf did you like best.

He did not say anything of the movie.. to me he was obviously talking about the book .

 

[redhawk23]

Doug Jones wasn't speaking Spanish. He was dubbed by a Spanish actor.

Hmm, well at the very least he got to use his own voice as as Abe in Hellboy 2 (the studio dubbed over his lines with an actor from Fraisier in the first one).

Dubbed or not, the point stands that prosthetics have nothing to do with bad voice work.

 

[Kane52630]

What?!?!

I thought it came out on the 11th, or is it the 11th were you are at?

It's the 11th somewhere.

But yeah it's just the same from the Standard Edition. Although Blunt the Knives was awesome to hear.

 

[HowardStark]

I'm sorry but Doug Jones spoke fluent Spanish while wearing this

and while walking around on stilts.

Oh and again, can Peter Jackson please explain exactly how makeup effects are somehow limited to the actor's eye line? Jones' eyes aren't that far apart.

Not to mention .

You are assuming that everyone in make up is as good as Jones which he is as rare talent and lets face it Deltoro builds these costumes meant for mouth uses and Jones talents. Jackson was making 3 films at once and it was a task to not tear the prostetics because of time delays. I am sure Deltoro had budgets I am just saying not everyone is A Jones and can use there mouth i acting.

 

[HowardStark]

Hmm, well at the very least he got to use his own voice as as Abe in Hellboy 2 (the studio dubbed over his lines with an actor from Fraisier in the first one).

Dubbed or not, the point stands that prosthetics have nothing to do with bad voice work.

Have you seen the movies and some of the mouths looked like they barely opened and the scene looked painful for the performer that had to use his mouth to push the fake mouth open enough.

Either way I am sure Jackson has not abandoned the whole Practical effects deal. I am sure he likely was thinking it would be easier on the actors and save on time. There is allot more talking things in the Hobbit Compared to LOTR.

 

[redhawk23]

Have you seen the movies and some of the mouths looked like they barely opened and the scene looked painful for the performer that had to use his mouth to push the fake mouth open enough.

Either way I am sure Jackson has not abandoned the whole Practical effects deal. I am sure he likely was thinking it would be easier on the actors and save on time. There is allot more talking things in the Hobbit Compared to LOTR.

I'm just saying overall the characters look a lot more solid. Cg should only be used where it needs to.

I mean if its a matter of the mouths, the used CG for the mouth on Mouth of Sauron to exaggerate his features, and that was just for an extended edition scene. No reason to bust out the mocap suits.

And as for the limitations of the performers, that's casting's problem.

 

[spidey-dude]

He did not say anything of the movie.. to me he was obviously talking about the book .

no I was talking about the movie, I went to a review screening yesterday

So you have seen the movie then. How was the 3D and which Dwarf did you like best.

the 3D was brilliant, I normally get a bit of double vision from 3D but it felt so natural I actually forgot it was in 3D (and they have 'cool' green branded Hobbit glasses)

For me I think Kili was the best, as his personality was on display the most other than Thorin, but all the Dwarves are great with what they are given

 

[redhawk23]

You are assuming that everyone in make up is as good as Jones which he is as rare talent and lets face it Deltoro builds these costumes meant for mouth uses and Jones talents. Jackson was making 3 films at once and it was a task to not tear the prostetics because of time delays. I am sure Deltoro had budgets I am just saying not everyone is A Jones and can use there mouth i acting.

There's also the matter that not everyone is as good at mocap as Andy Serkis.

 

[Marvolo]

It is a long, bloated film, that is also incomplete. I am going to forget the ridiculous, exhausting and repetitive last part of the film. I am just going to talk about the stuff before they get to Mount Doom.

Everything is the end of everything. Everyone has to do it. Everyone has to either die or almost die. You know when people complain about Snyder's slow-mo? That is how this film plays out. Grab a Hobbit, look to the sky and shed a tear because everyone is experiencing the most poignant moment in the history of mankind, one after the other after the other.

Now this wouldn't be fine under any circumstance imo, but at the very least they could have spread this out with some actual plot work. It also does murder on the characters. Everyone other then Frodo, Gandalf, Gollum and Sam are reduced to caricatures, with Gimli, Legolas, Merry, Pip, and Eoywn getting the worst of it.

The battle itself just doesn't work like Helm's Deep does. With Helm's Deep they did a very good job of structuring the battle. You get a sense of progression, what is going on and what it means when each position is lost. Here, there is no focus. If Gandalf had been a general instead of simply a guy running around fighting with his sword, it would of had potential. After all it is set up to be a battle of generalship between the Witch-king and Gandalf, but that is ignored and the cgi creations just sort of go around hitting things.

I think nothing is worse though then what happens to Aragorn. He is almost sidelined, made anything but irrelevant. This is his ascension, but it is as if all of the important Aragorn bits ended up on the cutting room floor or the EE.

Also, so many of the important character moments are left for the EE in favor of the long, drawn out ending.

Then there are just the weird decisions. Legolas surfing, Denethor running a mile on fire just so he could fall a long ways, The Witch-king's promise to break Gandalf being completely ignored (and in the EE being terrible), whatever Aragorn is suppose to be doing with the troll, every Arwen scene.


I always found those to be "crowning achievement" awards, like the Oscar. Good job for the series type stuff.

A lot of the general public and movie goers would probably tell you RoTS is the best SW films, and that is probably after actually having seen SW and ESB. t:




Oh come. When the groups all go off in their separate directions with purpose and Aragorn sends his "brother" off, you have the end of a film. When Isengard falls and Helm's Deep saved, you have the end of a film.

There are storylines and agendas that presented and resolved before the end of each film.

FOTR doesnt end. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are running after Merry and Pippin. TTT picks up only a day or two after with them literally running. Frodo and Sam are walking at the end of FOTR and low and behold they are doing the same at the beginning of TTT only a day or two later. They have accomplished nothing at the end of FOTR other than Frodo deciding to abandon and go on hid own with Sam. If you stopped there nothing would be resolved. There is no conclusion in FOTR or TTT. They may have been structured like singular films but the plot doesnt work as singular films. Nothing is resolved. Yeah they won at helms deep in TTT but they still have to ride for Isengard in ROTK and depose Saruman in ROTK. So the Saruman plot doesnt resolve until ROTK . Merry and Pippin's story isnt concluded in either FOTR nor TTT. They are kidnapped in FOTR leading to treebeard and Isengard which continues until they are returning to Rohan in ROTK. All the plot started in FOTR doesnt resolve until ROTK. Heck even Arwen's plot of her going to the grey haven's in TTT isnt resolved in that film. She is still on the road in ROTK gets her vision turns back and that leads to Narsil being reforged which leads to Aragorn going after the undead army. Everything from FOTR onwards leads to the conclusions in ROTK. They dont work as singular films and were never meant to. You cant just watch one and get a whole story. Aragorn's reluctance and doubt about being king doesnt resolve until ROTK. Saruman plot resolves in ROTK. Merry and Pippin resolve in ROTK. Frodo and Sam resolve in ROTK. Arwen's story resolves in ROTK. Everything is unresolved til ROTK.

And ROTK was never meant to be its own film. It was always meant as a conclusion to the whole story. It is that way in the book and Jackson makes it clear in the docs covering production that it is a conclusion with everything coming to a head.

 

[HowardStark]

Personally I think them ending In Journey makes since then them drifting down the river in Wine Barrels. I think thats where it was to end with 2 Films but since there is 3. My guess is Ending 2 Will be The Death Of Smaug and the 2 Armies of Dale of Lake Town Camping at Thorins Door Step is 2 and 3 I think best ending would be Eye Of Sauron Opens Up.

 

[rashad]

RT Consensus: Peter Jackson's return to Middle-earth is visually resplendent and features strong performances from Martin Freeman and Ian McKellen, but the film's deliberate pace robs the material of some of its majesty.

 

[Marvolo]

RT Consensus: Peter Jackson's return to Middle-earth is visually resplendent and features strong performances from Martin Freeman and Ian McKellen, but the film's deliberate pace robs the material of some of its majesty.

Deliberate pace? I guess it is referring to the non stop pace of the last half of the film, because the beginning is supposed to be in no hurry.

 

[CoolCadaver49]

"Deliberate" is a nicer way of saying "slow as molasses". Pacing is rarely a problem for me in movies though (unless things happen too fast)

 

[Marvolo]

"Deliberate" is a nicer way of saying "slow as molasses". Pacing is rarely a problem for me in movies though (unless things happen too fast)

Oh i thought deliberate meant fast paced as in it was deliberately moving with no indication of letting up

 

[HowardStark]

RT Consensus: Peter Jackson's return to Middle-earth is visually resplendent and features strong performances from Martin Freeman and Ian McKellen, but the film's deliberate pace robs the material of some of its majesty.

How fast is Peter Suppose to introduce 13 dwarfs and explain why they are there. 3 films gives Peter Time to pay homage to each of the 13 characters other then Gandalf and Bilbo. Fellowship started kinda slow as well but it was still a good film and lead into TTT which was amazing. Hobbit 2 with Smaug and Boen will be the best of the 3 movies. I say have patience and when all 3 films are done. Maybe it will be worth the slow beginning.

 

[TheWiseGuy487]

I watched Jeremy Jahns review of this film.

He does bring up some of the issues that other reviews have pointed out (the first hour is a little slow, the CG is more prevalent and a little more noticeable at parts, etc.), as well as others (Radagast the Brown's minimal screen time doesn't really add that much to the film).

However, he said that they don't bring down the film a whole lot, and that the last two hours are great. The cast (particularly Martin Freeman, Ian McKellan and Richard Armitage) is awesome. The soundtrack is awesome. He also really loved the "Riddles in the Dark" scene, so that's something to look forward to.

Basically, if you loved the Lord of the Rings, you will love this film.

 

[regwec]

You know what's awesome? The BBC radio production of LOTR. Robert Stevens as Aragorn was unsurpassable. *Flees to I-tunes*

 

[DarthSkywalker]

FOTR doesnt end. Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are running after Merry and Pippin. TTT picks up only a day or two after with them literally running. Frodo and Sam are walking at the end of FOTR and low and behold they are doing the same at the beginning of TTT only a day or two later. They have accomplished nothing at the end of FOTR other than Frodo deciding to abandon and go on hid own with Sam. If you stopped there nothing would be resolved. There is no conclusion in FOTR or TTT. They may have been structured like singular films but the plot doesnt work as singular films. Nothing is resolved. Yeah they won at helms deep in TTT but they still have to ride for Isengard in ROTK and depose Saruman in ROTK. So the Saruman plot doesnt resolve until ROTK . Merry and Pippin's story isnt concluded in either FOTR nor TTT. They are kidnapped in FOTR leading to treebeard and Isengard which continues until they are returning to Rohan in ROTK. All the plot started in FOTR doesnt resolve until ROTK. Heck even Arwen's plot of her going to the grey haven's in TTT isnt resolved in that film. She is still on the road in ROTK gets her vision turns back and that leads to Narsil being reforged which leads to Aragorn going after the undead army. Everything from FOTR onwards leads to the conclusions in ROTK. They dont work as singular films and were never meant to. You cant just watch one and get a whole story. Aragorn's reluctance and doubt about being king doesnt resolve until ROTK. Saruman plot resolves in ROTK. Merry and Pippin resolve in ROTK. Frodo and Sam resolve in ROTK. Arwen's story resolves in ROTK. Everything is unresolved til ROTK.

And ROTK was never meant to be its own film. It was always meant as a conclusion to the whole story. It is that way in the book and Jackson makes it clear in the docs covering production that it is a conclusion with everything coming to a head.

Four words. The Empire Strikes Back.

That you have plot threads still existing does not preclude a film from standing on its own. No, you aren't suppose to get the whole story, but you are suppose to get the story of that film. FOTR and TTT do just that. That the overarching problem is not solved is irrelevant.

Lets look at FOTR.

That last 30 mins is very much the climax of a film. The music, how the scenes are played, etc. That is the end of this tale. Hell Aragorn cuts off the head of the first movie's "Boss" character.

Just look at the title of the film. The Fellowship of the Ring. The film tells their tale and at the end said Fellowship no longer exist. Decisions are made, paths are chosen and our characters resolve to carry out missions. That the film is hitting its home stretch is apparent with the decay of the group. Gandalf is gone and Boromir is losing it. The ring is starting to win its game.

Frodo decision to continue on his own and eventually with Sam is the end of the Fellowship's tale. It also completes Frodo's arc for the film. Frodo never wanted the task. He took it reluctantly to start because Gandalf wouldn't, hell couldn't. At the council he has to accept because of the disaster that everyone else is. This is pure, honest acceptance. The last he will ever be able to make because TTT is where the ring starts working its magic on him, all the while having to look at what effect its burden has had on another (Gollum).

Aragorn's refusal to take the ring is also another character arc for the film coming to a close. He sees that he is not his ancestor. That that fear is gone.

That there is more to come does not negate this. That part of the tale is told, it is finished and wrapped up. Even ROTK is set up like this with Gondor and Denethor, it is just handle aimlessly and badly imo. Stuff like the horrible ignore Saruman moment or the randomness of Faramir/Eowyn celebration shot are another examples.

Look at the Harry Potter films. PoA and OoTP are great examples (and the two best films in the series aswell). Do they solve the overarching conflict of the series? No, but they tell full and complete stories on their own. You don't need all the information in one film, yes you gather different things over the series, but what is important to that film is emphasized and treated with more care.

One of the great effects of the merry-go-round of directors on the first five Potter films, is that each director had a distinct style, making the difference more apparent.

Jackson saying that doesn't help the matter. Just confirms my point. Not that ROTK is a horrible film. Far from it. But it is bloated, while being incomplete and doesn't touch the first two films.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Ian McKellen has prostate cancer.

"I've had prostate cancer for six or seven years," McKellen told the Daily Mirror tabloid. "When you have got it you monitor it and you have to be careful it doesn't spread. But if it is contained in the prostate it's no big deal."

"I am examined regularly and it's just contained, it's not spreading. I've not had any treatment."

http://todayentertainment.today.com...-mckellen-reveals-he-has-prostate-cancer?lite

 

[craigdbfan]

No.

I hope he stays healthy.