Official The Ultimates Thread

[Mogwai]

I just hope Loeb doesn't change the roster too much for his run. I really like the roster how it is now. Adding characters would be fine (that's the natural progression for the Ultimates), but don't take anybody out.

 

[Kahoot]

I just hope Loeb doesn't change the roster too much for his run. I really like the roster how it is now. Adding characters would be fine (that's the natural progression for the Ultimates), but don't take anybody out.

You say it's the natural progression for new members to join, but it's also the natural progression for old members to leave. Hulk, Thor, Giant-Man and The Black Widow have all gone according to Wikipedia. Surely Thor is back on the team now at the end of 12 and into 13, no? He might leave again because of what happened but he'll be missed if he does go. And the Hulk is back as well right?

I'd like to see Mahr Vehl become a full time mamber. I'd also like to see more of Captain Britain but that shouldn't happen.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Two things.


I do agree that it's not really the USA's place to meddle in a lot of world affairs,,,,but people like Kim Ill and North Korea having nukes is NOT good for anyone. It will make Iran want nukes even more, make Japan and South Korea want to go nuclear, cause china and the west to get antsy and really puts that whole area in a huge amount of danger.

Second, why are people *****ing about politics coming into a political comic? That's like asking people to refrain from talking about the situation in v for vendetta, and kinda misses the point of the whole comic and situations. It's MEANT to make you think and talk about this stuff. If you don't like it, don't read the comic or don't discuss it. Easy. Most people here have thought about their viewpoints, even if I don't always agree with them, and I don't want to be banned from discussing it because some guy can't understand how it figures into the discussion.

I don't know. It shouldn't really be anybody's place to say anybody should or should NOT have nukes. We just assume North Korea is going to be aggressive with their nukes. We believe that he holds a vendetta against other cultures, despite the fact he loves several American things, and other Western things. (James Bond, hard liquor, etc.) Now, if he was saying, "Hey, soon as we're done with these nukes, we're usin' em'," then I would fully agree with stopping him in his tracks. But making a slanted judgement that he WILL do it (no matter HOW likely it is) is fairly unfair. Though, I don't remember if the UN said he could or could not. Because then if THAT is the case, and NK was judged nuke-free, and they basically went against it with hostile maneuvers, then I would say that America should be on the ready, not the offensive. America has more than enough tech to remove a nuke launched even five hundred miles out of their water without detonating it, so I wouldn't be too worried.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

You say it's the natural progression for new members to join, but it's also the natural progression for old members to leave. Hulk, Thor, Giant-Man and The Black Widow have all gone according to Wikipedia. Surely Thor is back on the team now at the end of 12 and into 13, no? He might leave again because of what happened but he'll be missed if he does go. And the Hulk is back as well right?

I'd like to see Mahr Vehl become a full time mamber. I'd also like to see more of Captain Britain but that shouldn't happen.

Thor left before he was incarcerated, and I doubt AFTER the fact, he'll be rejoining. Maybe somewhere later on down the line, after SHIELD and America decide that maybe mobilizing a superhuman military around the world is a bad idea, and using superhuman assistance groups around the world would be a good idea, basically spreading Thor's message. Giant-Man probably will get pounded by Cap again, unless the Ultron robots do something about it, the Black Widow is probably dead, or in a prison somewhere, and the Hulk being back? I don't know. He's in America, if that's what you mean.

And I see Mahr-Vell not having a choice about joining. He's basically a prisoner at the moment.

 

[celldog]

I don't know. It shouldn't really be anybody's place to say anybody should or should NOT have nukes.

Oh yeah?? Do you believe in gun permits? I'm sure you do. Having nukes is not a "right". It's a privilege. One that must be earned by showing the world a track record of being stable, and to some degree, honorable. Once someone gets the nuke, there's nothing you can do about it. Can you imagine saying that about Hitler in 1939. Some things are right and wrong. Rougue countries with "wild card" dictators do not pass the stable or the sanity test and the world community should be able to have a say in it..



We just assume North Korea is going to be aggressive with their nukes.

And he hasn't made enuff threats in your opinion??:


We believe that he holds a vendetta against other cultures, despite the fact he loves several American things, and other Western things. (James Bond, hard liquor, etc.)


South Korea is standing by on red alert because the North Korean army has been acting more aggressively at the border. Also because he likes western things, he likes America??? LOLt: Look lady...that only shows him for the hypocrite he is! That's all! Sadam liked hollywood movies and blue jeans!! You think he loved the U.S. too??


Now, if he was saying, "Hey, soon as we're done with these nukes, we're usin' em'," then I would fully agree with stopping him in his tracks.


"As soon as Hitler says, "I'm gonna invade Poland", we shouldn't do anything to stop him before then..... even if everything he does points to that. Okay......that makes perfect sense.


But making a slanted judgement that he WILL do it (no matter HOW likely it is) is fairly unfair. Though, I don't remember if the UN said he could or could not.


Could not. Why do you think the U.N. is pissed off too??



Because then if THAT is the case, and NK was judged nuke-free, and they basically went against it with hostile maneuvers, then I would say that America should be on the ready, not the offensive. America has more than enough tech to remove a nuke launched even five hundred miles out of their water without detonating it, so I wouldn't be too worried.

Just get ready.

 

[Kahoot]

And I see Mahr-Vell not having a choice about joining. He's basically a prisoner at the moment.

He could just stay an Allie like Falcon who's not on the team but works for the government and will help out from time to time.

If Mahr Vehl joins up then Ms. Marvel could end up joining too.

 

[Eros]

Is it me or are the Ulimate version of the classic marvel character highly unlikeable. Every issue of the ultimates is like reading a issue of Civil war on steroids. I like the book and really enjoy it, but i really have a strong hatred for the Ultimates roster espeically Captain America and "Nick Fury".

 

[Darthphere]

Is it me or are the Ulimate version of the classic marvel character highly unlikeable. Every issue of the ultimates is like reading a issue of Civil war on steroids. I like the book and really enjoy it, but i really have a strong hatred for the Ultimates roster espeically Captain America and "Nick Fury".

Yeah, its a problem I have. Every memeber of the Ultimates is unlikeable in some manner. Cap is a dick, Giant Man is pathetic, Wasp is a ****e, Tony, is well Tony, Banner is even more pathetic than his 616 counterpart ever was, Nick Fury isnt Sam jackson. Hawkeye seems to be the only likeable dude and thats because he doesnt say or do much but has some badass scenes.

 

[Red]

I've always found Ultimate Thor and Tony quite likeable.

 

[chris moore]

Hawkeye would be likeable, if he didnt ***** so much about being distracted from shooting in combat. He's supposed to be this amazing archer, yet as soon as someone comes in over the radio he's like "christ shut up, you're throwing off my aim". Pretty sure he's gonna change big time now though...

 

[Horrorfan]

Damn cap and his morals! What a dick!

 

[yahman]

I don't know. It shouldn't really be anybody's place to say anybody should or should NOT have nukes. We just assume North Korea is going to be aggressive with their nukes. We believe that he holds a vendetta against other cultures, despite the fact he loves several American things, and other Western things. (James Bond, hard liquor, etc.) Now, if he was saying, "Hey, soon as we're done with these nukes, we're usin' em'," then I would fully agree with stopping him in his tracks. But making a slanted judgement that he WILL do it (no matter HOW likely it is) is fairly unfair. Though, I don't remember if the UN said he could or could not. Because then if THAT is the case, and NK was judged nuke-free, and they basically went against it with hostile maneuvers, then I would say that America should be on the ready, not the offensive. America has more than enough tech to remove a nuke launched even five hundred miles out of their water without detonating it, so I wouldn't be too worried.

Im under the impression that the U.S. are not afraid of Iran Nuking the U.S. but Israel, as it has clearly stated on various ocassions that it intends to destroy the Jewish faith when it has the ability to do so.

 

[yahman]

Thor left before he was incarcerated, and I doubt AFTER the fact, he'll be rejoining. Maybe somewhere later on down the line, after SHIELD and America decide that maybe mobilizing a superhuman military around the world is a bad idea, and using superhuman assistance groups around the world would be a good idea, basically spreading Thor's message. Giant-Man probably will get pounded by Cap again, unless the Ultron robots do something about it, the Black Widow is probably dead, or in a prison somewhere, and the Hulk being back? I don't know. He's in America, if that's what you mean.

And I see Mahr-Vell not having a choice about joining. He's basically a prisoner at the moment.

Ive seen pictures in Wizard of the new artists depiction of Thor (He had really small ears from what i could remember), IMO this a good indication that he is going to be in the next arc.

 

[iloveclones]

Im under the impression that the U.S. are not afraid of Iran Nuking the U.S. but Israel, as it has clearly stated on various ocassions that it intends to destroy the Jewish faith when it has the ability to do so.

The wider concern is that if North Korea starts an arms race, Japan and whole bunch of others will feel the need to join the arms race. Similiarly with Iran and the Middle East. And the more people making them, the more chances someone will use or sell them.

I have no problem with the US attempting to prevent any of these countries from obtaining this technology. It's in our self interest. (Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't thought it through that much.) Nor am I going to start digging a bomb shelter if they do. We'll just have to learn to live with it.

 

[Darthphere]

Damn cap and his morals! What a dick!

Excuse me:

 

[Horrorfan]

Excuse me:

Yeah I'm with you...no sarcasm!

He bullied Hank Pym. Pym was clearly used to fighting women, and totally unprepared for someone who a) can fight and b) was a guy. He basically took advantage of Hank.

What a dick.


He doesn't go into nightclubs and get drunk and have one night stands.

What a dick.


WTF was he and Nick Fury thinking, taking out an insane dictator's nukes that were a threat to the US? Who does he think he is saying that an insane dictator doesn't deserve nukes?

Yeesh, what a dick.


And finally, knocking out Banner..let's forget Banner chose to turn into the hulk and kill thousands...we all know no one has their own power of reason, ESPECIALLY criminals! It was society's fault, clearly. Society should be on trial not the criminals! And Cap just dropped him coldly.


Yeah, he's a dick.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Originally Posted by Mistress Gluon
I don't know. It shouldn't really be anybody's place to say anybody should or should NOT have nukes.

Oh yeah?? Do you believe in gun permits? I'm sure you do. Having nukes is not a "right". It's a privilege. One that must be earned by showing the world a track record of being stable, and to some degree, honorable. Once someone gets the nuke, there's nothing you can do about it. Can you imagine saying that about Hitler in 1939. Some things are right and wrong. Rougue countries with "wild card" dictators do not pass the stable or the sanity test and the world community should be able to have a say in it..



We just assume North Korea is going to be aggressive with their nukes.

And he hasn't made enuff threats in your opinion??:


We believe that he holds a vendetta against other cultures, despite the fact he loves several American things, and other Western things. (James Bond, hard liquor, etc.)


South Korea is standing by on red alert because the North Korean army has been acting more aggressively at the border. Also because he likes western things, he likes America??? LOLt: Look lady...that only shows him for the hypocrite he is! That's all! Sadam liked hollywood movies and blue jeans!! You think he loved the U.S. too??


Now, if he was saying, "Hey, soon as we're done with these nukes, we're usin' em'," then I would fully agree with stopping him in his tracks.


"As soon as Hitler says, "I'm gonna invade Poland", we shouldn't do anything to stop him before then..... even if everything he does points to that. Okay......that makes perfect sense.


But making a slanted judgement that he WILL do it (no matter HOW likely it is) is fairly unfair. Though, I don't remember if the UN said he could or could not.


Could not. Why do you think the U.N. is pissed off too??



Because then if THAT is the case, and NK was judged nuke-free, and they basically went against it with hostile maneuvers, then I would say that America should be on the ready, not the offensive. America has more than enough tech to remove a nuke launched even five hundred miles out of their water without detonating it, so I wouldn't be too worried.
Just get ready.

Having nukes is a priviledge? Distributed by whom? Americans? People the whole world thinks are far too aggressive? Well, in that case, since NK is presumed to be far too aggressive as well, American's shouldn't have nukes. There's no real permit for them, aside from the UN saying yes or no.

As for "wild card" leaders, you need not look any further than your OWN leader for idiots who shouldn't be trusted with weapons of mass destruction.

As for NK making several threats? Yeah, they threatened a nuclear war if America attacked first, which America has made several obviously aggressive stances against North Korea.

Saddam never attacked America, and really didn't seem to have any plans TO attack America. Yeah, you guys were worried he had high power weapons, which he didn't have. For all intent and purposes, the only time he REALLY was pissed with America, was when your leader told him to stand down, or be bombed.

And SK has ALWAYS been at red with their northern neighbors. It's not like that at some point in time, NK and SK have been friendly with each other. That's why there's a demilitarized zone in between them, that basically is upheld by I believe the UN, when other countries FORCED them to stop fighting with each other. And they've held huge patrols on both sides, waiting for an attack ever since that point in time. So I don't know why you think it's a recent thing.

And just because one doesn't love America, doesn't make them an enemy to America. Take for instance, I dislike several Americans. That doesn't make me a threat to the several Americans every time I'm around one. That's like saying you hate your neighbor, so you pose a threat to them.

Hitler didn't declare an attack on Poland. However, Poland was under weaponized, and that's why they fell. Inferior stock and population. Hardly the same situation. Especially when it would be more like Poland invading Germany with you two.

And NK pulled out of a treaty with the UN, they didn't violate a UN mandate.

And as for being ready? That's what I'm talking about. America IS ready for an attack. It's not like you're doing absolutely flat nothing about it. It's why you have a defense department, so you don't have to make idiotic decisions, and attack other countries. (Not that you've had a recent track record of great success with that, but still.)

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Im under the impression that the U.S. are not afraid of Iran Nuking the U.S. but Israel, as it has clearly stated on various ocassions that it intends to destroy the Jewish faith when it has the ability to do so.

Unfairly, the US probably will only do something about it, if it gets there. That's a declaration of aggression, and THAT'S what countries like America should focus on. Not countries that basically say, "If you attack us, you can guarantee we're nuking you."

Despite the fact America would like to stay out of affairs that do not deal with America, I think it would be just fine if America, with the UN, actually worked to improve the world.

 

[celldog]

Having nukes is a priviledge? Distributed by whom? Americans? People the whole world thinks are far too aggressive? Well, in that case, since NK is presumed to be far too aggressive as well, American's shouldn't have nukes. There's no real permit for them, aside from the UN saying yes or no.


You're serious aren't you?

As for "wild card" leaders, you need not look any further than your OWN leader for idiots who shouldn't be trusted with weapons of mass destruction.

Well, I haven't seen any mass graves over here or rape rooms or concentration camps either. No newspapers have been shut down by our gov't. Last time I checked our leaders' political enemies still call him an idiot and live to tell the tale. But you can find all of that kind of stuff in North Korea, Iran or previously in Iraq. So...I guess you can call them "wild cards".




As for NK making several threats? Yeah, they threatened a nuclear war if America attacked first, which America has made several obviously aggressive stances against North Korea.

What the freak has the U.S. done except say we want sanctions??? You see any ships over there! NK is threatening Japan!! A country with no military!! Yes ...we will bomb them into the stone-age if they shoot at us first! But what else would you suggest, if we're shot at??

Saddam never attacked America, and really didn't seem to have any plans TO attack America. Yeah, you guys were worried he had high power weapons, which he didn't have. For all intent and purposes, the only time he REALLY was pissed with America, was when your leader told him to stand down, or be bombed.


Not the same!! This idiot blew one up!!! So we know he's got 'em. What's your point?



And SK has ALWAYS been at red with their northern neighbors. It's not like that at some point in time, NK and SK have been friendly with each other. That's why there's a demilitarized zone in between them, that basically is upheld by I believe the UN, when other countries FORCED them to stop fighting with each other. And they've held huge patrols on both sides, waiting for an attack ever since that point in time. So I don't know why you think it's a recent thing.


They are now threatening Japan!! Is that enuff aggression for you?



And just because one doesn't love America, doesn't make them an enemy to America. Take for instance, I dislike several Americans. That doesn't make me a threat to the several Americans every time I'm around one. That's like saying you hate your neighbor, so you pose a threat to them.

Hitler didn't declare an attack on Poland. However, Poland was under weaponized, and that's why they fell. Inferior stock and population. Hardly the same situation. Especially when it would be more like Poland invading Germany with you two.

What??? You blame Poland for falling to Germany?? How about Mr. Hitler not invading his neighboring country in the first place???


And NK pulled out of a treaty with the UN, they didn't violate a UN mandate.

And as for being ready? That's what I'm talking about. America IS ready for an attack. It's not like you're doing absolutely flat nothing about it. It's why you have a defense department, so you don't have to make idiotic decisions, and attack other countries. (Not that you've had a recent track record of great success with that, but still.)

Yep we're ready. We'd be fools not to be.

 

[Horrorfan]

It's an incredibly sad day when someone tries to justify north korea having nukes...this is a guy who spent a ****load of money on getting nuclear weapons , despite the fact it would send the region into a panic, despite the fact EVERYONE , including their biggest ally, urged them not to, and despite the fact his country's people are starving to the point of eating rats and their own dead when he could have spent it on food or supplies.


It's a sign of rampant naiveity

 

[~†~§iX~†~]

However, this Cap is not a thug. Bully? Sure, to some extent. Anybody with large amounts of power is destined to become some form of bully or another. But I wouldn't say he's all out.

...

Ultimate Cap is a soldier. Pure and simple. Does what he's told, and holds up his moral beliefs. Not yours, definitely not mine, and not Tony Stark's or Thor's or anybody elses. Just his and his alone. Which is basically IDENTICAL to the moral structure of Cap in the 616, only Cap in the 616 will more frequently question his orders from time to time.

I agree with this almost completly, and the one thing that youdidn't mention that started my view of Cap this way (And what I find most interesting aspect of the character) os that he is a loyal American WW2 patriot, who has woken up in an America 50 years later that he doesn't like. But he's still Captain America, he's still a symbol of patriotism and he's still a soldier who has to take orders; so there isn't anything he can do about it. From this, I think these thugish/bullying acts are him getting his agression out over this in the only way he knows how!......

 

[celldog]

It's an incredibly sad day when someone tries to justify north korea having nukes...this is a guy who spent a ****load of money on getting nuclear weapons , despite the fact it would send the region into a panic, despite the fact EVERYONE , including their biggest ally, urged them not to, and despite the fact his country's people are starving to the point of eating rats and their own dead when he could have spent it on food or supplies.



It's a sign of rampant naiveity

Very much so.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Geez, I don't even know where to start. Guess any place is as good as any, right?

Quote:
You're serious aren't you?

Well, I haven't seen any mass graves over here or rape rooms or concentration camps either. No newspapers have been shut down by our gov't. Last time I checked our leaders' political enemies still call him an idiot and live to tell the tale. But you can find all of that kind of stuff in North Korea, Iran or previously in Iraq. So...I guess you can call them "wild cards".

I'm absolutely serious. Just because there aren't mass graves or rape rooms doesn't necessarily mean that you guys have the right to do anything. It just means you're more ethical than someone you're bombing needlessly. Unless what you're trying to say is that since you have the bombs, you should be able to run any country you want, any way you want, simply because you don't think they do things the right way.

What the freak has the U.S. done except say we want sanctions??? You see any ships over there! NK is threatening Japan!! A country with no military!! Yes ...we will bomb them into the stone-age if they shoot at us first! But what else would you suggest, if we're shot at??

You mean...bomb a middle eastern country? And then vocally exhibit that you have your guns set on another country? Not too much. Just minor declarations of war here and there.

And if you were SMART, then you would know that if NK bombed Japan, THEY would die too. A nuclear weapons fall out reaches HUNDREDS of miles from it's target.

However, they only threatened you guys if YOU shot them first. I never said YOU would, and I never said THEY would.

They are now threatening Japan!! Is that enuff aggression for you?

And also, no, they did not threaten Japan. This is what happened. Korea had a failed test, and Japan threatened sanctions on North Korea, who said they'd take that as an act of war. Not that North Korea outright threatned Japan. If you're going to use a threat like that, do NOT take it out of context.


What??? You blame Poland for falling to Germany?? How about Mr. Hitler not invading his neighboring country in the first place???

That's pretty funny, you know, how that ISN'T what I said at all. Not even a derivative of sound logic pulls that. Only craptacular "logic" gets that from what I said. Once again, pulled something (incorrectly) out of context.

Yep we're ready. We'd be fools not to be.

And of COURSE you're ready. That's what I'm saying you SHOULD be. The world doesn't develop very well when you have idiots telling other idiots what to do. (Case in point, stem cell research) The world progresses naturally all on it's own without big bad America to tell it what to do. IF they become a physical problem with the world, THEN you should react. IF they threaten, or test in coastal waters that do not belong to them, and are not international, THEN you should react. If you MAKE an assumption, then the entire WORLD will react the moment you decide to take them down. I can almost guarantee France itself will move to have America removed from the permanant board of security for the UN, and demand sanctions over it's weaponry, and dismantlement of nuclear weapons if they decide to make such a foolish move based on a dumb ass assumption. I'm suprised the world didn't ask for it when you invaded Iraq.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

It's an incredibly sad day when someone tries to justify north korea having nukes...this is a guy who spent a ****load of money on getting nuclear weapons , despite the fact it would send the region into a panic, despite the fact EVERYONE , including their biggest ally, urged them not to, and despite the fact his country's people are starving to the point of eating rats and their own dead when he could have spent it on food or supplies.


It's a sign of rampant naiveity

Actually, this is the sign (you two) of blatant knee jerk Americanism. Ever wonder why the entire world thinks America is filled to the brim with idiots? This is why. Because when someone has power to rival your own, that has a leader which is only two steps more unstable than your own ability to hold your own country together (which it's almost failing to do. Keep in mind America has the worst homeless rates out of all developed countries. And poverty. And overworked working class with lower wages than in comparison to the rest of the world) then you guys worry. You don't even TRY to worry about yourselves as much as you should. A governments job isn't to try and police a world, just it's borders, and keep it's own people fed and happy. But if you really gave a damn about those people, then you shouldn't worry about it's government getting nukes. You should worry about how your government wants to help them, not demolish them.


I swear, Americans think the ONLY way to solve a problem is to destroy it.

 

[The Question]

I swear, Americans think the ONLY way to solve a problem is to destroy it.

Not all Americans. But many. Sometimes, The U.S. government likes to fancy itself as Sparta. Great warriors who will never back down from a fight and will unleash holy vengence upon all those who cross them. Unfortunately, the U.S. government also often lacks the skill, courage, and sense of honor that the Spartans had.