Official The Ultimates Thread

[Darthphere]

I dont read the names of colorists or inkers...the pencils are the most important part of any art. And I dont need to know names to know I hate it. That's a stupid, stupid argument.

Debatable.

 

[El Bastardo]

I was holding off an answer until I had time to read Ultimates 3 #3. And I'm late in doing that because I forgot to, one, and have had a lot of other stuff to do. So, that said, the topic (not really a question, as it was a statement) I'm referring to is the idea that MAD apparently sucks at panel work.

It's been a long time since I've read a MAD-drawn comic (see? I'm giving you a perfect in to make some crack about his inability to make deadlines, or some such), sure. But I don't remember ever having had a problem following them - not the issue where Sabes guts Psylocke, or any of the Age of Apocalypse issues I own and remember. And that's from when I was younger and less knowledgeable about the medium. That kind of matters.

I'll have to look back at Ultimates 3 #1 and #2, just to be complete and thorough and correct, and all that, but just going off of #3, um, it's not like it's a bunch of sensationalist pencils and full-page or double-page spreads. There's one, and that's when Hawkeye opens fire on Wolverine. And there's one or two full-pagers. The rest of the pages are all broken down into a variety of panels, which the eyes can shift across and between incredibly easy, and be given a sense of direction and story. Even discounting Loeb's words, the panel work gives a sense of story and what's happening in the drawn scenes - which is a step above a number of other comics artists currently at work in the superhero industry.

But I, of course, am most undoubtedly wrong. Do tell me, please. My sense of identity hinges upon it.

 

[TromaFreak64]

on the bright side, it looks like the issues are gonna make it out on time..

I can't remember, after this arc is there another arc from Loeb in Ultimates 3 - like the structure of Ultimates 1 and 2... or are we going right to Ultimatum...?

 

[prince_dylan]

from what i've read, it seems like this will go right into "Ultimatum".

 

[squeekness]

I was holding off an answer until I had time to read Ultimates 3 #3. And I'm late in doing that because I forgot to, one, and have had a lot of other stuff to do. So, that said, the topic (not really a question, as it was a statement) I'm referring to is the idea that MAD apparently sucks at panel work.

It's been a long time since I've read a MAD-drawn comic (see? I'm giving you a perfect in to make some crack about his inability to make deadlines, or some such), sure. But I don't remember ever having had a problem following them - not the issue where Sabes guts Psylocke, or any of the Age of Apocalypse issues I own and remember. And that's from when I was younger and less knowledgeable about the medium. That kind of matters.

I'll have to look back at Ultimates 3 #1 and #2, just to be complete and thorough and correct, and all that, but just going off of #3, um, it's not like it's a bunch of sensationalist pencils and full-page or double-page spreads. There's one, and that's when Hawkeye opens fire on Wolverine. And there's one or two full-pagers. The rest of the pages are all broken down into a variety of panels, which the eyes can shift across and between incredibly easy, and be given a sense of direction and story. Even discounting Loeb's words, the panel work gives a sense of story and what's happening in the drawn scenes - which is a step above a number of other comics artists currently at work in the superhero industry.

But I, of course, am most undoubtedly wrong. Do tell me, please. My sense of identity hinges upon it.

I was late in reading this myself. I agree with you that Mad's art and panels are fine. I had no trouble following this. The difference in style is still a bit jarring after Hitch's perfection, but it's not enough to bother me.

 

[TromaFreak64]

apparently i spoke too soon as ultimates 3 hit a delay this week

 

[K4tzm4n]

In all honesty, I'm very disapointed with Ultimates 3. It's lost it's great feel. Sure, the artwork is amazing, but it doesnt make up for the one set dialogue coming from each character, forced action and cameo's....The feel of the first 2 were simply an amazing experience and now it's gone. Oh well, I guess I'll have to read their Fantastic Four arc...Which based on the first issue, is good.

 

[The Major]

The Ultimates died for me the moment Jeph Loeb was hired to write it.

I'll pick it up again when they put replace him with a writer who respects Millar's continuity and has the talent to keep the title relevant instead of a bad 90's Image clone.

Ed Brubaker or Joss Whedon are more suited for this title.

I'd love to know why Loeb got this job over them. Oh wait I know. Sales.

Only they probably could have sold just as much with Mad doing their art with a title that's popular since Millar made it a hot property.

Wonder if Ultimates will remain a hot property with Marvel after Loeb leaves? I doubt it.

 

[El Bastardo]

I don't think Joss Whedon has written a single thing that would give any evidence that he'd make a good writer following Millar.

What would that piece of writing be? Buffy? Angel? Serenity? Yes, those all scream Ultimates to me. Would it be his run on Astonishing that screams Ultimates? Doubtful. How about his run on Runaways that puts BKV to shame? (Yes, that's deliberate sarcasm.)

Whedon is so not an Ultimates writer.

Given their work on Ultimate Human thus far, I would have liked Warren Ellis and Cary Nord to follow Millar/Hitch. But then, Ultimates 3 isn't supposed quite be a continuation of Ultimates 1 and 2. It's basically been hyped as a prelude to Ultimatum, whatever that's going to do to the Ultimate universe.

So, whatever. But Whedon? Heavens no.

 

[The Major]

I don't think Joss Whedon has written a single thing that would give any evidence that he'd make a good writer following Millar.

What would that piece of writing be? Buffy? Angel? Serenity? Yes, those all scream Ultimates to me. Would it be his run on Astonishing that screams Ultimates? Doubtful. How about his run on Runaways that puts BKV to shame? (Yes, that's deliberate sarcasm.)

Whedon is so not an Ultimates writer.

Given their work on Ultimate Human thus far, I would have liked Warren Ellis and Cary Nord to follow Millar/Hitch. But then, Ultimates 3 isn't supposed quite be a continuation of Ultimates 1 and 2. It's basically been hyped as a prelude to Ultimatum, whatever that's going to do to the Ultimate universe.

So, whatever. But Whedon? Heavens no.

He'd be more suited to it then Loeb ever was. He has proven he can make realistic like comics with Buffy and Serenity, which are closer to reality then anything Loeb's written. They actually make you think, stories which can be subtle, great characterisation and are much better with mysteries.

BKV or Ellis would be great. Rucka's leaving DC they should have got him.

Marvel is full of writers who could keep Ultimates up in quality. Which is odd why they weren't hired for it. Did Marvel even ask other writers they employ before getting Loeb?

Marvel doesn't even need Ultimatum to rejuvinate the Ultimate line. All they need is to get solid writers and artists on Ultimate X-men and UFF.

If Ultimates 3 wasn't a direct continuation of Millar's run Loeb should have changed the title and not advertised it as a sequel.

The Ultimate universe canon/time line is now a mess thanks to Loeb. I pity the writers who have to clean up after he's left.

 

[El Bastardo]

Ultimates 1 and 2 were about a lot more than can be summed up in the simple word of "reality" or "realistic." And on that note, I wouldn't really call the Buffy comic realistic, nor the Serenity comics/world. Not to mention neither are remotely superhero-esque. Although, at least Serenity has something akin to the gritty feeling present in Ultimates 1 and 2.

And I'm not necessarily sure BKV would carry the torch, either. I haven't read everything BKV has written, so I could certainly be wrong, and he's not as much a one-trick pony as Whedon often is, so he could certainly change up his writing. I'm weighing the statement mostly on his writing of Ultimate X-Men which, while it was awesome, was nowhere near the style that would be in a Millar continuation of Ultimates 1 and 2.

But then, Loeb's Ultimates 3, again, is not meant as a straight continuation of Ultimates 1 and 2. Certain ties stretch between the books, but it's a different incarnation, and in that the title earns more leeway. Yes, yes, we can all whine and cry and whatever it is you want to do, about how the book should have done this, or could have done this, but it doesn't matter. Man, why can't more of you people be better English majors?

I just have to touch upon the line of Loeb changing the title's name. Okay. That would be an administrative/executive decision, not the writer's, one. Two, despite the fact that the Ultimates title exists as a group of maxi-series, it is nonetheless the same as an ongoing. This is no more than a change of a creative team. When Kirkman came onto Ultimate X-Men and started doing all his random and awful crap there, it wasn't like they were going to change that title's name. Why? Recognition, saleability, whatever else.

And, really, Loeb hasn't done anything to the Ultimate universe canon. He's messing with the Ultimates, yes. He hasn't trounced the X-Men or FF canon. Not yet, anyway. Marvel has plans for the Ultimate U, Loeb and Bendis are handling them, and while they are not the most awe-inspiring team, it remains to be seen whether it will turn out bad or not.

...I can't believe I just typed all this up.

 

[Blader5489]

He hasn't trounced the X-Men or FF canon. Not yet, anyway.

Did you miss the third issue?

 

[El Bastardo]

No, I didn't.

I'm pretty sure the third issue had nothing to do with the Fantastic Four. As far as it had to do with the X-Men, uh, it did something with dinosaurs in the Savage Land and that Logan had met Magneto prior to Magneto naming himself Magneto. More or less.

Yes, gosh, canon-wrecking, most definitely.

 

[Blader5489]

No, I didn't.

I'm pretty sure the third issue had nothing to do with the Fantastic Four. As far as it had to do with the X-Men, uh, it did something with dinosaurs in the Savage Land and that Logan had met Magneto prior to Magneto naming himself Magneto. More or less.

Yes, gosh, canon-wrecking, most definitely.

You said that Loeb hadn't "trounced" UXM canon. The latest issue was a giant (and pointless) retcon involving Ultimate Wolverine, Magneto, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch--all X-Men characters.

Which is why I asked if you had read the issue at all, because if you had, you wouldn't have made the erroneous claim that Loeb hasn't touched UXM continuity yet.

 

[El Bastardo]

How did you attempt to correct me and then make a mistake yourself?

I said trounced, not touched, as you so eloquently pointed out in the first place and then forgot by the end.

What came out of Ultimates 3 #3, which I pointed out in my previous post, is hardly a trouncing of the Ultimate X-canon. If it's pointless, fine, it's pointless. I'm not debating that, and I never made a claim that it was otherwise. Does it touch their backstory. Yes. Does it necessarily change anything Millar ever put forth? I don't think it does. Does it trounce the canon of the title? Short answer, no. Long answer, hardly. That answer is the long answer because, well, it has more letters, clearly.

Trounce does not equate to touch. Touched, yes. Trounced, no.

Trounced would be more of saying that Xavier and Magneto were never buddies back in the day, that that whole backstory never occurred. Or that Wolverine had indeed offed Xavier, which clearly never happened. That would be trounced.

 

[xisaacx]

Trounced would be more of saying that Xavier and Magneto were never buddies back in the day, that that whole backstory never occurred. Or that Wolverine had indeed offed Xavier, which clearly never happened. That would be trounced.

Havent tons of x men writers wrote it so it showed xavier and magneto as friends?

 

[Blader5489]

How did you attempt to correct me and then make a mistake yourself?

I didn't, you're just arguing semantics.

Touched, trounced...does it really matter? The bottom line is that Loeb has begun affecting UXM continuity, despite your initial claims to the contrary.

And when I said the retcon was "pointless," I was referring to it's relevance in an Ultimates book. I don't see how Wolverine sleeping with Magda or Magneto not remembering that affair (both of which are huge plot holes in of themselves) is at all pertinent to the Ultimates.

 

[El Bastardo]

Havent tons of x men writers wrote it so it showed xavier and magneto as friends?

Yes, which is why that would be Loeb trouncing it, were he to do such a thing. This is the difference between trouncing and touching, thank you.

I didn't, you're just arguing semantics.

Touched, trounced...does it really matter? The bottom line is that Loeb has begun affecting UXM continuity, despite your initial claims to the contrary.

And when I said the retcon was "pointless," I was referring to it's relevance in an Ultimates book. I don't see how Wolverine sleeping with Magda or Magneto not remembering that affair (both of which are huge plot holes in of themselves) is at all pertinent to the Ultimates.

Except it's not arguing semantics. It's not even arguing, considering the point you tried to make is incorrect on basis of what I originally wrote.

I never declared that Loeb hasn't touched UXM continuity. I replied to someone who called the Ultimate U continuity a mess, by stating that he has not trounced - which is to say, wrecked, which is to say, made a mess of; yes, here, I'm writing you a blueprint, if you will, of the floor plans that you may follow - UXM or UFF canon/continuity. He has not.

Your putting forth of whether the details Loeb revealed are pertinent or not, and your saying they are not, has nothing at all to do with anything at hand here. I haven't put forth whether they are or not. Again, not at hand here.

The point is, it's not making a mess of UXM continuity or canon. It doesn't trounce it, which is what I said. It does touch it, yes, but I never said it didn't, as it clearly does, and saying otherwise would be an affront to logic. But it does not trounce the canon, at all, which is to say, again, that it does not make a mess of it, as it ultimately touches a very, very, very minor and little piece of what Millar originally wrote, if it touches at all.

You know, you don't have to grasp at straws to try and make me look wrong, or something. My posts remain unaltered. "Touched," was never touched upon.

 

[MattXG]

I really thought the third issue was the best yet....


I was alittle nervous coming out of the first issue and the "suck it" line had me wondering on the second issue but the third issue was solid. Can't wait for 4.

 

[K4tzm4n]

This is just so "meh" so far. The characters are all one sided, they're trying to be too "mature" and "edgy" and they're throwing way too much in the plot...And it will most likely all be explained in a poor, rushed manner.

 

[K4tzm4n]

Gotta love the continuity as well...Cap has the skills to take down Hulk briefly, but has an even match up with Sabretooth. Don't get me wrong, I love Victor and I don't want to see him owned yet again, but in all honesty, Ult Cap should have demolished him.

 

[MattXG]

Gotta love the continuity as well...Cap has the skills to take down Hulk briefly, but has an even match up with Sabretooth. Don't get me wrong, I love Victor and I don't want to see him owned yet again, but in all honesty, Ult Cap should have demolished him.

Isn't that ALWAYS how it is in comics?

Besides, Cap taking down Hulk was Cap's finest fighting hour thus far in the Ultimate U.

You don't do your best every day.

Really why do you guys obsess over details that pointless?

 

[K4tzm4n]

Isn't that ALWAYS how it is in comics?

Besides, Cap taking down Hulk was Cap's finest fighting hour thus far in the Ultimate U.

You don't do your best every day.

Really why do you guys obsess over details that pointless?

Of course it always happens...I'm not obsessing, just pointing out. I'm glad he didnt dominate Creed (like I said before).

 

[cerealkiller182]

Also where Sabes lacks the pure strength of Hulk, hes been trained as a fighter

 

[K4tzm4n]

Also where Sabes lacks the pure strength of Hulk, hes been trained as a fighter

True. The fight really just seemed like both of them slashing each other...I'm surprised Cap wasnt injured after that....There's a pannel with Sabretooth digging his claws into Caps ribs.